[Bad LOD in Games | Juddering PC] Management Engine(Locked/Damaged) - Enhanced i/o issues

[naporitan]

phpBB [video]

Link - https://youtu.be/j9TgNFu1l3Y (in the comments below the video, the author shares his research, I recommend that you familiarize yourself.)

I would like to discuss this video.

[Moderator -- image replaced with video embed.]

[cursed-gamer]

Man WTF?

[dermodemon]

interesting. i wish i could disable PSP on my b450m pro4-f to test this

[naporitan]

interesting. i wish i could disable PSP on my b450m pro4-f to test this

You've got it all wrong. on the contrary, the subsystem must work otherwise you will remain in this universe. (to put it simply)

ApR6jK2eIUk.jpg (76.24 KiB) Viewed 1789 times

[phx]

Under the video in which the author indicated the problem for testing, it is clearly written.

If the "video enhancer" works, the picture will be smooth.
Without processing, you will see jerks.

Gaming monitors generally don't have "Motion Smoothing" technology because it adds input lag.
However, some high-Hz monitors do not support <48 Hz when connected via a display port, some can only do this via HDMI.

hdmi30hz

hdmi30.png (4.42 KiB) Viewed 1761 times

The interpolation method is the most advanced. The processor analyzes two adjacent frames and forms an intermediate one between them.
Which is why dynamic scenes can “freeze” or, conversely, “jerks”.

jerks2.png (417.88 KiB) Viewed 1761 times

24/48fps side-by-side comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ih7gOE4yew

[Z3CrosS]

Good day to all . Here will be my first and last post(i have no time and i moved long ago). I'm perfectly aware of that problem(all things i described in my videos, you should read my posts to my last video, will be no more videos).
I've decided to post here only because of Bruce fragment. It's difficult/advanced one footage which i'm thinking long about to include it in this last video or not, because i knew would be questions about it.

First: I perfectly aware that monitors doesn't support 29 fps videos. But if your subsystem would work, you will not see there Juddering mess. The main clue of that Bruce video footage is to show to people what is JUDDERING PC at first place and what they will get on these Pcs if their fps will drop at 55fps from 60fps with v-sync on.

Second one: Ok, PC it is a precise device yeah? Each frame is building by frame (60 fps it's 60 screenshots in one second). So ok, let we take for example a game with good Re engine: Resident Evil 4 Remake. You can enable there 6k resolution (if you have powerful PC) or 1440p if you have for example 1050ti video card and some i3 gen 14 cpu. That's needs for drop your fps from 60fps with v-sync on to about 48-53 fps - it is good for monitor yeah? Ok go to the village in Re4, and try to move camera (panocamera) at 48-52 fps. And i would like to see your "smooth" juddering-free camera at that FPS on a PC with these symptoms(without subsystem support - which provides enhanced i/o functions, Management Engine - it's pc inside your PC, for it, all devices are i/o even CPU itself, and PCH controls CPU). Further FPS will drop = bigger judders would be(because you have micro -judders even at native 60 hertz - 60fps, they are just blurry for you - image goes through stucked overlay all the time even mouse cursor too, it's too moving objects, that's why you have that sand-like feeling and more Mhz speed you add to mouse - mouse starts to become smoother but blurrier/wash out for your eyes, because it is too going all they time through this "overlay" which cause to all moving objects to start jittering, lower fps drops much noticeble jitters became and more these jitters starts to transform into real judders).

And last, i wanted to add. After you've read this. Try to rotate your browser window and look on this wall of text, and you will not only see that your text on your 1000 hz monitor start to wash out, but you will notice that text is going through defects - it's stucked / streched not operated "overlay" which persists on your whole monitor(it is actually only one problem of many on these PCs). This "blurry" it's not blurry it's micro-judders all the way, but for you it's blurry, but if your fps would go down, even will drop at 55 fps from 60 fps, you will start to notice judders for real with pano. As i said PC is a precise device, it's not TV or not video camera, picture is building from frames. And this is not monitor issue, 60 hertz or 1000 hertz, these defects will be on any monitors, because it is an issue with PC i/o functions, incorrect image output.


