is bufferbloat a thing?

[Slender]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11976&p=93435&hili ... oat#p93435

[imprecise]

Im not the op but mine is like this

https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbl ... dba3195dce


im not a an expert so i dont know if there's a problem.

Yes, this is pretty high bloat. I'm still trying to test SQM vs. Windows settings but I think it's a connection issue that should be addressed by the ISP.

I've noticed in the testing that my speeds spike to 2-5gbit, so I'm guessing I'm connected to a 5gig port and being software throttled down to 1gig.

[imprecise]

For anyone who has fiber and also high bufferbloat, it looks like it's being caused by 10G -> 1G buffering. You can somewhat alleviate the issue by using SQM (Cake, fq_codel) but the underlying issue will remain.

The general rule of thumb is that you need 50ms of line-rate output queue buffer, so for for a 10G switch, there should be around 60MB of buffer. This is particularly important if you have a 10G host sending to a 1G host across the WAN. But there are a number of switch design issues that make it hard to quantify exactly how much buffering is actually required.

https://fasterdata.es.net/network-tunin ... ze-issues/

Switches are usually 48 ports, so having a 10G uplink and 40 1G connections will completely saturate the switch under peak times, which leads to buffering and delayed or dropped packets. If you're experiencing this, maybe your ISP will fix it, or maybe you will have to find a better connection.

Some settings that might help on the client side:
Jumbo Frame (MTU 9KB)
Flow Control (Intel network adapter setting)
netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled (Turns off TCP auto-tuning in Windows. Default setting is "normal")

[Kipperii]

For anyone who has fiber and also high bufferbloat, it looks like it's being caused by 10G -> 1G buffering. You can somewhat alleviate the issue by using SQM (Cake, fq_codel) but the underlying issue will remain.

The general rule of thumb is that you need 50ms of line-rate output queue buffer, so for for a 10G switch, there should be around 60MB of buffer. This is particularly important if you have a 10G host sending to a 1G host across the WAN. But there are a number of switch design issues that make it hard to quantify exactly how much buffering is actually required.

https://fasterdata.es.net/network-tunin ... ze-issues/

Switches are usually 48 ports, so having a 10G uplink and 40 1G connections will completely saturate the switch under peak times, which leads to buffering and delayed or dropped packets. If you're experiencing this, maybe your ISP will fix it, or maybe you will have to find a better connection.

Some settings that might help on the client side:
Jumbo Frame (MTU 9KB)
Flow Control (Intel network adapter setting)
netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled (Turns off TCP auto-tuning in Windows. Default setting is "normal")

These three settings solve my 70% problem, its so close to finish the input lag. Please tell me if there is more setting like these three.

[Kipperii]

For anyone who has fiber and also high bufferbloat, it looks like it's being caused by 10G -> 1G buffering. You can somewhat alleviate the issue by using SQM (Cake, fq_codel) but the underlying issue will remain.

The general rule of thumb is that you need 50ms of line-rate output queue buffer, so for for a 10G switch, there should be around 60MB of buffer. This is particularly important if you have a 10G host sending to a 1G host across the WAN. But there are a number of switch design issues that make it hard to quantify exactly how much buffering is actually required.

https://fasterdata.es.net/network-tunin ... ze-issues/

Switches are usually 48 ports, so having a 10G uplink and 40 1G connections will completely saturate the switch under peak times, which leads to buffering and delayed or dropped packets. If you're experiencing this, maybe your ISP will fix it, or maybe you will have to find a better connection.

Some settings that might help on the client side:
Jumbo Frame (MTU 9KB)
Flow Control (Intel network adapter setting)
netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled (Turns off TCP auto-tuning in Windows. Default setting is "normal")

But it seems like I need to find a better ISP.

[imprecise]

For anyone who has fiber and also high bufferbloat, it looks like it's being caused by 10G -> 1G buffering. You can somewhat alleviate the issue by using SQM (Cake, fq_codel) but the underlying issue will remain.

The general rule of thumb is that you need 50ms of line-rate output queue buffer, so for for a 10G switch, there should be around 60MB of buffer. This is particularly important if you have a 10G host sending to a 1G host across the WAN. But there are a number of switch design issues that make it hard to quantify exactly how much buffering is actually required.

https://fasterdata.es.net/network-tunin ... ze-issues/

Switches are usually 48 ports, so having a 10G uplink and 40 1G connections will completely saturate the switch under peak times, which leads to buffering and delayed or dropped packets. If you're experiencing this, maybe your ISP will fix it, or maybe you will have to find a better connection.

Some settings that might help on the client side:
Jumbo Frame (MTU 9KB)
Flow Control (Intel network adapter setting)
netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled (Turns off TCP auto-tuning in Windows. Default setting is "normal")

These three settings solve my 70% problem, its so close to finish the input lag. Please tell me if there is more setting like these three.

Check here for more solutions:
https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bl ... Solutions/

It looks like my suggestions above aren't listed in the solutions, as I sourced them elsewhere. The author of this site is an expert on the subject and I would defer to his advice.

Additionally, it appears to be such a widespread issue that changing ISPs may not help.

[KingAzar]

If your router have a good pipe/queue management and well set up, it should do the job like mine: https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbl ... 5e7e6b1204

2023-09-25 09_37_47-Bufferbloat and Internet Speed Test - Waveform and 1 more page - Personal - Micr.png (430.99 KiB) Viewed 3392 times

[Kipperii]

If your router have a good pipe/queue management and well set up, it should do the job like mine: https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbl ... 5e7e6b1204

2023-09-25 09_37_47-Bufferbloat and Internet Speed Test - Waveform and 1 more page - Personal - Micr.png

What is your router brand?

[KingAzar]

If your router have a good pipe/queue management and well set up, it should do the job like mine: https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbl ... 5e7e6b1204

2023-09-25 09_37_47-Bufferbloat and Internet Speed Test - Waveform and 1 more page - Personal - Micr.png

What is your router brand?

I do not use my ISP router or retail-grade router. I do use a small-factor desktop, nothing expensive that has at least the following:
- Intel CPU
- 4Gb Ram
- HDD or SSD with 32GB minimum
- VGA output (HDMI, DVI, anything)
- 2 Ethernets port (minimum)

Then you install a free Firewall that will act like a router on the small PC, I do use OPNSENSE.
How To Install OPNSENSE

Once installed you will have a dashboard like any traditional router but with more features:

0001.png (171.02 KiB) Viewed 3268 times

Then you can manage your upload and download pipe/queue/rule to avoid bufferbloat

0002.png (47.67 KiB) Viewed 3269 times

0003.png (36.35 KiB) Viewed 3269 times

My configuration is: ISP > FIBRE > SFP GPON > SMALL COMPUTER (OPENSENE) 1 NIC to receive the SFP GPON connection and 1 NIC to plug the Network Switch in
Standard configuraiton is: ISP > DSL/CABLE/FIBRE > ISP MODEM/ROUTER (set to bridge mode) > SMALL COMPUTER (OPNSENSE)...

It's not too complex to install and has lots of documentation and tutorials online. I have 940Mbps up and down fiber but my friend has 50Mbps up and down and this thing is managing his bandwidth pretty well since he has other people using the same connection in his home for other usage while he is playing: https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbl ... f4d0c5d607

[Kipperii]

If your router have a good pipe/queue management and well set up, it should do the job like mine: https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbl ... 5e7e6b1204

2023-09-25 09_37_47-Bufferbloat and Internet Speed Test - Waveform and 1 more page - Personal - Micr.png

What is your router brand?

I do not use my ISP router or retail-grade router. I do use a small-factor desktop, nothing expensive that has at least the following:
- Intel CPU
- 4Gb Ram
- HDD or SSD with 32GB minimum
- VGA output (HDMI, DVI, anything)
- 2 Ethernets port (minimum)

Then you install a free Firewall that will act like a router on the small PC, I do use OPNSENSE.
How To Install OPNSENSE

Once installed you will have a dashboard like any traditional router but with more features:
0001.png

Then you can manage your upload and download pipe/queue/rule to avoid bufferbloat
0002.png
0003.png

My configuration is: ISP > FIBRE > SFP GPON > SMALL COMPUTER (OPENSENE) 1 NIC to receive the SFP GPON connection and 1 NIC to plug the Network Switch in
Standard configuraiton is: ISP > DSL/CABLE/FIBRE > ISP MODEM/ROUTER (set to bridge mode) > SMALL COMPUTER (OPNSENSE)...

It's not too complex to install and has lots of documentation and tutorials online. I have 940Mbps up and down fiber but my friend has 50Mbps up and down and this thing is managing his bandwidth pretty well since he has other people using the same connection in his home for other usage while he is playing: https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbl ... f4d0c5d607

This is mine, jitter is twice as tall as you