vt trick on non native Resolutions
-
ScHn3tZ4t0r
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 20 May 2015, 00:09
vt trick on non native Resolutions
Hi, this is my first post on this forum. However, i am a long time lurker on this forum, and i don't google Problems related to monitors at all or input lag, i just come here and see what you wrote here. I also bought a Benq xl2411z for the mbr, i have firmware 3 and it is awesome ... at 1920*1080 p with the vt 1502 trick. As a counter strike player (my only game), i decided to play on 4:3 streched and went for 1440*1080@120hz with the vt trick. Mbr was not THAT clean in the middle, but acceptable. I currently play on a gts 450, card sucks and i need a new one, i know, but 1024*768 gave me a great Performance boost and ... the Resolution is AWESOME. There is just one Problem. The motion blur reduction isn't as clear as 1080p. I have troubles using a vt trick and without one it looks horrible. In your glorious program, i set the first slider to 1.5 ms and the second slinder to the very left. Can you help me?
-
lexlazootin
- Posts: 1251
- Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 02:57
Re: vt trick on non native Resolutions
Try moving the second slider till it's clean in the middle.
use this if needed.
http://testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=al ... &height=-1
use this if needed.
http://testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=al ... &height=-1
-
Falkentyne
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: vt trick on non native Resolutions
tl;dr: (quick answer):
Create custom resolution (manual): 1440x1080@60hz, 1125 default vertical total (delete the old one), switch to 1440x1080@100 or 120hz (whichever one had your VT Tweak for 1920x1080!!), then select 1:1 or aspect in video card drivers.
Ah ok I know what's going on here.
Did you try creating 1440x1080 as custom resolution with a VT 1502 tweak?
If I recall, there are issues when creating lower resolutions with VT tweaks.
I think VT tweaks will ONLY work if the vertical screen size is 1080 (so 1440x1080 will technically work) however the only way to get strobe adjustments to work is to go in the service menu and set single strobe to ON.
But there are other issues.
I did this briefly and got it to work, but it simply wasn't worth it.
I actually tested it out for you right now.
Here's the problem in a nutshell.
If you create a CUSTOM 1440x1080 resolution with a 100hz refresh rate and a 1500 vertical total (330.00 MHz pixel bandwidth exactly), it will work and you will have no crosstalk. The problem is:
1) it will be full screen, which makes it utterly worthless (the entire reason for 1440x1080 is for 1:1 pixel mapping on 4:3 without black borders at the bottom of the screen).
2) The monitor scaling settings (picture advanced->display mode) no longer work correctly, because the change in vertical total completely messes up the monitor scaler. You can already see this when you use 1920x1080 with a VT...notice that at 1920x1080, the "aspect" setting is NOT greyed out at your 100 or 120hz 1502 VT setting? You're at native resolution ! aspect should NOT be available to be changed! But the vertical total was changed from 1125 to 1502, which basically makes the monitor scaler think that the vertical size is now 1440p instead of 1080p! (this is why the crosstalk at the bottom gets pushed off screen when using a VT 1502 tweak). The 'aspect' osd setting is available whenever the monitor gets a vertical signal that is 'less' than its native resolution. (aspect simply extends the screen to prevent black bars around the top and bottom, while keeping them at the left and right). But because the scaler now thinks the vertical is (1280x1440 to be exact; the reason for this is in another post I wrote about vertical totals; you can find it if you look), but the resolution being sent by the videocard is a 1080p resolution, aspect suddenly becomes available (and the OSD reports 60hz because it thinks its at a strange resolution). Then if you select "aspect" at your 1920x1080 100 or 120hz with VT 1502, suddenly the screen 'shrinks' to a strange size and the crosstalk suddenly becomes massive (that's because aspect should NOT be available in the first place).
Now at the 1440x1080@100 hz, VT 1500 res you just created, if you go to 'aspect', the screen becomes 1:1, yes, but the crosstalk is suddenly blurry and massive below the middle, because the scaler is confused by the change in VT. Basically, the vertical total tweak no longer is functioning. So there's really no point to it.
The CORRECT thing to do is this.
The quick and easy way is:
Create a 1440x1080@60hz custom resolution in CRU (manual timings), 1125 vertical total (default).
Then switch to 1440x1080@100 or 1440x1080@120.
Because you created a 60hz custom resolution and NOT a 100 or 120hz one, the VIDEO CARD will automatically use GPU scaling and will downsample this from a 1920x1080.
if you have a vertical total tweak active,it will use the existing 1920x1080 VT and the video card will scale it to 1440x1080.
Then go to the video card scaling options and select Aspect or 1:1 (both will be identical, since 1080 matches the monitor size).
Then you'll have no crosstalk.