---------------Test on Juddering / Examples how it should be or not should be
https://testufo.com/framerates-versus#p ... =1&kiosk=1 - here is 48 fps fair test. The main difference between Bruce test and this Testufo Dota2 versus test: Bruce it's a pre-rendered footage and dota2 versus its real time PC/any smart Device rendering test. This is perfect test by Testufo which will test your PC and will never lie. Why? for example prerendered Bruce footage test could be very smooth on Plasma/Oled, but if you Run this Testufo Dota2 on Plasma or other TV/monitor will be 100% Judders on these PCs, and that's why it is nevermind 60hz TV with interpolation or 500hz monitor. This is how your PC provides video output to your Monitor. Same you will have in a game with lower FPS than 60fps with v-sync ON. On bottom video your image is smooth, but "blurry", but its not blurry, motion is going trough "overlay" - and your eyes cannot focus. It's same jitters, just micro-jitters same as with moving text.
Run this test on your phone/smart tv(render must be provide by ARM cpu of TV), and you will see not only how PC must operate(give correct video output to monitor), but that your phone gives stable image(stutters yes but no judders) as it should be on PC and overall that phone operates better than this PC.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1cyvwwItQ_0 - Here is an exact example how top picture must look on your PC on this test(no judders, just slightly slow image). This was rendered by hardware of Iphone XR and recorded. This is how PC must render and output 48 fps real time picture on your monitor(same will be in games).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-qUDtWlC8 - here is an example how top picture NEVER should look on PC. Recorded via Shadowplay (2600k, 1600 ram, 1080ti). That's why your aim(camera) is always different and bad. Because PC's video output is falling apart, because whole picture goes through "overlay" and it's very complex thing, it's not just video resolution/overlay(i just calling this that for better understanding), it's dynamic scaling which provides by stucked/stopped "cylinder"(actually not even a cylinder it's whole powerful mini car inside your car which operates on a complex software) inside PC which freezed in one position all the time. That's why people start to get tired very fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8j5O35LFhU&t=6216s - Re4re - this is example how game must look at 35-55 on a 101% correct PC. As you can see here, my game itself start just to SLOW MO, but there is no/zero Judders at Pano or any image defects. All night segment on my 2600k + 1600mhz Ram + 1080ti - is between 35-55 fps, especially cabin fight(pc is connected whole life through two cheap AC splitters, one i changed 4 years ago for plazma TV and stands in a small room in a closet, so i'm silence about static there).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sdCph4TCIU <- for electricity guys.

This Re4re Footage/game was recorded at 60 hertz/fps v-sync. AOC Q3279vwfd8 IPS . But it's no matter has you Freesync or G-sync if your PC works with locked subsystem, this stucked "overlay" never gives you G-sync experience and no matter 60 hertz or 500 hertz, you will always have judders/desync "blurry text in-montion", because again, your whole image is going through stucked & stretched "overlay"(which must operate dynamicly), and problem here only with an incorrect PC video output <-that's why i put Bruce footage to show what is Juddering PC.

https://youtu.be/LdXYsEYOfUE?si=QlF_GZf6aKd1sTLp&t=141 - Another Example of 35-55fps. PS3 Emulator - Heavenly Sword - 2600k 1600mhz Ram - 1080ti. No judders, not desync Audio. Perfect & stable image.
https://youtu.be/y-aBmI46aH4?si=4ZncAacyRYpn_TPj&t=322 - Dota2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9KHcIfuCkQ - World of Warcraft

Starcraft 2 Coop:
https://youtu.be/wNjYleJCsR8?si=lUqntVUuAoKF0trl&t=144 - synced video output from PC
https://youtu.be/wNjYleJCsR8?si=pDjbbydoLbdsSndV&t=90 - desync video output from PC

https://youtu.be/PnbAVf_61ew?si=e8oEVhybS4i4ZV5x&t=41 - COUNTER STRIKE 2 - 101% PC -> Here you see 3 things: 1st - Awesome in-game LOD, 2nd - stybilized & smooth picture = 3rd - smooth camera(Aim). - this footage was found by S1ned - thank you.


---------------Examples of stabylized picture (smooth camera <-> aim) in fps games (2600k + 1600mhz ram + logitech bluetooth M170 mouse 130mhz):
This camera(aim) you are looking for:
https://youtu.be/ggH25FGieDw?si=x-O8oPg_PdEnbOBs&t=6727 - Resident Evil Village (watch whole Dimitrescu fight)
https://youtu.be/rWqcSZNTh2k?si=pdki7P4wO6wy4EGw&t=428 - Team Fortress 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nqRrn9eAcY&t=427s - Serious Sam 4
https://youtu.be/6nqRrn9eAcY?si=C3r-rOtuvU6qPEhn&t=893 - Serious Sam 4
https://youtu.be/6nqRrn9eAcY?si=3j0bLEwuqnHjToDC&t=1031 - Serious Sam 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3qgUN6NTn8&t=169s - Battlefield 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay7nDuWMT9w&t=628s - Doom Eternal
https://youtu.be/Y5zRX6YKrJ8?si=f4RtziBMaKTgrXO1&t=373 - Unreal Tournament 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsT3KnKJeNM&t=183s - Overwatch
https://youtu.be/YZOEsoyf-BA?si=oKJprNxTUKzEYMqx&t=5 - Quake 3 Arena
https://youtu.be/07JQg9W6yEc?si=tI6sCFVo5aXIXuLi&t=16 - Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 Remastered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7E2OFv8rXU - Resident Evil Village - Another Full Fast Dimitrescu Fight (AMV)

