What causes a 500Hz mouse to sometimes report at 250Hz or 125 Hz?

[TooManyPixels]

What causes a 500Hz mouse to sometimes report at 250Hz or 125 Hz?

Annotated.png (69.88 KiB) Viewed 7741 times

This particular kind of mouse "lag" is the same one I've been dealing with for the past 4 years.

I don't want to call it "lag" because, strictly-speaking, this isn't a latency issue, but it seems to be a variable sensitivity and/or variable movement report-time. This happens with a variety of mice too, and on a variety of computers (all affected machines have Intel CPUs, I have an unaffected machine with an AMD processor; all machines are running Windows 10 22H2).

I know that moving the mouse very slowly (e.g. 1 mouse-unit per second) will result in MouseTester reporting very slow frequencies - but I get this 250Hz and 125Hz (and oddly, ~167Hz too) when I move my mouse at a reasonable natural speed which should always be reported at 500Hz.

I am aware of XHCI moderation, but the minimum moderation interval is 250ns - but 250Hz is 4ms (quite a few orders of magnitude higher!) - but also because I purchased a StarTech USB 2.0 PCI-Express card (USB 2.0 is EHCI, not XHCI) and I can reproduce the issue when my mouse is plugged into either the USB 2.0 card or my motherboard's USB 3.0 ports.

I cannot reliably reproduce this on-demand, but it tends to happen throughout the day, then be fine for a few days, then reappear again.

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Obligatory list of things to mention:

• Issue started affecting me around October 2019
• It happens regardless of the mouse model I'm using (Razer Basilisk V2, Logitech G400, Logitech MX518, some random no-name mice, and interestingly, also it feels like the PS/2 touchpad in my laptop is affected too)
• Affected computers of mine:
  • Intel NUC 11 (with Intel i7-1165G7) built in 2021
  • ASUS Z490-E (with Intel i7-10700K) built in 2020
  • ASUS X99 (with Intel i7-6850K) built in 2016
  • Dell XPS 9560 (with Intel i7-7700HQ) built in 2017
• Unaffected computers of mine:
  
  • ASUS X570-E (with AMD Ryzen 7 2700X)
• Issue is reproducible in both USB 2.0 ports in a USB 2.0-only card (this card from StarTech) and in USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 ports on all affected machines.
• Issue happens with Intel CPU-integrated graphics, and with NVIDIA GeForce, AMD Radeon, and AMD Radeon Pro GPUs.
• It definitely is not EMI or anything like that (because it also happens on my XPS laptop when I'm in the outdoors, or anywhere)
• LatencyMon Pro 7.31 shows nothing unusual even when I can reproduce the issue
• The older dpclat.exe seems to think there's a 1000us latency, but given the age of the program ("DPC Latency Checker V1.4.0" is from 2015) it predates Windows 10 entirely and I understand MS made changes to how applications can access system timers since then.
• I have fiddled with EFI and Windows boot settings (e.g. HPET, UsePlatformTick, DisableDynamicTick, and the rest, to no effect, and I'm familiar with this article too).
• Disabling/removing all networking hardware made no difference (so the first person to say "bufferbloat" unironically gets a stabbing).

[Slender]

you have a high dpc / kernel timer spikes. But try to use another mouse (1000hz).
show your msi v3 tool screen.

[TooManyPixels]

you have a high dpc / kernel timer spikes. But try to use another mouse (1000hz).

I forgot to mention in my post that it also happens regardless of the model of USB mouse I'm using (Logitech, Razer, a few random no-name models, etc).

show your msi v3 tool screen.

