[Ethernet Onboard-vs-USB-vs-PCIe] I finally found the reason behind my input lag after 6 years

[daviddave1]

Yes, yes, yes, totally agree with you here. Found a friend with a msi Z390 having the i219-v chip, so i asked him (without any previous explanation) to unplug his ethernet cable and see if there is a difference in mouse feeling... guess what? Yep he was losing his mind, as i personally felt on my rig, he felt the same on his; huge difference in mouse movements

I bought a bunch of PCie to ethernet card and one USB-C to ethernet here are my findings :

2nd card : chip : Realtek 8111H : Now this one is a very very good surprise, it was super stable and seems like it handles small packets very well making it a superb chip for competitive online gaming. I got 2ms less ping overall on every servers on it was a VERY stable card.


4th is a USB-C to Ethernet : chip : REALTEK 8153 . I don't know what dark magic went into this one but as soon as i started testing my ping was 3ms lower on every server and it never, lowest amounts of jitter in download / uploads between all the cards. Never seen such a stable chip. My download speed was 2mbp/s slower than on the other cards but i will take it everyday for the stability it provides.

Which adapter and which driver did you use with your RTL8153?
I've recently got Lenovo USB Ethernet adapter with the HWID of USB\VID_17EF&PID_7205&REV_3000 on the 10.54.20.608 driver and It's very lackluster in terms of features and speed.
The adapter doesn't even do a gigabit, at least according to waveform's bufferbloat test (I've seen some slight 184mbps upload spikes, perhaps I've got a dud?)
The adapter doesn't seem to support any kind of interrupt moderation settings, let alone adjusting transmit/receive buffers, RSS etc.

If your adapter behaves similar to my experiences, I don't see a reason to recommend it at all.

The 8111H, however, does support interrupt moderation and is ~2015-16 era. I'm assuming it suffers from the RSS table issue the 8125B does.

UPDATE: 02/2024 - Check below for more information

In general, if anyone sees this, I'd recommend the following LAN chips (listed by speeds)

1GbE → Intel I210-T1, Intel I210-AT, I211-AT, I340, I350 (i217, i218, i219 should be fine too, depending on Windows version)

2.5GbE → 8125B (NOTE: don't get the PCIe adapter version of it, only use it if it's on-board.) (2.5GbE Intel can work too, check below)

10GbE → Aquantia AQC107, Intel X520, X540, X550, Intel X710-T2L, Mellanox or Solarflare NICs (such as the SFN8522, with "sub-microsecond TCP and UDP latency", requires Windows Server however or might not work with Windows entirely)
There are a few LGA1700 mobos which feature the Aquantia AQC113CS, no info on it as the date of writing.

Preferably stick to x1 and x4 PCI-E cards, as a x8 add-on card would gimp the GPU lanes.


UPDATE 02/2024: NOT AN ISSUE ANYMORE FOR 2.5GBE REALTEK, FIX FOUND BELOW
A issue this adapter, found by tharos:

RSS off, NIC assigned to core1. yet, ndis.sys DPCs stay on core0. only ISRs move to core1.
While RSS on, NIC not assigned will only spread the DPCs over the rssq cores while ISRs stay on core0
in addition RSS on realtek seems fundamentally ducked as it sometimes just breaks with reboot or nic restart

To adjust core affinities & RSS, you do the following: (thanks to Timecard, Amit, JerkoTAi, Duckling, calc and others)

For the 8125B & 8111H [steps for this are the same except driver] (fixing RSS and core affinities in particular):

Download this driver (for 8125B)
https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zo ... s-software (in particular, the Win10 Auto Installation Program (NDIS)
In windows, it's shown as
Driver Date: 11/21/2023
Driver Version: 10.69.1121.2023

- Change limit from MSIUtil from 1 to 4
- Gointerruptpolicy - set "Realtek PCIe GbE Family Controller" from "IrqAllCloseProcessor" to "IrqPolicySpreadMessagesAcrossAllprocessors" or "irqPolicySpecifiedProcessors"
- RSS on, which you do by going in Control Panel\Network and Internet\Network Connections\ and right-clicking the adapter, pressing Properties => Configure => Advanced and turning on "Receive Side Scaling"
- Queues to 2
- RSSBaseProcessor on 2 in registry (this in particular)

