flood's input lag measurements

Everything about input lag. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more!

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby br00m » 20 Apr 2017, 21:30

Thats interesting. Thank you so much. As I said in another post my specs are: i5 2320 HD 7850 and i get a constant 200 FPS on lowest setting. On the workshop map (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =500334237) i get 207.81 FPS on average. Did you upload it somewhere lex?
br00m
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 19 Apr 2017, 15:03

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby lexlazootin » 20 Apr 2017, 23:05

Yea, sort of.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Sorry if they are hard to understand. I did a lot of different tests with a lot of different settings that i did a while ago, they are all not here but i found that CS:GO can have as low as 9ms input latency. Which is pretty much as good as you're going to get. With these tests I discovered that the shooting mechanic has a 8ms~ delay on 128tick servers

A few things that might help with lowering input latency is to get a mouse with little to no 'debounce'/input latency (Logitech does a amazing job) and making sure you're not cpu limited as i heard that can add latency.
lexlazootin
 
Posts: 836
Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 02:57

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby Sparky » 21 Apr 2017, 03:39

br00m wrote:Thats interesting. Thank you so much. As I said in another post my specs are: i5 2320 HD 7850 and i get a constant 200 FPS on lowest setting. On the workshop map (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =500334237) i get 207.81 FPS on average. Did you upload it somewhere lex?


sounds like you might be GPU limited, so a framerate cap might decrease latency by a frame or two(5~10ms). use fps_max.
Sparky
 
Posts: 506
Joined: 15 Jan 2014, 02:29

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby br00m » 28 Apr 2017, 16:44

Thank you very much Lex. That would mean that the sluggish feel is there becasue of my hardware/settings. Also another thing: When you go in windowed mode in csgo and press the windows key so that the start pops up, you will get the windows cursor in addition to the csgo cursor. I notice a huge delay between those two cursors. I wonder if its because its windowed or if this delay is just in the menue and not it the game.
br00m
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 19 Apr 2017, 15:03

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby RealNC » 29 Apr 2017, 01:04

Wait, you're playing in windowed mode? If you care about input lag, don't play in windowed mode.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
User avatar
RealNC
 
Posts: 1118
Joined: 24 Dec 2013, 18:32

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 29 Apr 2017, 01:15

Correct -- yes...

Windowed mode (including full screen "borderless" windowed) adds more lag than true fullscreen mode.

It's possible to greatly lower lag (e.g. VSYNC OFF in windowed mode) but it will still have more lag than the same setting during true fullscreen mode.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter!
User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby Glide » 29 Apr 2017, 03:01

Does that still apply if you're using G-Sync in windowed mode?
I had always used fullscreen exclusive mode until I got a G-Sync monitor, and I have to admit that windowed mode is very convenient.

How does the new enhanced fullscreen mode in Win10 CU compare to true FSE Mode?
Glide
 
Posts: 263
Joined: 24 Mar 2015, 20:33

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby RealNC » 29 Apr 2017, 04:22

G-sync windowed still has the DWM input lag. What you get is DWM being synced to the refresh rate. DWM still needs to copy the application's output to its own buffer and do compositing, which means at least 1 frame of input lag (maybe 2 if DWM uses tripple buffering; I don't think anyone tested.)

The new non-exclusive fullscreen mode actually does disable DWM (which why you can see tearing in that mode with vsync off and gsync off.) That means no additional input lag. This should be the same as windowed mode in Windows 7 and earlier with disabled desktop composition (like when using the "Basic" theme.)
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
User avatar
RealNC
 
Posts: 1118
Joined: 24 Dec 2013, 18:32

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby Glide » 29 Apr 2017, 05:08

I was afraid that would be the case.
It's so convenient to use windowed mode now that I've tried it...

Would I be right in thinking that Windowed Mode G-Sync would at least be lower latency than Fullscreen Mode V-Sync, even if there's an extra frame of lag vs Fullscreen G-Sync?

What about D3D12 / Vulkan?
As I understood it, neither of them have true fullscreen mode support.
Does that still mean you need to use "fullscreen" mode (which is the new enhanced fullscreen mode on Win10) or does borderless mode also have reduced latency?

I've noticed that games using the new enhanced fullscreen mode will tear if you disable v-sync in borderless mode, which seems to suggest that both modes may be bypassing the DWM now.

To check if a game is using the new enhanced fullscreen mode or not, hit Win+G and see if it brings up the game bar.
If the screen flashes twice instead of bringing up the game bar, it's using the old fullscreen mode.
If the game bar appears, it's using the new enhanced fullscreen mode.
This can be disabled via the compatibility options for the executable if you want the old FSE/Borderless behavior back.

I wonder if there's a way to force games to use the enhanced fullscreen mode, as it currently only works with games that Microsoft has whitelisted.
This is the most complete list that I have found so far.
Glide
 
Posts: 263
Joined: 24 Mar 2015, 20:33

Re: flood's input lag measurements

Postby RealNC » 29 Apr 2017, 05:18

Glide wrote:Would I be right in thinking that Windowed Mode G-Sync would at least be lower latency than Fullscreen Mode V-Sync, even if there's an extra frame of lag vs Fullscreen G-Sync?

Yes, that's true. Windowed mode vsync is the worst of the lot, since you get BOTH the vsync lag as well as the DWM lag. G-Sync rules still apply though: you need to cap the framerate below the refresh rate to avoid vsync lag in windowed mode too.

What about D3D12 / Vulkan?
As I understood it, neither of them have true fullscreen mode support.
Does that still mean you need to use "fullscreen" mode (which is the new enhanced fullscreen mode on Win10) or does borderless mode also have reduced latency?

They are a weird mix of fullscreen and borderless. No DWM lag, that's disabled.

Basically, if you can switch resolution, it's not really windowed mode. In windowed mode, you run at the desktop's resolution.

This new "non-exclusive fullscreen" mode is actually quite awesome, when you think about it. No input lag, but still faster alt+tabbing compared to exclusive, and you can still switch resolution, and your color settings are followed (I think.)

I wonder if there's a way to force games to use the enhanced fullscreen mode, as it currently only works with games that Microsoft has whitelisted.
This is the most complete list that I have found so far.

I'm not aware of a way, sadly. It seems OpenGL games also use this mode though. No Man's Sky for example came out in summer last year, but it was using this new mode too when selecting "borderless windowed." And that's on non-Creators-Update Windows. Which is weird. I'm not sure what's going on there. I suspect the driver can put the game in that mode automatically (at least on nvidia), but it doesn't do that for DirectX games.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
User avatar
RealNC
 
Posts: 1118
Joined: 24 Dec 2013, 18:32

PreviousNext

Return to Input Lag

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests