Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Adjusting BENQ Blur Reduction and DyAc (Dynamic Acceleration) including Blur Busters Strobe Utility. Supports most BenQ/Zowie Z-Series monitors (XL2411, XL2420, XL2720, XL2735, XL2540, XL2546)
Falkentyne
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by Falkentyne » 02 Jan 2015, 07:55

Two ways to remove the crosstalk at the very top:
1) use a strobe duty no higher than 003 (0.167ms , 0.333 ms or 0.5ms= strobe duty 001,002 or 003).

2) If at 100hz refresh rate and VT 1500 tweak, use a strobe phase to invert the top and bottom crosstalk positions: 059 strobe phase=strobe duty 001+strobe phase 000 inverted (0.167ms persistence), 058=strobe duty 002 inverted (0.333ms), 057=strobe duty 003 inverted (0.5ms), but with the strobing crosstalk pulse being raised 'up' from the bottom instead of the other way around. do not exceed 059. 060 blacks the screen.

For 120hz and a VT 1500 tweak, the limit is 049

Please note that the strobe pulse settling errors approaching the BOTTOM of the screen are less intense, but tend to cover a longer area, and cause "regular intense ghosting" as it drops down (lowering contrast actually helps a lot with this on some color transitions!), while the strobe pulse at the top of the screen has a much shorter (a LOT shorter, actually) error area, but is more intense much faster and causes intense inverse ghosting.

Visually, strobe phase 059 is fully 100% identical to strobe phase 000+strobe duty 001 (strobe phase 059 FORCES 0.167ms persistence, assuming a VT tweak, and will IGNORE all duty changes completely. strobe phase 060 shuts off the backlight due to 0ms persistence).
Strobe phase 058, ignores all persistence except 0.167ms (duty 1) and 0.333 ms (duty 2), however since you are moving the pulse errors higher up by going from 059 to 058, it's clearly NOT the exact same as going from strobe phase 001 to 002 (or duty 001 to 002 at phase 0).

100 hz Lightboost has accelerated scanout so the strobe pulses are fully off the screen top and bottom.
However 120hz Lightboost looks a lot like VT 1502+strobe phase 0+strobe duty 05, although much brighter (you can see part of the crosstalk errors at the very top of the screen at 120hz lightboost)

juice99
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by juice99 » 02 Jan 2015, 08:04

i'm not sure if i understand correctly but are you only talking in 1) about persistance settings 0.167ms , 0.333 ms or 0.5ms ? Or is it something different?

strobe duty = persistance?

i will use 2) since i use higher persistance, so i should just go to service menu and change strobe phase to 49? (i have 120Mhz 1500)

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masterotaku
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by masterotaku » 02 Jan 2015, 08:10

juice99 wrote:i'm not sure if i understand correctly but are you only talking in 1) about persistance settings 0.167ms , 0.333 ms or 0.5ms ? Or is it something different?
Yes, he was talking about persistence.
juice99 wrote:strobe duty = persistance?
Yes. Strobe duty, strobe length, persistence. Different terms for the same thing.

Edit: I see you edited your post. When you increase strobe phase, there's a point where it will start to turn down persistence. In my case, at 2.5ms persistence, the highest strobe phase without it changing persistence is 035.
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
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Motherboard: Gigabyte Gaming M5 Z270
Monitor: Asus PG278QR

Falkentyne
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by Falkentyne » 02 Jan 2015, 09:22

Yeah,
Basically, Vertical total tweaks accelerate the scanout (I had explained in a previous post that its like moving the 'vertical hold' bar offscreen off the bottom on an analog TV, while keeping the top of the screen the same, but it also changes the way the monitor reacts also.

Without VT tweaks, strobe phase works from 0-100, with 100 being somewhat "close" to the starting position of "0", but it seems like the image is 1 frame behind (or ahead), and strobe duty works at most refresh rates, although at some refresh rates and at high strobe duty increasing the strobe phase to 100 will lower the persistence, but only at "irregular" refresh rates (meaning NOT 60, 100, 120 and 144) will a 100 strobe phase or high strobe phase ever drop the persistence to 0.0ms (which will shut off the backlight).
This is for single strobe, of course.

50hz has an entirely different bug, where the backlight doesn't even active strobe pulses, but the current is increased anyway (most strobing backlights increase the voltage to the backlight for strobing, since luminance is cut so much) so the backlight GREATLY exceeds 450+cd/m2 (screen is rated for 300 cd/m2 maximum) and damage is almost certainly going to happen (sometimes the monitor will reset itself)

juice99
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by juice99 » 05 Jan 2015, 08:43

how can i make sure that specific game is actually using refresh rate 120 or 100? some don't show it at all in settings.

Also, in cru i added 100Mhz and 120Mhz as detailed resolution, because i assume that if one game doesn't support 120 it might support 100. If i prefer 120, should i put it on the top or at the bottom? because resolutions at the bottom have +/+ near it, and at the top just +/-

also, should i play games with vsync on?