---------------Examples of quality picture. Run this examples on PC, and after on your Phone and Smart TV and see where is better image quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMPdACE3WM&t=31994s - Horizon Zero Dawn
https://youtu.be/5NHtZwNsjzk?si=ubgMqz5 ... DE&t=30226 - God of War 2018
https://youtu.be/tMold6VPq3M?si=NyelsKvM9iA2OBHC&t=163 - Flower
https://youtu.be/-r-YAPWe_kc?si=x-0lu9bgY0tKjWjv&t=50 - Forza Horizon 4
https://youtu.be/24qBsSB6A-w?si=mb3dlj3-zEsOXPZB - Dirt 2.0
https://youtu.be/PbUs9X7MzzQ?si=aXJ2bVoWPdxMd2YS&t=3694 - Mafia Defenitive Edition

P.s do you think this stucked "overlay" gives you just only judders? Nope,this stucked "overlay" is about 720p and this scaling renders your GPU,that's why GPU load is a joke (about 30%-40% lower power load), that's why you have Bad LOD in games (blurry, slightly streched objects) becasue PC has incorrect scaling within video Resolution(stopped subsystem, but you want this magic to work at it full operating state <- Management Engine of PC -> all my 4 months work was only to bring it back) - this you see when you move text.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBLbyXVoeN0 - Wrong GPU Load

The major/crucial issue is a visual issue: picture on these systems is falling apart even at native hertz/fps - all moving objects are blurry in motion - microjitters, but eyes sees just a blurry-motion, but not, it's a microjitters, but if fps starts to drop -> more your eyes will start to noticing this jitters as juddering. It's stucked overlay which has lower scaling than 1080p (around 720p, even static image/desktop is in a slightly wrong scaling - this 720p scaling renders GPU and that's why you have bad lod in games & gpu is much colder). This micro jitters - judders directly affects camera movement in games (aim in shooters) and your eyes, that's why you have innacurate panocamera(aim), mouse/camera always feels different(not stable), sand-like mouse cursor is "sandy" because it's too going all they time through this "overlay". That's why many people complains that they start to get tired very fast, got bad mood after and feel not confortable overall - some kind of headache. - Because eyes renders these defects all the time.
Here is a metaphor: Let we take a car, let we stop one cylinder and car with stopped/malfunctioning cylinder will start to judders all the time - it's juddering car, but will operate stable - incorrect. And no one will ever decide to heal stopped/malfunctioning cylinder with great gasoline. Here is the very same happens with PC.

Hint: i perfectly aware how all this feels, so i give a hint: if i were you, i would start the road of real fix for this issue by going to official Microsoft office and ask them politely how can i truly license my hardware, by describing all my pc inconveniences. Plus you can try to speak politely with CPU manufacturer(if you have warranty), maybe they can provide you with some information. And you have to be 101% sure when you are buying new hardware, hardware must be 100% new and trusted vendors must give rock warranty on return.

P.s. If you have same inconveniences on your system, without any spendings you can try to: disable(NOT delete) secure boot, TPM, disable fast boot in bios(on some versions of bioses system operates much better) & Windows, in PCIE slots plug only GPU (try to remove PCIE m2.ssd), use CMS windows installations, no ARGB controllers(make minimalistic setup), install Win and games on sata SSD, never install Chipset drivers(they don't work anyway), disable hpet - all of these is to exclude any unnecessary conflicts. In addition you have to increase Page file in windows (google it). With that you should have much stable operating PC which will mitigate this issue as much as possible.


