Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

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ecay
Posts: 7
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 09:13

Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by ecay » 03 Feb 2015, 09:32

Hi guys;

I have an issue about input lag about long time story(for 7-8 months)

Firstly I have ASUS G75VX but couldnt hit anything on CS GO.Then bought a new system 7-8 months ago

*MSI Z87 G45 Gaming
*4770K
*GTX 770
*VG248QE
*Crucial M500 240GB

It was fine for 3-4 months.Played good hitting something(got supreme rank) but honestly didnt satisfied with this system.Hitting but without feeling.(Prob learnt playing with input lag)(played GPU streched 1280x960)

Now i format this system.Tried everthing about lowering input lag(all guides) but the feeling is terrible now.If there is 30 rounds im being killed instantly 15 rounds by unseen enemies.How can it possible all enemies are playing against me like hacking.It is also happening at public matches sometimes(LOL)

There is last issue i think problem with my GTX 770 or its drivers.Do you suggest to me to buy radeon R9 290X or keep GTX770 and continue trying?

Please help me.

flood
Posts: 929
Joined: 21 Dec 2013, 01:25

Re: Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by flood » 03 Feb 2015, 15:21

If there is 30 rounds im being killed instantly 15 rounds by unseen enemies.How can it possible all enemies are playing against me like hacking
if people are prefiring you that's not a problem to be traced to your system.

shish_KEbOB
Posts: 8
Joined: 26 Jan 2015, 15:49

Re: Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by shish_KEbOB » 03 Feb 2015, 15:31

CS:GO has pretty bad network interpolation. What you see is not what's happening.

Nice video explaination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbXtXMmgKOc

About AMD vs nVidia you'll find people swearing by both sides having less inputlag.
There is too much subjectivity and fanboyism involved, we'll have to wait for flood's tests.

What is certain is that AMD by default uses Message Signaled Interrupts, while nVidia sticks to legacy pin based interrupts.
This alone can make a difference.
Anyway nVidia cards can be set to MSI mode too.

I've been checking the effect of maximum pre-rendered frames/flip queue size with GPUview. And nVidia's implementation just looks better in every way.
Radeon pro's implementation of "flip queue 1" will not allow any data to enter the context queue until the first present packet is finished. This implementation has a severe hit on frame-rate.
While with nVidia other (non present) packets of data will be allowed enter the queue, but it won't allow any present packets until the first one has exited the queue.
Now I'm not an expert in rendering pipelines, I can't say if the nVidia implementation is more ore less laggy than AMD's at same fps.
Hopefully someone on this forum can elaborate on that.

In favor of AMD though testing interrupt latencies with IDLT.exe (part of LatencyMon 6.00) shows how nVidia drivers have much higher latencies when using a Hyperthreaded CPU, easily braking the 100µs safe barrier. AMD drivers do not ad any latency here.

AMD with rivaruner OSD has massive FPS drops.

So yeah they are both bad, we need a third competitor :)

stirner
Posts: 74
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 04:55

Re: Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by stirner » 03 Feb 2015, 17:17

NVIDIA drivers cause input lag. Easy to notice when you uninstall them and use the Windows default driver. I have no desktop experience with AMD cards so I cannot say anything about that.

In regards to what shish_KEbOB said about pre-rendering, it does sound reasonable that NVIDIA compromises response for raw frame rate performance by utilising more data queueing than AMD. That would at least be in line with their "frame pacing" technique that compromises response for frame frequency performance.

The NVIDIA kernel driver indeed is a DPC hog, but again, no experience with AMD I could compare that to.

In general, NVIDIA is more user-friendly. More 3D settings, the Inspector is miles ahead of RadeonPro, custom resolutions and refresh rates are easily set up and saved for automatic enforcement by games, scaling options are more transparent and drivers are worked on more frequently. Although driver hickups seem to be somewhat more frequent as well, especially with newer cards.
In terms of innovative technology - both have arguments with FreeSync/G-Sync, Mantle/nGL, Stereoscopic 3D, shadowplay/GVR, ... I will probably try AMD for my next card.

As for your CS:GO problems, there could be a ton of things affecting that. Try drivers first. Update your BIOS and chipset drivers if necessary or go back to default if you already have the most recent. Try an older GPU driver. Network adapter driver. Unpark your CPU cores (Intel is parked in Win by default). Check your video settings in the video.txt in GO's cfg folder. Etc. If you could go more into detail about what you already tried and so on I could try and help you better.

flood
Posts: 929
Joined: 21 Dec 2013, 01:25

Re: Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by flood » 03 Feb 2015, 21:02

ya many things can cause input lag. once i turned on some leds in my case and suddenly i was unable to hit anything in csgo!!! then i turned them off and rebooted and then i started getting aces every other round! also make sure your cl_crosshairsize is an odd number!!!!!!!! i once tried size 4 and the game became so laggy i couldn't even get positive in deathmatch!