I hadn't heard of this tool before, but I gave it a try just now, this is what it shows me:

msi-mode-utility.png (54.79 KiB) Viewed 7678 times

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Code: Select all

Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Radeon RX 5500 XT
	Manufacturer	: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
	Location	: PCI bus 3, device 0, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_7340&SUBSYS_38201462&REV_C5\6&7F9093F&0&00000008
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0025
	Driver version	: 31.0.14037.17019
	Driver inf-path	: oem42.inf
	Driver provider	: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
	Driver rank	: 13574144

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciExpressLegacyEndpoint
	PCI-E max speed	: v.4
	PCI-E max lanes	: 16
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased, Msi
	Max MSI limit	: 1

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: High Definition Audio Bus
	Manufacturer	: AMD
	Location	: PCI bus 3, device 0, function 1
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_AB38&SUBSYS_38201462&REV_00\6&7F9093F&0&01000008
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0026
	Driver version	: 22.20.0.1
	Driver inf-path	: oem49.inf
	Driver provider	: AMD
	Driver rank	: 16719874

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciExpressLegacyEndpoint
	PCI-E max speed	: v.4
	PCI-E max lanes	: 16
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased, Msi
	Max MSI limit	: 1

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller
	Manufacturer	: VIA Technologies
	Location	: PCI bus 8, device 0, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3038&SUBSYS_30381106&REV_62\5&2C1C55E9&0&0000E7
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0022
	Driver version	: 10.0.19041.3208
	Driver inf-path	: usbport.inf
	Driver provider	: Microsoft
	Driver rank	: 16711682

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciConventional
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller
	Manufacturer	: VIA Technologies
	Location	: PCI bus 8, device 0, function 1
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3038&SUBSYS_30381106&REV_62\5&2C1C55E9&0&0100E7
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0023
	Driver version	: 10.0.19041.3208
	Driver inf-path	: usbport.inf
	Driver provider	: Microsoft
	Driver rank	: 16711682

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciConventional
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: VIA USB Enhanced Host Controller
	Manufacturer	: VIA Technologies
	Location	: PCI bus 8, device 0, function 2
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&SUBSYS_31041106&REV_65\5&2C1C55E9&0&0200E7
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0024
	Driver version	: 10.0.19041.3208
	Driver inf-path	: usbport.inf
	Driver provider	: Microsoft
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciConventional
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Samsung NVMe Controller
	Manufacturer	: Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd
	Location	: PCI bus 4, device 0, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_144D&DEV_A808&SUBSYS_A801144D&REV_00\4&212B3122&0&00D8
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0018
	Driver version	: 3.3.0.2003
	Driver inf-path	: oem3.inf
	Driver provider	: Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd
	Driver rank	: 16711681

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciExpressEndpoint
	PCI-E max speed	: v.3
	PCI-E max lanes	: 4
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased, Msi, MsiX
	Max MSI limit	: 33

Actual number of IRQs: 33

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #9 - 06B0
	Manufacturer	: INTEL
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 29, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06B0&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_F0\3&11583659&0&E8
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0012
	Driver version	: 10.1.31.2
	Driver inf-path	: oem21.inf
	Driver provider	: INTEL
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: BridgeType_PciExpressRootPort

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #1 - 06B8
	Manufacturer	: INTEL
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 28, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06B8&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_F0\3&11583659&0&E0
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0009
	Driver version	: 10.1.31.2
	Driver inf-path	: oem21.inf
	Driver provider	: INTEL
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: BridgeType_PciExpressRootPort

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #5 - 06BC
	Manufacturer	: INTEL
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 28, function 4
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06BC&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_F0\3&11583659&0&E4
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0010
	Driver version	: 10.1.31.2
	Driver inf-path	: oem21.inf
	Driver provider	: INTEL
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: BridgeType_PciExpressRootPort

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #8 - 06BF
	Manufacturer	: INTEL
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 28, function 7
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06BF&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_F0\3&11583659&0&E7
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0011
	Driver version	: 10.1.31.2
	Driver inf-path	: oem21.inf
	Driver provider	: INTEL
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: BridgeType_PciExpressRootPort

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #17 - 06C0
	Manufacturer	: INTEL
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 27, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06C0&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_F0\3&11583659&0&D8
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0008
	Driver version	: 10.1.31.2
	Driver inf-path	: oem21.inf
	Driver provider	: INTEL
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: BridgeType_PciExpressRootPort