-----------------------PS---------------------
This wall of text, to see this wall of text, stars must standed in one position, to teleport one man (who lived 12 years in another galaxy) to different galaxy. Man who not only seen exact moment which destroyed this system, who managed to see 4 triggers, but wanted so much to bring this magic back(because after that my PC was swapped). This videos & posts are made not for me, not for views, not for proving, not for holy war, not for compromise corporations. It's made for you, for people to understand what is real happens with PC, because i know some people even broke up with girlfreinds(ofcourse any girl would'nt date a man with bad mood who is going with Irons whole day & all in searching for good electricity, she will watch on this and understand that all here is clear), some broke up with friends and etc. For me here all is clear like a day. I provided all test-benchamarks (especially here testufo dota2) not for proving to someone somethin, it is just for people to how ROCK test PC and overall for understand the nature:

Nature: At each PC start, before bios image, happens magic - subsystem check all its modules / software / signed codes / certificates. All must be precise, there is no zero room for mistake, all must be passed <- if all criteria fullfield subsystem will be activated. Subsystem it's your PC within PC. It's atomic size level City in your PC <- this magic i wanted so much to bring back, not to disable as people or companies wants, i want to return it, and i've managed to did it twice and broke 4 times overall . I hadn't nothing to lose, i wanted to understand what is happening, why fonts changed, bad scaling, judders, why my games became blurry, lower GPU wattage, even CPU became colder without perfomance degragation at all(but he lost at 400mhz overcloack ability) and why PC operate stable, but stable - incorrect and passes all benchmarks. So about triggers:

4 Triggers:
1. Ram: sightly pulled stick of ram from first slot top its side started my road - was a JACKPOT. Two times booted PC, each time after 3 sec pc shutted down. it was not mechanical damage, software. ME reserves ram for itself from first slot top side. And it was ME who shutted PC down after 3 sec. At windows startup after 3-4 sec instead of fast flash i got black bars - subsystem failed. And i teleported to this galaxy. 10 new windows installation gave nothing. Bought very random 2120 all magic returned. - It was first trigger which showed three things to me: 1st that Motherboard wrote configuration inside, 2nd - at PC startup happens magic, 3rd - Windows has some authorized access to subsystem(and everything on your PC) via HECI (interface) driver. Chipset drivers it is a road/path.
2. SSD swap: so random i3 2120 which i bought from dirty basement returned magic. I though of buying another 2600k, but wanted to see what will be if i swap SSD's with preinstalled Windows. So i plug in installed windows ssd in the same sata and ran preinstalled windows(which was installed few days ago via 2600k). I understood risk, so i booted this windows on i3 2120. All good, but fast flash appeared not after 3 sec after windows startup but after 15 sec. Desktop started to stutter and i saw that Intel Corp. something installing at 90% (ethernet cable was off). After i restated all returned in a bad way. Any other 5 CPUs which i bring, they are all operated not as should. And i realized that i *ucked up system. It's locked. <- This trigger showed me that system recognize OS violation - OS duplicate, what is duplicate? when you install legit OS, board remembers it. If you put out ssd disk, and install OS again, system wrote new configuration, and if you bring back "old" OS back in the same sata, for system it will be Wrong OS, not her OS (even it was installed on same system) - this is dublicate.
3. Incorrect/wrong windows installation -> break the license agreement: i bought Asus Z77 MVE from a very pedant man, this board saw only 3770k and condition of board is a brand new. I placed all my hardware (2600k), installed same windows Retail for my Region, installed chipset drivers, restarted and i immediately recognize CMD popup at windows startup (equivalent of fast flash ASrock Z68 Extreme7). And all was great. Made 4 restarts, CMD pops window remains. And i understood that YES, i did it! So i connected ethernet and start to update Win7. Two hours all was great, installing updates, restartin all great, but after some another update, CMD disapeared and all became wrong again. Here, i realized and remembered that my Win7 Retail was bound to Asrock Z68 because i took a gift from Microsoft - free lifetime update to Win10 in an exchange of that my Windows 7 Retail-key will be bound forever to this motherboard(Asrock z68). So there is a big possibility, that Windows updated "wrong" configuration(because Key was bound to another Board). So i broke another system again. Another 4 cpus which i bought for MVE not operated as intended (even 3770k). This trigger showed me that you have to install ONLY correct/legit Windows, and Windows must be only Genuine Retail for your Region.
4. SSD swap Mac Mini: Very same as 2nd trigger, but with Mac mini 2012 i'm not changed CPU, i just wanted to place new SSD with bigger storage. Installed new ssd, Mac started to install Mavericks from Apple servers, installed, all great. But Mac don't want to update Maverics to newer OS. So i decide ok, nevermind, i took of that ssd, and just placed back old original SSD with original OS installed looong ago by same Mac(which i operated all the time). And all these symptomes i have now on my mac mini 2012 (plus boot time increased at 20 sec before apple logo appears).
5. it's just a bonus: i've manage to "boot" subsystem from Windows via GTAV. I ran GTAV which was preinstalled on 101% system long ago. I came into game, and i noticed WOAW, i see this perfect shiny crispy image, oh how i missed you. But! i had huge stutters there, each 5 sec i has 1 sec stutter. I decided to restart game. After i restarted, no crisp image, all "grey/blurry" again. This was last time i saw this magic