For lower resolutions that already exist, like 1024x768, 1152x864 and 1280x1024, due to extreme difficulties in creating those with VT tweaks, just enable GPU SCALING And (as above) use the GPU scaling options to set the aspect settings. Then you'll (again) have 1024x768, 1280x1024, using your VT tweaks and the video card will downsample it for you. If you want a 1:1 pixel mapped image, select 1:1.
Now if you decide you do NOT want to use a VT Tweak at 1440x1080, but you want the OSD (monitor) to scale it for you, then create a 1440x1080 @ 120hz custom detailed resolution. (default timings).
Then if you select 1440x1080@120, the monitor will give a 'suggested resolution" popup, and you can use the OSD scaling functions to select 1:1 or aspect. (No VT tweak will be active).
But if you select 1440x1080@100 (because this was not the custom refresh rate you created), this will be GPU Scaled from 1920x1080, and any vertical tweak you have till be applied and downsampled and you use the video card drivers to select 1:1 or aspect.
(again if you want both 100hz and 120hz to have VT tweaks, create a 60hz 1440x1080).
there seem to be some bugs with this however.
with a custom 60hz 1440x1080, the video drivers see the the monitor will scale it (so aspect and 1:1 wont do anything in the drivers), but the OSD will have aspect and 1:1 greyed out.
The SAME thing happens if you create 1440x1080@100 hz as a custom resolution. Video card sees it's monitor scaled, monitor has aspect and 1:1 greyed out.
Yet, create [email protected] has aspect and 1:1 both available to be selected (and the video card correctly sees the monitor is scaling so the driver options are ignored).
Create custom resolution (manual): 1440x1080@60hz, 1125 default vertical total (delete the old one), switch to 1440x1080@100 or 120hz (whichever one had your VT Tweak for 1920x1080!!), then select 1:1 or aspect in video card drivers.
Ah ok I know what's going on here.
Did you try creating 1440x1080 as custom resolution with a VT 1502 tweak?
If I recall, there are issues when creating lower resolutions with VT tweaks.
I think VT tweaks will ONLY work if the vertical screen size is 1080 (so 1440x1080 will technically work) however the only way to get strobe adjustments to work is to go in the service menu and set single strobe to ON.
But there are other issues.
I did this briefly and got it to work, but it simply wasn't worth it.
I actually tested it out for you right now.
Here's the problem in a nutshell.
If you create a CUSTOM 1440x1080 resolution with a 100hz refresh rate and a 1500 vertical total (330.00 MHz pixel bandwidth exactly), it will work and you will have no crosstalk. The problem is:
1) it will be full screen, which makes it utterly worthless (the entire reason for 1440x1080 is for 1:1 pixel mapping on 4:3 without black borders at the bottom of the screen).
2) The monitor scaling settings (picture advanced->display mode) no longer work correctly, because the change in vertical total completely messes up the monitor scaler. You can already see this when you use 1920x1080 with a VT...notice that at 1920x1080, the "aspect" setting is NOT greyed out at your 100 or 120hz 1502 VT setting? You're at native resolution ! aspect should NOT be available to be changed! But the vertical total was changed from 1125 to 1502, which basically makes the monitor scaler think that the vertical size is now 1440p instead of 1080p! (this is why the crosstalk at the bottom gets pushed off screen when using a VT 1502 tweak). The 'aspect' osd setting is available whenever the monitor gets a vertical signal that is 'less' than its native resolution. (aspect simply extends the screen to prevent black bars around the top and bottom, while keeping them at the left and right). But because the scaler now thinks the vertical is (1280x1440 to be exact; the reason for this is in another post I wrote about vertical totals; you can find it if you look), but the resolution being sent by the videocard is a 1080p resolution, aspect suddenly becomes available (and the OSD reports 60hz because it thinks its at a strange resolution). Then if you select "aspect" at your 1920x1080 100 or 120hz with VT 1502, suddenly the screen 'shrinks' to a strange size and the crosstalk suddenly becomes massive (that's because aspect should NOT be available in the first place).
Now at the 1440x1080@100 hz, VT 1500 res you just created, if you go to 'aspect', the screen becomes 1:1, yes, but the crosstalk is suddenly blurry and massive below the middle, because the scaler is confused by the change in VT. Basically, the vertical total tweak no longer is functioning. So there's really no point to it.
The CORRECT thing to do is this.
The quick and easy way is:
Create a 1440x1080@60hz custom resolution in CRU (manual timings), 1125 vertical total (default).
Then switch to 1440x1080@100 or 1440x1080@120.
Because you created a 60hz custom resolution and NOT a 100 or 120hz one, the VIDEO CARD will automatically use GPU scaling and will downsample this from a 1920x1080.
if you have a vertical total tweak active,it will use the existing 1920x1080 VT and the video card will scale it to 1440x1080.
Then go to the video card scaling options and select Aspect or 1:1 (both will be identical, since 1080 matches the monitor size).
Then you'll have no crosstalk.