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: High Definition Audio Controller
	Manufacturer	: Microsoft
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 31, function 3
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06C8&SUBSYS_87C51043&REV_00\3&11583659&0&FB
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0014
	Driver version	: 10.0.19041.3271
	Driver inf-path	: hdaudbus.inf
	Driver provider	: Microsoft
	Driver rank	: 16719878

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciConventional
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased, Msi
	Max MSI limit	: 1

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) Management Engine Interface #1
	Manufacturer	: Intel
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 22, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06E0&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_00\3&11583659&0&B0
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0007
	Driver version	: 2145.1.42.0
	Driver inf-path	: oem27.inf
	Driver provider	: Intel
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciConventional
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased, Msi
	Max MSI limit	: 1

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) Serial IO I2C Host Controller - 06E8
	Manufacturer	: Intel Corporation
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 21, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06E8&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_00\3&11583659&0&A8
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0005
	Driver version	: 30.100.1929.1
	Driver inf-path	: iaLPSS2i_I2C_CNL.inf
	Driver provider	: Intel Corporation
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciConventional
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) Serial IO I2C Host Controller - 06E9
	Manufacturer	: Intel Corporation
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 21, function 1
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06E9&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_00\3&11583659&0&A9
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0006
	Driver version	: 30.100.1929.1
	Driver inf-path	: iaLPSS2i_I2C_CNL.inf
	Driver provider	: Intel Corporation
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciConventional
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) USB 3.1 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.10 (Microsoft)
	Manufacturer	: Generic USB xHCI Host Controller
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 20, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_06ED&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_00\3&11583659&0&A0
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0002
	Driver version	: 10.0.19041.3031
	Driver inf-path	: usbxhci.inf
	Driver provider	: Microsoft
	Driver rank	: 8396805

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciConventional
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased, Msi
	Max MSI limit	: 8

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) Ethernet Controller (2) I225-V
	Manufacturer	: Intel
	Location	: PCI bus 6, device 0, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_15F3&SUBSYS_87D21043&REV_02\3C7C3FFFFF1E366600
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0019
	Driver version	: 1.1.3.28
	Driver inf-path	: oem11.inf
	Driver provider	: Intel
	Driver rank	: 16719872

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciExpressEndpoint
	PCI-E max speed	: v.2
	PCI-E max lanes	: 1
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased, Msi, MsiX
	Max MSI limit	: 5

Actual number of IRQs: 9

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Intel(R) Xeon(R) E3 - 1200/1500 v5/6th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) PCIe Controller (x16) - 1901
	Manufacturer	: INTEL
	Location	: PCI bus 0, device 1, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1901&SUBSYS_86941043&REV_05\3&11583659&0&08
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0001
	Driver version	: 10.1.1.38
	Driver inf-path	: oem12.inf
	Driver provider	: INTEL
	Driver rank	: 16719873

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: BridgeType_PciExpressRootPort

Actual number of IRQs: 1

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Slender]

you have a high dpc / kernel timer spikes. But try to use another mouse (1000hz).

I forgot to mention in my post that it also happens regardless of the model of USB mouse I'm using (Logitech, Razer, a few random no-name models, etc).

show your msi v3 tool screen.

I hadn't heard of this tool before, but I gave it a try just now, this is what it shows me:

msi-mode-utility.png

----

Code: Select all

Device PNP properties
	Display name	: Radeon RX 5500 XT
	Manufacturer	: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
	Location	: PCI bus 3, device 0, function 0
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_7340&SUBSYS_38201462&REV_C5\6&7F9093F&0&00000008
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0025
	Driver version	: 31.0.14037.17019
	Driver inf-path	: oem42.inf
	Driver provider	: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
	Driver rank	: 13574144

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciExpressLegacyEndpoint
	PCI-E max speed	: v.4
	PCI-E max lanes	: 16
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased, Msi
	Max MSI limit	: 1

Actual number of IRQs: 1

--------------------------

Device PNP properties
	Display name	: High Definition Audio Bus
	Manufacturer	: AMD
	Location	: PCI bus 3, device 0, function 1
	Instance ID	: PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_AB38&SUBSYS_38201462&REV_00\6&7F9093F&0&01000008
	PDO name	: \Device\NTPNP_PCI0026
	Driver version	: 22.20.0.1
	Driver inf-path	: oem49.inf
	Driver provider	: AMD
	Driver rank	: 16719874