Now i want to conclude and want to point: all i broke by myself, i never wanted to hack, i just wanted so much to return it, i have zero claims to Corporations and on the contrary i express to them my big thanks that i had 12 years magic machine (which could run any 2023y AAA games flawlessly with maximum quality) and didn't realize that i was a happy man. You have to understand that main purpose of ME it's security business, it guards your hardware from faults, that's why no one experiencing Blue Screens no more(it's defence user from user), and that's why you have to do things right from start if you want this magic to operate.
For you, i would like to notice that subsystem could be in different states: Not activated yet (when you are buyin new hardware - waiting a key), locked or damaged and the best state is unlocked - enabled <- correct key/new perfect condition hardware.
Could Legit Genuine Retail "unlock" old system, i think not, because RMA service gave me thier Asrock Z68 Extreme7 + 2600k + Ram (dublicate) and i installed my Retail from DVD disk without internet + chipset drivers, restarted and nothing happened. That's why i always advise to do things right from start: to buy 100% retail Windows for your Region (installation must be 100% flawless from licensed usb stick from Retail box and Power shell must show you Retail channel), and very crucial to buy only 100% new hardware(CPU boxed) from vendors which gives you Rock warranty.

//Want to double again\\\
if i were you, if for you PC matters, i would start the road of real fix for this issue by going to official Microsoft office and ask them politely how can i truly license my hardware, by describing all my pc inconveniences. Plus you can try to speak politely with CPU manufacturer(if you have warranty), maybe they can provide you with some information. And you have to be 101% sure when you are buying new hardware, hardware must be 100% new and trusted vendors must give rock warranty on return.

Cheers to all

[delve]

there are some companies that offer PCs with disabled intel me, wondering if this could help or make things worse.

[dervu]

So it is enough to tell by comparing GPU load if you have this issue?

[cursed-gamer]

My GPU load was wrong on GTX 1660, RTX 2060 and RTX 3060.

[MeveSPB]

Yesterday I watched all the author's videos and read all the comments.
This is all very interesting, but it is not clear to me how the author made a general conclusion from private observations that the reason is the correct combination of components CPU +PCH +INTEL ME + Windows retail.

I want to understand why such a conclusion was made?

Two systems are compared, one of which is perfect, the other is not. What does this mean? Not all computers display games in the same way — this is a fact that is 100% displayed in the video.

If we think further, these two systems are not identical, can we fairly find the reason for their incorrect operation? In one of the comments there was information that the theory was tested on 50 PCs, and somewhere the problem surfaced, somewhere not.
How can we say that this statistic gives us the right to draw an unambiguous conclusion? What exactly was evaluated, were they 50 identical systems or different ones?

How fair is it to compare systems with different bios settings (in particular voltage, etc.)?
Maybe it just so happened that on one of the systems, by a happy coincidence, everything worked as it should, but on the other system, the default values did not fit?
Are there such standards, and how adequate are they?
Since the issue of settings has not been raised, I assume that the author considers it not entirely significant. There is no answer to the question "why is this happening", but there is an answer to the question "how to avoid it" - it's luck.

1) First you have to win the "silicon lottery" - CPU+motherboard
2) You should also be lucky with the proper operation of the Engine Managment drivers.
3) You have one attempt not to break INTEL ME. If one of the system bundles is bad, it will ruin the whole system, without rolling back
4) Windows can break your Intel ME work, which is also not treatable.



The most interesting thing is how could it happen that there was a perfect system, but then it broke down due to a change of equipment (RAM and like a hard drive?).
Can a hardware change really break something in this INTEL ME black horse?


Correct me if something was misunderstood.
My folders are shaking, and I see image breaks on the video with Bruce (240Hz monitor), I have problems with PCI drivers, Management Engine, I/O (It starts only after removing devices -does MSI tech support say? that this is normal)/
I have new expensive hardware, Windows is really off, but am I still a loser?