Falkentyne
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by Falkentyne » 05 Jan 2015, 10:07

Here's the rule with custom resolutions.
If you add a custom res and refresh rate and then switch to that refresh rate on the desktop, and then load your game:
IF THE GAME IS DIRECTX 9, your game will *ALWAYS* use that custom resolution, the monitor will pick it up and show it in the OSD, IF it identifies it correctly.
Certain custom resolutions don't work right on the 2720Z while they may on the 2420Z. 1152x864@75 works and is identified as 1152x864@75, while 1152x864@100 is also identified as 1152x864@75 (but works).
1024x768 and 1280x1024, 640x480, 800x600 all work as they should, too.
1280x768/960 don't work at all if made as a custom resolution but sort of work if used by default. If you use this resolution without making a custom resolution (selecting it in the video driver directly), it shows 1280x1024 in the OSD, which works correctly, but the 1:1, 4:3 and aspect settings will be messed up. The 17" and 19" osd settings enforce a 4:3 which do work.
If you try creating a 1280x960 custom resolution, however, the monitor will think it's 640x960 (!), with the screen pixel size to match. Unusuable. But apparently the 2420Z will not do this.

There's a strange thing with 1440x1080, at 100hz (defined as a custom resolution), GPU scaling won't work by default in the video card driver panel AND the aspect and 1:1 settings are grayed out in the OSD, too! (so no scaling will work at all). Switch to 120hz and GPU scaling will work, however. (this is assuming GPU scaling isn't forced on for all resolutions).

Define 1440x1080@ 120hz as a custom resolution, and then the monitor will unlock and allow aspect/1:1 for display scaling, for 120hz (and then GPU scaling (but not display scaling) will work at 100hz) so you'll have scaling for both refresh rates.

juice99
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by juice99 » 05 Jan 2015, 11:38

Falkentyne wrote:Here's the rule with custom resolutions.
If you add a custom res and refresh rate and then switch to that refresh rate on the desktop, and then load your game:
IF THE GAME IS DIRECTX 9, your game will *ALWAYS* use that custom resolution, the monitor will pick it up and show it in the OSD, IF it identifies it correctly.
But after i applied vt tweak i think my monitor will show 60Mhz refresh rate even though it is really 120Mhz? This is what i see in OSD, even though it's set to 120Mhz in windows, in OSD it's 60Mhz in desktop.
Falkentyne wrote: Certain custom resolutions don't work right on the 2720Z while they may on the 2420Z. 1152x864@75 works and is identified as 1152x864@75, while 1152x864@100 is also identified as 1152x864@75 (but works).
1024x768 and 1280x1024, 640x480, 800x600 all work as they should, too.
1280x768/960 don't work at all if made as a custom resolution but sort of work if used by default. If you use this resolution without making a custom resolution (selecting it in the video driver directly), it shows 1280x1024 in the OSD, which works correctly, but the 1:1, 4:3 and aspect settings will be messed up. The 17" and 19" osd settings enforce a 4:3 which do work.
If you try creating a 1280x960 custom resolution, however, the monitor will think it's 640x960 (!), with the screen pixel size to match. Unusuable. But apparently the 2420Z will not do this.

There's a strange thing with 1440x1080, at 100hz (defined as a custom resolution), GPU scaling won't work by default in the video card driver panel AND the aspect and 1:1 settings are grayed out in the OSD, too! (so no scaling will work at all). Switch to 120hz and GPU scaling will work, however. (this is assuming GPU scaling isn't forced on for all resolutions).

Define 1440x1080@ 120hz as a custom resolution, and then the monitor will unlock and allow aspect/1:1 for display scaling, for 120hz (and then GPU scaling (but not display scaling) will work at 100hz) so you'll have scaling for both refresh rates.
i don't use any other resolution than 1920x1080 and you didn't describe it i think, does it mean there is no special rule regarding this resolution and my refresh rate will be the same as set on the desktop?

also, directx 9 is quite old, what about directx 10 and 11? and i'm still not sure which resolution in CRU will be used if i added two into detailed section - 1080p@120Mhz and 1080p@100Mhz. which one will be used as default one? one is added with +/+ another one with +/-

also, what about vsync?

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masterotaku
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by masterotaku » 05 Jan 2015, 13:01

juice99 wrote: But after i applied vt tweak i think my monitor will show 60Mhz refresh rate even though it is really 120Mhz? This is what i see in OSD, even though it's set to 120Mhz in windows, in OSD it's 60Mhz in desktop.
The OSD is lying because of the custom timings. Don't be bothered by it.
juice99 wrote:i don't use any other resolution than 1920x1080 and you didn't describe it i think, does it mean there is no special rule regarding this resolution and my refresh rate will be the same as set on the desktop?
It depends on the game. Most of them use the same Hz as the desktop (Skyrim, Bioshock games, Borderlands games, Source games, Far Cry games, STALKER, etc). Some of them have a refresh rate option, others force 60Hz (Street Fighter IV) and others (like Crysis 2) force the lowest refresh rate they can find.

