Additional input lag with new Geforce driver 337.50?

[war1]

it would be really nice if somebody with a mouse+led rig could test this

personally i cant tell the difference between rawinput on vs off in csgo. does that only affect mouse motion or also clicking?

That im not sure off, but if you have the possibility to use rawinput, it should always be the best choice.

im not sure how to test it with a camera/led setup though, i need to contemplate on that i bit.

It's not that ppl don't notice, enough just have to notice(other problem with mouselag): http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-re ... ile-gaming

I think it's time to upgrade windows xp, if it's a problem that persist on newer versions on windows(you say you cant feel it, might not be there at all? it might be a windows xp bug with the drivers?)

[flood]

http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/

that's how the mouse led thing works.

raw input of course "sounds" like the best choice, but apparently some people claim turning it off is better for csgo. i couldn't notice any difference.

honestly it's really really hard to read other people's subjective observations and determine to what extent expectation bias and placebo-like effects are involved. (lol@audiophile community)

the first time i used windows 8.1, i was aware of the whole 125hz thing. when using the desktop, i could have sworn then that i was feeling a lot of additional input lag. from my testing with some barebones opengl programs, i was familiar with what 16ms of lag felt like, and at the time i would tell you that i felt that amount of additional input lag in windows 8.1 was definitely 16ms or more.

well anyway basically i did some measurements of input lag using my phone, and... well basically i concluded that my original feelings were completely in my own head. since then i've been very cautious with evaluating other people's subjective anecdotes.

but anyway, given the weird tearing behavior with my gtx 750ti and the numerous reports from people, there probably is something funky going on with nvidia's drivers and/or window's input system. it may be a very specific combination of graphics card + driver + game.

we're very fortunate that it is possible to exactly measure these things; whereas with audiophiles, if you present measurements that do not support their subjective impressions, they'll just fire back a bunch of semi-valid arguments like "you can't measure what i hear", "blind tests hide small differences", etc...

I think it's time to upgrade windows xp, if it's a problem that persist on newer versions on windows(you say you cant feel it, might not be there at all? it might be a windows xp bug with the drivers?)

windows xp still feels nice and crisp in a weird way even compared to windows 7 with compositing off. but it doesn't perform well when loaded.

[war1]

http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/

that's how the mouse led thing works.

raw input of course "sounds" like the best choice, but apparently some people claim turning it off is better for csgo. i couldn't notice any difference.

honestly it's really really hard to read other people's subjective observations and determine to what extent expectation bias and placebo-like effects are involved. (lol@audiophile community)

the first time i used windows 8.1, i was aware of the whole 125hz thing. when using the desktop, i could have sworn then that i was feeling a lot of additional input lag. from my testing with some barebones opengl programs, i was familiar with what 16ms of lag felt like, and at the time i would tell you that i felt that amount of additional input lag in windows 8.1 was definitely 16ms or more.

well anyway basically i did some measurements of input lag using my phone, and... well basically i concluded that my original feelings were completely in my own head. since then i've been very cautious with evaluating other people's subjective anecdotes.

but anyway, given the weird tearing behavior with my gtx 750ti and the numerous reports from people, there probably is something funky going on with nvidia's drivers and/or window's input system. it may be a very specific combination of graphics card + driver + game.

we're very fortunate that it is possible to exactly measure these things; whereas with audiophiles, if you present measurements that do not support their subjective impressions, they'll just fire back a bunch of semi-valid arguments like "you can't measure what i hear", "blind tests hide small differences", etc...

I think it's time to upgrade windows xp, if it's a problem that persist on newer versions on windows(you say you cant feel it, might not be there at all? it might be a windows xp bug with the drivers?)

windows xp still feels nice and crisp in a weird way even compared to windows 7 with compositing off. but it doesn't perform well when loaded.

i just threw everything out the window as i still have the problem even with rawinput, i've been playing a couple of days, saying to myself that rawinput does not have the problem, but mouse still felt like shit. Today i returned to old driver, and everything is fast and crisp again.

I've been reading about frame pacing, and i believe this bs benchmark trick is the reason. An article on techreport talks about how good it is at rendering small stutters when loading a texture here and there oh so good, and lists overall frame time ABOVE 30ms with it on, and 16ms off(as it should be) It's fucking bs. I don't wanna play a game with 30ms input time, that's just insane im in a really bad mood, fuck this bs, fuck nvidia, and the article mentions ati prototyping the same shit, and they will go down the shitter too with this, if we don't stop them, and no one will, because no one cares. REALLY bad mood

[stirner]

Trust me, with research on alternative input methods and especially head-mounted sensor-based input as well as augmented reality solutions, there's heavy R&D focus on reducing input latency. Be a little optimistic.

[war1]

Trust me, with research on alternative input methods and especially head-mounted sensor-based input as well as augmented reality solutions, there's heavy R&D focus on reducing input latency. Be a little optimistic.

I hope your optimism prevails as i've lost all hope for now. it's been years of research already with the virtual reality head mouting, but are you sure they go through the normal route of the driver? I have a suspicion it's possible to move priority of those sensors above frame time, but mouse is still below or something like that, i don't know.

[flood]

not related to nvidia but i just noticed this:

so i'm trying csgo on my laptop which has integrated graphics (hd3000). windows xp with 30-40 fps feels more responsive than windows 7 with 50-70.

[war1]

not related to nvidia but i just noticed this:

so i'm trying csgo on my laptop which has integrated graphics (hd3000). windows xp with 30-40 fps feels more responsive than windows 7 with 50-70.

Intel is not nvidia, so it is related to nvidia? or both on same laptop?

[war1]

anyway, now my focus is on frame metering: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topi ... e-thread-/

http://techreport.com/review/21516/insi ... marking/11
Frame metering sounds like a pretty cool technology, but there is a trade-off involved. To cushion jitter, Nvidia is increasing the amount of lag in the graphics subsystem.

I know the article is somewhat about sli, but i don't think it's limited to sli(frame metering) and im trying to get an ON/OFF feature from nvidia now. Right now it's always on, confirmed by manuelG which i contacted about this.

[flood]

if it's on for single-gpu............well that's just stupid

still though it shouldn't really affect games which run at >200fps.

maybe that explains why, with nvidia, i'd always get 2 frames of input lag in a double-buffered vsync'd test program whereas i'd get 1 frame with intel.

[RealNC]

if it's on for single-gpu............well that's just stupid

still though it shouldn't really affect games which run at >200fps.

maybe that explains why, with nvidia, i'd always get 2 frames of input lag in a double-buffered vsync'd test program whereas i'd get 1 frame with intel.

It doesn't depend on vsync being on, actually. Frame metering works just the same with vsync off, because the frame time variations were discovered by review sites and they are always benchmarking with vsync off.

This was only a problem with SLI. If NVidia is somehow enabling this on single-GPU configurations, that would be... well, stupid.