For lower resolutions that already exist, like 1024x768, 1152x864 and 1280x1024, due to extreme difficulties in creating those with VT tweaks, just enable GPU SCALING And (as above) use the GPU scaling options to set the aspect settings. Then you'll (again) have 1024x768, 1280x1024, using your VT tweaks and the video card will downsample it for you. If you want a 1:1 pixel mapped image, select 1:1.
Now if you decide you do NOT want to use a VT Tweak at 1440x1080, but you want the OSD (monitor) to scale it for you, then create a 1440x1080 @ 120hz custom detailed resolution. (default timings).
Then if you select 1440x1080@120, the monitor will give a 'suggested resolution" popup, and you can use the OSD scaling functions to select 1:1 or aspect. (No VT tweak will be active).
But if you select 1440x1080@100 (because this was not the custom refresh rate you created), this will be GPU Scaled from 1920x1080, and any vertical tweak you have till be applied and downsampled and you use the video card drivers to select 1:1 or aspect.
(again if you want both 100hz and 120hz to have VT tweaks, create a 60hz 1440x1080).
there seem to be some bugs with this however.
with a custom 60hz 1440x1080, the video drivers see the the monitor will scale it (so aspect and 1:1 wont do anything in the drivers), but the OSD will have aspect and 1:1 greyed out.
The SAME thing happens if you create 1440x1080@100 hz as a custom resolution. Video card sees it's monitor scaled, monitor has aspect and 1:1 greyed out.
Yet, create [email protected] has aspect and 1:1 both available to be selected (and the video card correctly sees the monitor is scaling so the driver options are ignored).
-
Falkentyne
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: vt trick on non native Resolutions
It won't work. he wants 1:1 pixel mapping and the monitor scaling functions won't work correctly with vertical total tweaks.lexlazootin wrote:Try moving the second slider till it's clean in the middle.
use this if needed.
http://testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=al ... &height=-1
The scaler thinks that 1920x1080 with a 1502 VT is actually 1280x1440, which messes up the OSD "picture mode" scaling options (Due to the increase in vertical total)
Read my post above. he needs to GPU scale his 1440x1080 from 1920x1080 (easiest way is by creating a 1440x1080@60hz custom resolution, then anything else (100, 120hz, etc) will be automatically GPU scaled and will use the 1920x1080 VT settings.
-
ScHn3tZ4t0r
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 20 May 2015, 00:09
Re: vt trick on non native Resolutions
I won't use gpu scaling, it adds a massive input lag, i'd rather play on 60hz than with gpu scaling. I already have a 1440x1080@120hz Resolution, the problem is just that the midlle isn't TOTALLY clear. And i relly want to try 1024x768@120hz with a clear middle. But thank you for answeringFalkentyne wrote:It won't work. he wants 1:1 pixel mapping and the monitor scaling functions won't work correctly with vertical total tweaks.lexlazootin wrote:Try moving the second slider till it's clean in the middle.
use this if needed.
http://testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=al ... &height=-1
The scaler thinks that 1920x1080 with a 1502 VT is actually 1280x1440, which messes up the OSD "picture mode" scaling options (Due to the increase in vertical total)
Read my post above. he needs to GPU scale his 1440x1080 from 1920x1080 (easiest way is by creating a 1440x1080@60hz custom resolution, then anything else (100, 120hz, etc) will be automatically GPU scaled and will use the 1920x1080 VT settings.
-
Falkentyne
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: vt trick on non native Resolutions
Are you using an Nvidia card?
someone before said the NVidia drivers add bad lag while the AMD drivers don't.
Because on AMD I tested gpu scaling and display scaling...no difference.
But there is extra input lag when the monitor scaling functions are used for different screen sizes (17", 19", etc).
someone before said the NVidia drivers add bad lag while the AMD drivers don't.
Because on AMD I tested gpu scaling and display scaling...no difference.
But there is extra input lag when the monitor scaling functions are used for different screen sizes (17", 19", etc).
Re: vt trick on non native Resolutions
Hello,
sorry for hijacking this post First i will provide some infos about my setup:
Monitor: Benq 2411Z
Firmware: V2 ( should i upgrade it to v4? )
Desired Res: 1440x1080 @ 120 Hz with BlurReduction
GPU: Nvidia 970 GTX
ATM i am running this settings with a custom resolution and VT of 1350, but now i noticed that my OSD is reporting that i run 1440x1080 with only 60Hz. When i enable Vsync in CS:GO it will cap the fps at 120. So is the OSD report wrong??
While reading this forums i saw that many guys recommend a VT setting of 1500 or 1502. Will i get improvements with this settings, or do they even work.