I think Falkentyne mentioned the DirectX thing because most of his experience with it is the Crysis saga. Except in those games, I didn't find problems with dx10 and dx11 games.
juice99 wrote:also, what about vsync?
After buying my XL2411Z, which is my first monitor with blur reduction, I became a bit obsessed with perfect motion. I was a vsync off guy before, but now I always feel the need of vsync. Adaptive vsync is a very good option if you have a Nvidia GPU. If fps falls below the value of fps=Hz, vsync is disabled automatically until it reaches that number of fps again. If you have an AMD card, it's more of a compromise. You'd have to decide bewteen double buffering (fps halved if there are drops), triple buffering (fps don't halve, but there's noticeable stuttering) or vsync off (tearing).

If I had an AMD GPU, I would use vsync only if I knew my fps were going to be at fps=Hz most of the time. The advantage of these BenQ Z monitors is that you can have blur reduction at any Hz. If the number of fps you have to maintain is too high, just lower the refresh rate.
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
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Monitor: Asus PG278QR

Falkentyne
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by Falkentyne » 05 Jan 2015, 13:55

masterotaku wrote:
juice99 wrote: But after i applied vt tweak i think my monitor will show 60Mhz refresh rate even though it is really 120Mhz? This is what i see in OSD, even though it's set to 120Mhz in windows, in OSD it's 60Mhz in desktop.
The OSD is lying because of the custom timings. Don't be bothered by it.
juice99 wrote:i don't use any other resolution than 1920x1080 and you didn't describe it i think, does it mean there is no special rule regarding this resolution and my refresh rate will be the same as set on the desktop?
It depends on the game. Most of them use the same Hz as the desktop (Skyrim, Bioshock games, Borderlands games, Source games, Far Cry games, STALKER, etc). Some of them have a refresh rate option, others force 60Hz (Street Fighter IV) and others (like Crysis 2) force the lowest refresh rate they can find.

I think Falkentyne mentioned the DirectX thing because most of his experience with it is the Crysis saga. Except in those games, I didn't find problems with dx10 and dx11 games.
juice99 wrote:also, what about vsync?
After buying my XL2411Z, which is my first monitor with blur reduction, I became a bit obsessed with perfect motion. I was a vsync off guy before, but now I always feel the need of vsync. Adaptive vsync is a very good option if you have a Nvidia GPU. If fps falls below the value of fps=Hz, vsync is disabled automatically until it reaches that number of fps again. If you have an AMD card, it's more of a compromise. You'd have to decide bewteen double buffering (fps halved if there are drops), triple buffering (fps don't halve, but there's noticeable stuttering) or vsync off (tearing).

If I had an AMD GPU, I would use vsync only if I knew my fps were going to be at fps=Hz most of the time. The advantage of these BenQ Z monitors is that you can have blur reduction at any Hz. If the number of fps you have to maintain is too high, just lower the refresh rate.
In addition to what masterotaku said, remember some very modern games are STILL DX9.
Counterstrike: Go (CS:GO) is a DX9 game, and will thus work with custom resolutions that are scaled by the monitor. Some people want 4:3 resolutions in Counterstrike games because that's what they used in the CRT days or old LCD days in CS 1.6 and Source.

About OSD reporting 60 hz:
Monitors are not designed to work at out of specification timings.
When the benq monitors get a signal that is far from default settings, the backlight falls back to 60 hz pulse widths, instead of pulse widths for 100, 120 or 144 hz. The OSD will thus report the pulse widths as the refresh rate.

I suspect VT tweaks work due to how benq blur reduction works. Lightboost accelerates the scanout through the LC panel via hardware.
Certain VT's trigger lightboost if it's unlocked from 3d vision driver handshake (1138=100hz,1143=110 hz, 1149=120hz). Lightboost can work correctly up to 1175 VT at 120hz, but no idea if this improves strobe crosstalk distance at all from the default of 1149 VT as its done by the LC panel. 1200 VT gives an "Out of range" OSD message, with the screen still working perfectly anyway, lightboost doesn't activate here.
Go to 1300 or higher VT and the Out of range message no longer appears and Benq blur reduction crosstalk is improved, scanout is sped up and dot clock increases :) 1500 VT seems to be the limit for it to be reliable (1502 VT=absolute limit but bugs out at some refresh rates; iffy at 120hz 1502 VT), 1503 VT = "Black screen Out Of Range".

Just to let you know the VT's work solely due to Benq BR only:
the Asus VG248QE uses the exact same panel as the XL2411Z / XL2420Z, 1175 VT lightboost works at 120hz, but 1200 VT and anything higher= "Out of range" with black screen. Sure the panel itself can handle it but the asus scaler won't accept it...

juice99
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Re: Benq 2720Z no difference in blur reduction?

Post by juice99 » 12 Jan 2015, 14:35

thank you for your help, but i've noticed another problem - when i move text in any browser (Firefox or Chrome) it is maybe not blurred, but not clear to read. It hapens if i scroll it either diagonally or horizontally. i can clearly see text/images/ufos in all tests via ufotest.com page, but on any other random page with text when i scroll text even not that fast (although not slowly neither) it's unreadable. What could be the reason of that?

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