For the i225/i226, look at this

To change affinities and make them stick for other 1GbE Intel NICS (i217. i218, i219 in particular):
- Disable RSS if you're using older nic driver
- Set rssqueue to 1
- Set rssbaseprocessor to whatever core u want

UPDATE 02/2024 - Tried 8156b (USB-to-Ethernet adapter) using ASmedia controller
test scenario: bufferbloat test (probably overkill but was easiest to do, yes ik its tcp)

UPLOAD
Total = 25970 for module asmtxhci.sys
Elapsed Time, > 0 usecs AND <= 1 usecs, 24257, or 93.40%
Elapsed Time, > 1 usecs AND <= 2 usecs, 1666, or 6.42%
Elapsed Time, > 2 usecs AND <= 4 usecs, 26, or 0.10%
Elapsed Time, > 4 usecs AND <= 8 usecs, 7, or 0.03%
Elapsed Time, > 8 usecs AND <= 16 usecs, 12, or 0.05%
Elapsed Time, > 16 usecs AND <= 32 usecs, 2, or 0.01%
Total, 25970

Total = 199 for module ndis.sys
Elapsed Time, > 0 usecs AND <= 1 usecs, 176, or 88.44%
Elapsed Time, > 1 usecs AND <= 2 usecs, 1, or 0.50%
Elapsed Time, > 2 usecs AND <= 4 usecs, 6, or 3.02%
Elapsed Time, > 4 usecs AND <= 8 usecs, 0, or 0.00%
Elapsed Time, > 8 usecs AND <= 16 usecs, 0, or 0.00%
Elapsed Time, > 16 usecs AND <= 32 usecs, 5, or 2.51%
Elapsed Time, > 32 usecs AND <= 64 usecs, 8, or 4.02%
Elapsed Time, > 64 usecs AND <= 128 usecs, 3, or 1.51%
Total, 199

ISR
Total = 25970 for module asmtxhci.sys
Elapsed Time, > 0 usecs AND <= 1 usecs, 25887, or 99.68%
Elapsed Time, > 1 usecs AND <= 2 usecs, 59, or 0.23%
Elapsed Time, > 2 usecs AND <= 4 usecs, 13, or 0.05%
Elapsed Time, > 4 usecs AND <= 8 usecs, 10, or 0.04%
Elapsed Time, > 8 usecs AND <= 16 usecs, 1, or 0.00%
Total, 25970

DPC
Total = 1 for module asmthub3.sys
Elapsed Time, > 0 usecs AND <= 1 usecs, 0, or 0.00%
Elapsed Time, > 1 usecs AND <= 2 usecs, 1, or 100.00%
Total, 1

DOWNLOAD
DPC
Total = 57961 for module asmtxhci.sys
Elapsed Time, > 0 usecs AND <= 1 usecs, 57570, or 99.33%
Elapsed Time, > 1 usecs AND <= 2 usecs, 328, or 0.57%
Elapsed Time, > 2 usecs AND <= 4 usecs, 29, or 0.05%
Elapsed Time, > 4 usecs AND <= 8 usecs, 11, or 0.02%
Elapsed Time, > 8 usecs AND <= 16 usecs, 16, or 0.03%
Elapsed Time, > 16 usecs AND <= 32 usecs, 6, or 0.01%
Elapsed Time, > 32 usecs AND <= 64 usecs, 1, or 0.00%
Total, 57961

Total = 27 for module ndis.sys
Elapsed Time, > 0 usecs AND <= 1 usecs, 9, or 33.33%
Elapsed Time, > 1 usecs AND <= 2 usecs, 0, or 0.00%
Elapsed Time, > 2 usecs AND <= 4 usecs, 6, or 22.22%
Elapsed Time, > 4 usecs AND <= 8 usecs, 0, or 0.00%
Elapsed Time, > 8 usecs AND <= 16 usecs, 7, or 25.93%
Elapsed Time, > 16 usecs AND <= 32 usecs, 5, or 18.52%
Total,

ISR

Total = 57961 for module asmtxhci.sys
Elapsed Time, > 0 usecs AND <= 1 usecs, 57883, or 99.87%
Elapsed Time, > 1 usecs AND <= 2 usecs, 44, or 0.08%
Elapsed Time, > 2 usecs AND <= 4 usecs, 17, or 0.03%
Elapsed Time, > 4 usecs AND <= 8 usecs, 17, or 0.03%
Total,

Does the 10GbE nic's, for example the Intel X520 support RSS?