Device PCI properties
	PCI device type	: PciExpressLegacyEndpoint
	PCI-E max speed	: v.4
	PCI-E max lanes	: 16
	Interrupt modes	: LineBased, Msi
	Max MSI limit	: 1

Actual number of IRQs: 1

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try to enable all checkbox and reboot pc
edit: im see you use bloated windows, try to install ggos (if you dont play faceit), or use latest revios 10.

[TooManyPixels]

try to enable all checkbox and reboot pc

I've done that just now (and rebooted) - it does not seem to have made any change at all.

After rebooting.png (1.38 MiB) Viewed 7616 times

I would like to hear your explanation of why the older (2015) "DPC Latency Checker 1.4.0" seems to think I have 1000us DPC latency when LatencyMon (rebuilt for Windows 11) says the opposite (even worse: the 2015 program is a 32-bit x86 program, so it's already running under WoW32 on an AMD64 environment, so it can't possibly be showing accurate data.

im see you use bloated windows, try to install ggos (if you dont play faceit), or use latest revios 10.

The affected computers are work machines, I really can't install anything like ggos on them (and I can't say I agree with your characterization of my install as "bloated"... especially as I'm not even running stock Windows anyway)

[Slender]

try to enable all checkbox and reboot pc

I've done that just now (and rebooted) - it does not seem to have made any change at all.

After rebooting.png

I would like to hear your explanation of why the older (2015) "DPC Latency Checker 1.4.0" seems to think I have 1000us DPC latency when LatencyMon (rebuilt for Windows 11) says the opposite (even worse: the 2015 program is a 32-bit x86 program, so it's already running under WoW32 on an AMD64 environment, so it can't possibly be showing accurate data.

im see you use bloated windows, try to install ggos (if you dont play faceit), or use latest revios 10.

The affected computers are work machines, I really can't install anything like ggos on them (and I can't say I agree with your characterization of my install as "bloated"... especially as I'm not even running stock Windows anyway)

you need to change option in latencymoon to check Kernel timer latency, because dpc lat.cheker check it.
Dpc lat. use timer call from driver, that is reason why when dpc lat open your kernel timer latency is decrease. Anyway, your problem that be cause by bios, or windows. Im highly reccomended to change your os to ggos, and test it, if same - that 99% about your motherboard (bios/settings/hw issue, etc).
my 8000hz mouse have same problem on 8000hz (it drop to 4000-2000-1000), but if im use 1000, or 2000 - problem is resolved.
you have same behaivor on 1000hz?
try to disable amd gpu driver.

[Vocaleyes]

You seem to be sharing a few IRQ’s, the 16’s & 17’s. Unsure which ones would be best to put on interrupts though.

Wont fix the issue I believe, but it’s good habit from what I’ve read.

[imprecise]

try to enable all checkbox and reboot pc
edit: im see you use bloated windows, try to install ggos (if you dont play faceit), or use latest revios 10.

A few of those devices show linebased only... Not a good idea to try and enable MSI mode on devices that don't support it, for future reference. It looks like they all stayed + though so no harm done.

[PapaJuan]

You can try changing your timer resolution, as that should greatly lower your DCP latency.

To do this, download this timer resolution tool and run it.

https://github.com/therealvelo/Timer-Re ... l/releases

I can't test this one at work, but there should be a button you can press that says maximum. Once you press it, run DCPlat again and it should instantly be lower. You need this program to run at all times, so I make it run in the background on windows boot. If the number is not a perfect .500 or something, you need to do the following.

First run cmd as Admin, then Copy paste these commands 1 at a time:

bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes

bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes

bcdedit /set deletevalue useplatformclock

If the last one says can't find the file, then HPET was disabled before and doesn't matter.

Reset PC and it should Show 0.5ms.

[ahead]

That's funny; I tried playing with this setting 20 years ago.