I hope you can provide me some clarification or some extra information to get the best settings for my monitor.
greetings,
maefju
sorry for hijacking this post
First i will provide some infos about my setup:Monitor: Benq 2411Z
Firmware: V2 ( should i upgrade it to v4? )
Desired Res: 1440x1080 @ 120 Hz with BlurReduction
GPU: Nvidia 970 GTX
ATM i am running this settings with a custom resolution and VT of 1350, but now i noticed that my OSD is reporting that i run 1440x1080 with only 60Hz. When i enable Vsync in CS:GO it will cap the fps at 120. So is the OSD report wrong??
While reading this forums i saw that many guys recommend a VT setting of 1500 or 1502. Will i get improvements with this settings, or do they even work.
I hope you can provide me some clarification or some extra information to get the best settings for my monitor.
greetings,
maefju
-
Falkentyne
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: vt trick on non native Resolutions
OSD will always report 60hz when a VT tweak is used because the 60hz persistence pulse widths are used if the VT is out of specification (this is not the same as refresh rate). This was fixed in the XL2430T. So don't use the OSD to judge the refresh rate.
Even some non VT custom refresh rates aren't reported correctly. If you define 1152x864 in CRU as a standard resolution (so it becomes display scaled instead of gpu downsample scaled from 1920x1080), if you defined 1152x864@100hz, the OSD reports 1152x864@75, even though the refresh rate is 100.
VT 1500/1502 is better as you will have less strobe crosstalk, but may require the pixel clock patcher if the pixel clock exceeds 330.00 MHz and the horizontal total may need to be lowered from 2200 to 2080 if you get display cable corruption (e.g. swimming pixels) to lower the pixel clock if 396 MHz is too high (at 120hz). Front porch and sync width will be 48,3 and 32,5 instead of 88, and 44,5 for 2080 HT.
Even some non VT custom refresh rates aren't reported correctly. If you define 1152x864 in CRU as a standard resolution (so it becomes display scaled instead of gpu downsample scaled from 1920x1080), if you defined 1152x864@100hz, the OSD reports 1152x864@75, even though the refresh rate is 100.
VT 1500/1502 is better as you will have less strobe crosstalk, but may require the pixel clock patcher if the pixel clock exceeds 330.00 MHz and the horizontal total may need to be lowered from 2200 to 2080 if you get display cable corruption (e.g. swimming pixels) to lower the pixel clock if 396 MHz is too high (at 120hz). Front porch and sync width will be 48,3 and 32,5 instead of 88, and 44,5 for 2080 HT.
Re: vt trick on non native Resolutions
thank you very much! I indeed had to lower the horizontal total to 2080, because i got floating pixels with 2200. now i am really happy with this settings, its incredible that you can squeeze so much out of a monitor just with configs. Do you think i can improve it even further if i upgrade my firmware from v2 to v4 or isn't it worth the hassle?
-
Falkentyne
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: vt trick on non native Resolutions
V4 firmware adds a new AMA high toggle setting which reduces inverse ghosting overshoot when you set AMA To high AFTER blur reduction has been enabled beforehand, overriding the default settings. (In V2, this just makes the overshoot much more excessive), in V4 this makes the overshoot less and much better, along with lowering contrast as well to make it even better.
V4 firmware also fixes loss of DP signal (XL2420Z and XL2720Z) and fixes single strobe off always enforcing single strobe and allowing custom strobe adjustments at 100hz-144hz refresh rate, making the "single strobe" setting now (correctly) only apply to lower than 100hz. (this basically makes the checkbox in the windows blur busters utility redundant, as this firmware feature is now 'fixed' so 100-144hz ALWAYS single strobes even if the option is off (in V4).
In V2, having single strobe off would prevent custom strobe adjustments from kicking in at 100+hz refresh rate, if blur reduction were set from off to on (that's why the checkbox existed in the windows utility AND why changing a slider in the windows utility automatically enabled the checkmark (the checkbox = single strobe "on"). This was done to avoid the bug happening in V2. The single strobe on/off setting was supposed to only apply to refresh rates lower than 100hz, and now that was fixed to work as intended in V4.
V4 firmware also fixes loss of DP signal (XL2420Z and XL2720Z) and fixes single strobe off always enforcing single strobe and allowing custom strobe adjustments at 100hz-144hz refresh rate, making the "single strobe" setting now (correctly) only apply to lower than 100hz. (this basically makes the checkbox in the windows blur busters utility redundant, as this firmware feature is now 'fixed' so 100-144hz ALWAYS single strobes even if the option is off (in V4).
In V2, having single strobe off would prevent custom strobe adjustments from kicking in at 100+hz refresh rate, if blur reduction were set from off to on (that's why the checkbox existed in the windows utility AND why changing a slider in the windows utility automatically enabled the checkmark (the checkbox = single strobe "on"). This was done to avoid the bug happening in V2. The single strobe on/off setting was supposed to only apply to refresh rates lower than 100hz, and now that was fixed to work as intended in V4.