[MeveSPB]

For the i225/i226, look at

I don't have any sections that are described in the instructions = RSS.reg, RSS4Q.reg

Code: Select all

;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; Intel(R) Ethernet Network Adapter I225-T1
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[E15F2_Retail.10.0...17763]
Characteristics           = 0x84 ; NCF_HAS_UI | NCF_PHYSICAL
BusType                   = 5    ; PCI
DelReg                    = Advanced.DelReg
AddReg                    = e2f.reg, TcpSeg.reg, JumboPacket.reg
AddReg                    = EnableWakeOnManagmentOnTCO.reg
AddReg                    = Copper.reg, Copper1000.reg
AddReg                    = Copper2500.reg
AddReg                    = Powermgmt.reg, WakeOnSlot.reg, WakeOnLink.reg
AddReg                    = DCA.reg
AddReg                    = LLI.reg
AddReg                    = DMACoalescing.reg
AddReg                    = NDISVlanId.reg
AddReg                    = ProtocolOffload.reg
AddReg                    = UninstallW2.reg
AddReg                    = CoInKS.reg
CopyFiles                 = win10.CopyFiles, MessageDll.CopyFiles
*IfType                   = 6     ; IF_TYPE_ETHERNET_CSMACD
*MediaType                = 0     ; NdisMedium802_3
*PhysicalMediaType        = 14 ; NdisPhysicalMedium802_3

[E15F2_Retail.10.0...17763.Services]
AddService                = e2fexpress, 2, win10.Service, win10.EventLog

[E15F2_Retail.10.0...17763.HW]
Include                   = pci.inf
Needs                     = PciIoSpaceNotRequired.HW, PciD3ColdSupported.HW
AddReg                    = MSIX5.reg

;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next, I don't have the brains to figure out what's wrong. I wrote earlier that rss is no longer supported. There is a postscript in the downloaded drivers (Wired_driver_28.2_x64)

End of support for RSS on Microsoft Windows operating systems for the following
devices:

Code: Select all

Removed Features
----------------
End of support for RSS on Microsoft Windows operating systems for the following 
devices:
- Intel(R) Ethernet Connection I217
- Intel(R) Ethernet Connection I218
- Intel(R) Ethernet Network Adapter I226
- Intel(R) Ethernet Network Adapter I225
- Intel(R) Killer(TM) E3100X 2.5 Gigabit Ethernet Controller I226-V
- Intel(R) Ethernet Connection (2) I219

My I225-T1 adapter is in the list. As in other things and many other adapters. Am I doing something wrong, help me?

[Odeii430]

For the i225/i226, look at

I don't have any sections that are described in the instructions = RSS.reg, RSS4Q.reg

Code: Select all

;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; Intel(R) Ethernet Network Adapter I225-T1
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[E15F2_Retail.10.0...17763]
Characteristics           = 0x84 ; NCF_HAS_UI | NCF_PHYSICAL
BusType                   = 5    ; PCI
DelReg                    = Advanced.DelReg
AddReg                    = e2f.reg, TcpSeg.reg, JumboPacket.reg
AddReg                    = EnableWakeOnManagmentOnTCO.reg
AddReg                    = Copper.reg, Copper1000.reg
AddReg                    = Copper2500.reg
AddReg                    = Powermgmt.reg, WakeOnSlot.reg, WakeOnLink.reg
AddReg                    = DCA.reg
AddReg                    = LLI.reg
AddReg                    = DMACoalescing.reg
AddReg                    = NDISVlanId.reg
AddReg                    = ProtocolOffload.reg
AddReg                    = UninstallW2.reg
AddReg                    = CoInKS.reg
CopyFiles                 = win10.CopyFiles, MessageDll.CopyFiles
*IfType                   = 6     ; IF_TYPE_ETHERNET_CSMACD
*MediaType                = 0     ; NdisMedium802_3
*PhysicalMediaType        = 14 ; NdisPhysicalMedium802_3

[E15F2_Retail.10.0...17763.Services]
AddService                = e2fexpress, 2, win10.Service, win10.EventLog

[E15F2_Retail.10.0...17763.HW]
Include                   = pci.inf
Needs                     = PciIoSpaceNotRequired.HW, PciD3ColdSupported.HW
AddReg                    = MSIX5.reg

;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next, I don't have the brains to figure out what's wrong. I wrote earlier that rss is no longer supported. There is a postscript in the downloaded drivers (Wired_driver_28.2_x64)