/s
shish_KEbOB wrote: There is too much subjectivity and fanboyism involved, we'll have to wait for flood's tests.
i'm kind of busy with research/classes/shit atm but i should have some time to resume testing again soon

i'm fairly convinced that the input lag i'm measuring is completely different from what people around these and similar forums commonly refer to as "input lag". i am trying to measure a well-defined number, i.e. the time between a physical input and the time for the screen or whatever to respond. otoh this "input lag" people like to talk about is a complete blanket term used as an excuse for inconsistent performance by people who care more about messing around with settings than actually playing the game.

ecay
Posts: 7
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 09:13

Re: Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by ecay » 04 Feb 2015, 02:31

Thanks for the answers guys.

Actually i said that im experienced about playing CS and CS GO,have ability to play with high ranks(have 1100+350 hours CS GO) and said that i try every guide for lowering input lag.

I set up new formatted system(Win 7 ult x64).Only set up Intel Z87 chipset driver and latest nVidia driver(could not able to set up older drivers that these are claimed have lower input lag) Closed Cpu Parking-HT etc.Used some useful launch options and driver settings. But i had to play at 1280x960 streched.Only issue that im playing with GPU Scale.

According to this experience I think that Radeon gaming cards may be less input lag than GeForce.I couldnt find any useful topics about this issue.

Of course i know there are so many things may effect input lag but it will worth if someone who able to do search about input lag difference between nVidia and AMD.

User avatar
lexlazootin
Posts: 1251
Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 02:57

Re: Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by lexlazootin » 04 Feb 2015, 03:33

I've recently been going around and reading a bunch about input lag and I swear that most of what everyone says is just full of it. nothing I've tried has felt any different, idk if i'm just not installing so much bloat ware or if r0ach's DPU latency guides are bullshit but leaving all my drivers running and whatever software in the background doesn't change shit for me.

4570k - AMD 280x
60hz panel.
http://i.imgur.com/XTVoscT.png

Get a good Logitech mouse and a high hz monitor and everything will be fine.
Last edited by lexlazootin on 26 Feb 2015, 09:08, edited 1 time in total.

flood
Posts: 929
Joined: 21 Dec 2013, 01:25

Re: Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by flood » 04 Feb 2015, 14:32

oh yea did you guys know that you get less input lag by sitting closer to the monitor? also shorter cables have less input lag; a 3 feet cable is twice as responsive as a 6ft cable!!!

/s

stirner
Posts: 74
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 04:55

Re: Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by stirner » 04 Feb 2015, 14:55

@ flood: It's not that I disagree with you but when you have the time you should check lag with and without NVIDIA drivers. Sure, it doesn't affect input lag, rather perceived input lag or "output lag", but it's very obvious both from a "cursor feel" perspective and 1kfps footage.

In general I think many shooters are too imprecise by design to really benefit from optimizations as minute as these. Not necessarily in Quake or 1.6, but certainly CS:GO to a degree where I sometimes like to just play with 60Hz LCD instead of 128Hz CRT or less FPS just because a lot of the game's imprecision is then "hidden" in the output or sampling imprecision.
With the CRT I have information about my view angle and opponent's model position exact to a few miliseconds and with that visual information you mechanically try to be as exact as possible. With the LCD I have, in comparison, more of an "estimated" model position and view angle behaviour. And while think my performance ceiling is higher on the precise setup, it is definitely more consistent and relaxing to hit stuff on the LCD. Weapon inaccuracy, interpolation and ping latency compensation, the entire netcode really, hitbox/register imprecision, tracing a smoothly moving object requiring more concentration than tracing a stuttery one - all of those are factors that not seldom render "just aiming in the general direction" more viable than trying to place your crosshair perfectly on an exact position, which a precise setup would have you want to do. With less responsive and choppy setups the overall feel is also more "static", which can make things feel more precise. The smoothness of a low latency environment has you noticing every little bit of physical jitter or other noise.

flood
Posts: 929
Joined: 21 Dec 2013, 01:25

Re: Nvidia or AMD for competitive gaming ?

Post by flood » 04 Feb 2015, 15:11

yea i know what you mean about windows without nvidia drivers

its because the windows cursor is drawn with the rest of the screen (which has no vsync when there is no driver) instead of only having its position updated during the end of vblank. and this has 0 impact on games that draw its own cursor or 3d fps games

same thing with intel and amd drivers.

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