End of support for RSS on Microsoft Windows operating systems for the following
devices:

Code: Select all

Removed Features
----------------
End of support for RSS on Microsoft Windows operating systems for the following 
devices:
- Intel(R) Ethernet Connection I217
- Intel(R) Ethernet Connection I218
- Intel(R) Ethernet Network Adapter I226
- Intel(R) Ethernet Network Adapter I225
- Intel(R) Killer(TM) E3100X 2.5 Gigabit Ethernet Controller I226-V
- Intel(R) Ethernet Connection (2) I219

My I225-T1 adapter is in the list. As in other things and many other adapters. Am I doing something wrong, help me?

MeveSPB can u link u tg i have some question
or u can write to me odeii43

[schandras]

Ok I may be onto something.
it has something to do about dirty electricity passing through cheap router power supply into the pc through the ethernet cable. This is the weakest point of entry agianst emi from mainline, or maybe it's the router that has problem idk.

remove the ethernet cable.
After that you need to perform cleansing steps like this,
keep plugging random stuff into all usb terminals to "clear the pipes".
whatever you can find adapters, flash drives, hdd,...
unplug the usb headers from mobo to chassis and replug.

You should find a difference now. don't plug anything into the ethernet port. use internet through wifi or mobile tethering. you can test for a couple of days.

[Mr1991]

Ok I may be onto something.
it has something to do about dirty electricity passing through cheap router power supply into the pc through the ethernet cable. This is the weakest point of entry agianst emi from mainline, or maybe it's the router that has problem idk.

remove the ethernet cable.
After that you need to perform cleansing steps like this,
keep plugging random stuff into all usb terminals to "clear the pipes".
whatever you can find adapters, flash drives, hdd,...
unplug the usb headers from mobo to chassis and replug.

You should find a difference now. don't plug anything into the ethernet port. use internet through wifi or mobile tethering. you can test for a couple of days.

Temporary

[schandras]

Ok I may be onto something.
it has something to do about dirty electricity passing through cheap router power supply into the pc through the ethernet cable. This is the weakest point of entry agianst emi from mainline, or maybe it's the router that has problem idk.

remove the ethernet cable.
After that you need to perform cleansing steps like this,
keep plugging random stuff into all usb terminals to "clear the pipes".
whatever you can find adapters, flash drives, hdd,...
unplug the usb headers from mobo to chassis and replug.

You should find a difference now. don't plug anything into the ethernet port. use internet through wifi or mobile tethering. you can test for a couple of days.

Temporary

I really believe it's not, atleast you should try not using ethernet for a couple of days. It will take some time to sort itself out, in the chaos of daily usage. At the end of it you should ask which one you prefer.

[Sandy]

There is for sure improvement if you plug phone to USB and play on LTE in CS GO it feels like another game even with high ping but same will happend if you use usb LAN all these tweeks are time limited. (all tested) Since your game work on diferent PC outside your place there is no fix at your home right?
Anything new connected to the PC increase capacitance and that will improve your input lag for limited time….

Yes, I'm pretty sure this is an electrical performance problem. This problem must be solved jointly by Microsoft, Intel and motherboard manufacturers. I play Cs1.6 every day and frequently switch between 6 usb2.0 interfaces. Each switch can get 5 Minutes of ultra-low latency and then it doesn’t work...

Depends.

I've seen good LTE networks outperform bad WiFi networks.

A couple of people posted here in the past, that mentioned their LTE signal produced better competitive performance than their FTTH connection.

This is possibly because of bad network routing. Or other weirdness such as lag-compensation playing-field-levelling algorithms that somehow overseverely penalized low-ping players. Or gave an unusually low handicap for a user who was detected to be using LTE, but the person was using an average-LTE connection, etc. All kind of weird black-box algorithms in netcode.

Try ALL of the Internet connections you have, even LTE.

I encountered this situation for a while and then it stopped working. My guess is that the newly plugged USB device into the computer triggered a new USB sequence. So it was not the network that got better but the USB input delay. The current permanent and reliable solution is to buy PCIE USB. The card transmits data directly to the CPU

sorry, all what u tried and spent money to it, u never tried play without ethernet cable plugged in? ,, this thing i tried 5 years ago, even playing on WIFI, buy usb wifi adapter and try, phone hotspot or local internet connection, all is the same

It is the USB device that is newly inserted into the computer that triggers a new USB sequence. So it is not the network that is getting better, but the USB input delay. The current permanent and reliable solution is to buy a PCIE USB card to transfer data directly to the CPU.

[Slender]

There is for sure improvement if you plug phone to USB and play on LTE in CS GO it feels like another game even with high ping but same will happend if you use usb LAN all these tweeks are time limited. (all tested) Since your game work on diferent PC outside your place there is no fix at your home right?
Anything new connected to the PC increase capacitance and that will improve your input lag for limited time….

Yes, I'm pretty sure this is an electrical performance problem. This problem must be solved jointly by Microsoft, Intel and motherboard manufacturers. I play Cs1.6 every day and frequently switch between 6 usb2.0 interfaces. Each switch can get 5 Minutes of ultra-low latency and then it doesn’t work...

Depends.

I've seen good LTE networks outperform bad WiFi networks.

A couple of people posted here in the past, that mentioned their LTE signal produced better competitive performance than their FTTH connection.

This is possibly because of bad network routing. Or other weirdness such as lag-compensation playing-field-levelling algorithms that somehow overseverely penalized low-ping players. Or gave an unusually low handicap for a user who was detected to be using LTE, but the person was using an average-LTE connection, etc. All kind of weird black-box algorithms in netcode.

Try ALL of the Internet connections you have, even LTE.

I encountered this situation for a while and then it stopped working. My guess is that the newly plugged USB device into the computer triggered a new USB sequence. So it was not the network that got better but the USB input delay. The current permanent and reliable solution is to buy PCIE USB. The card transmits data directly to the CPU

sorry, all what u tried and spent money to it, u never tried play without ethernet cable plugged in? ,, this thing i tried 5 years ago, even playing on WIFI, buy usb wifi adapter and try, phone hotspot or local internet connection, all is the same

It is the USB device that is newly inserted into the computer that triggers a new USB sequence. So it is not the network that is getting better, but the USB input delay. The current permanent and reliable solution is to buy a PCIE USB card to transfer data directly to the CPU.

only amd cpu support direct usb to cpu.
no one intel support it.
only if you connect your usb pci card to cpu m2

[PanosX]

Hello ALL i have i219v and another one is Marvell Aquantia 10G AQC 107 anyone test that?this Nic in onboard but i think is pci express on my test {only feeling} i dont see any diffrences!!!

[howcani]

Have you messed with core affinities (keeping DPC's and ISR's on the same 2 cores, especially away from core 0) and interrupt moderation?

I don't quite understand what you're talking about (sorry English is not my native language). I am not messed with core affinities
(everything is as it is, default).
Interrupt moderation is disabled. Usually, I set up functions according to the following type.
xx.jpg
I would also like to add i225 and i226, you can't turn off msi mode (Windows breaks)

10.02.2024
PS

Download this driver (for 8125B)
...... (in particular, the Win10 Auto Installation Program (NDIS)
In windows, it's shown as
Driver Date: 11/21/2023
Driver Version: 10.69.1121.2023

- Change limit from MSIUtil from 1 to 4
- Gointerruptpolicy - set "Realtek PCIe GbE Family Controller" from "IrqAllCloseProcessor" to "IrqPolicySpreadMessagesAcrossAllprocessors" or "irqPolicySpecifiedProcessors"
- RSS on, which you do by going in Control Panel\Network and Internet\Network Connections\ and right-clicking the adapter, pressing Properties => Configure => Advanced and turning on "Receive Side Scaling"
- Queues to 2
- RSSBaseProcessor on 2 in registry

I made your recommendations on the RTL8111F-CG chip (D-Link DGE-560T/D2A).
What has been done:
1.The driver remains the same (no changes).
2.I looked at the values of "limit" and "max limit" in msi- (1....4) - I had it like that.
3. In GoInterruptPolicy - changed the value to "IrqPolicySpreadMessagesAcrossAllprocessors"
4. Added a new parameter to the registry.
5. - Queues to 2
- RSSBaseProcessor on 2 in registry ...
x111.png
It worked, I'm thrilled:D !!! The game has stopped freezing, the mouse has come to life! And it's on a $10 fee!!!!!! I'll test it again, I wonder if I'll get the same feeling on intel (225,226).
And now what should I do with the ASUS XG-C100C (ALQ1070) board?

I have RTL8111G I don't see anywhere the registry of "RSSBaseProcessor" can't even find