Just bought XL2411z, banding issue, ghosting ++

Adjusting BENQ Blur Reduction and DyAc (Dynamic Acceleration) including Blur Busters Strobe Utility. Supports most BenQ/Zowie Z-Series monitors (XL2411, XL2420, XL2720, XL2735, XL2540, XL2546)
Falkentyne
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Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by Falkentyne » 02 Dec 2015, 07:10

Are you talking about overdrive artifacts? As in an inverted or transparent copy of the original image?
or are you talking about a laggy stutter screen? Please don't mix up the terms.

Are you talking about images that look like these?

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/5606/6/ ... t-samplen2

RobOhm
Posts: 21
Joined: 01 Dec 2015, 23:53

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by RobOhm » 02 Dec 2015, 07:53

Both I guess.

I mean the ufo test show's afterimages, 1 iirc. And ingame (csgo) the textures (walls, objects) look and feel kinda stuttery, when moving and turning and some edges have massive tearing/aliasing (not sure wich term is right there).

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by Falkentyne » 02 Dec 2015, 08:59

You need to enable Vsync (always with motion blur reduction strobed backlights) and keep framerate equal to refresh rate at all times or you will have stuttering. You also need to adjust your tic or the server tic timers to make sure the game can actually render at your framerate. Having a low tic can cause it to render at a lower FPS than what the refresh rate is. You would not believe how many CS players try to play at 144hz with vsync on and have a tic that limits the engine to 120 fps :( etc etc....

Overdrive ghosting can be improved by about 10% by setting contrast to 40, enabling blur reduction and AFTERWARDS Setting AMA to "high" even if it's on high beforehand (i mentioned this in my post on general section).

RobOhm
Posts: 21
Joined: 01 Dec 2015, 23:53

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by RobOhm » 03 Dec 2015, 00:50

Ok i've been doodling around again and i've gotten the monitor close to how i want it in csgo but not quite.

Windows res; 1920x1080 125hz (no vt tweak just hz to 125)

When i capped my fps to 125 ingame it feels pretty damn smooth but not perfect as the MBR still reduces the brightness too much and more than 1.5 ms persistance in BBSU gives to much "blur" and stuff again.

Got my brightness ingame to max, monitor to 85, contrast 40, tried the AMA "trick" but I never notice it at all

idk what to do, using the photo preset of the monitor gives good colors but it's still to damn dark and dim :? :?

Would a vt tweak work with 125hz? or do i really have to use 120 to get that little brightness boost¨

If you're confused about the blur ingame i'm talking about i'll try to clarify:

Say i'm standing still looking at an object, its 1 object. If i move or turn fast it's like 3 of them and this makes it really hard on my eyes and reactions when i can't clearly see what is around me when i turn. This applies to textures on the walls, stairs, ledges, anything really.

Is this ghosting? afterimages? i have no idea, you tell me!

RobOhm
Posts: 21
Joined: 01 Dec 2015, 23:53

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by RobOhm » 03 Dec 2015, 01:53

Is there _any_ of the testufo.com tests I should screenshot/gif for you?

Multiple tests aren't accurate i think.

edit: using the custom res for 125hz for a while now and i can clearly see "pulsing" or vibrating frome every pixel on the screen, VERY noticable when looking at a grey image. This can't be good for my eyes or my monitor? Having to go back to standard 1920x1080 120hz (can't keep 144fps consistant ingame) until you can help me out here

sidenote; my rig is pretty good, my can't i maintain 144 fps in csgo?

got a gtx 770, i7 3770 all unparked cores, 16gb ram, am i missing something? should have freaking 500+ fps constant IMO....

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by Falkentyne » 03 Dec 2015, 08:10

RobOhm wrote:Is there _any_ of the testufo.com tests I should screenshot/gif for you?

Multiple tests aren't accurate i think.

edit: using the custom res for 125hz for a while now and i can clearly see "pulsing" or vibrating frome every pixel on the screen, VERY noticable when looking at a grey image. This can't be good for my eyes or my monitor? Having to go back to standard 1920x1080 120hz (can't keep 144fps consistant ingame) until you can help me out here

sidenote; my rig is pretty good, my can't i maintain 144 fps in csgo?

got a gtx 770, i7 3770 all unparked cores, 16gb ram, am i missing something? should have freaking 500+ fps constant IMO....

Rob:
If you see pulsing, it means the monitor doesn't like the VT. It also means that you are getting frameskipping as well.
It should be obvious on this test with blur reduction enabled. if you get repeated stutters and the bottom does not say that there is stuttering and you have no other open programs, its frameskipping.
Instead of looking for pulsating, use the alien invasion test. What you're really seeing is frameskip. Because it's happening with blur reduction off, also. it's just easier to see with it enabled.

http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&phot ... &height=-1

So you must change the VT to a different value.
Every VT "range" will have one VT that the monitor likes, and this varies from monitor type.
On the XL2720Z for example, VT 1497 is best for 125hz.
But for 120hz, VT 1500 and VT 1499 are best. VT 1502 will sometimes pulsate. VT 1500 and VT 1499 never pulsate.
For 100 hz, VT 1500 and VT 1502 are good. In the "Lower" VT range, only VT 1354 is perfect. the recommend VT 1350 pulsates (But doesn't pulsate at 120hz).

For 85hz, everything pulsates except VT 1501, which is perfect. I didn't test the lower VT range but I think 1350 is ok.

The "High" VT range is 1497-1502. Every value in this range is identical effect, but one value might work and the one next to it may cause frameskipping or pulsating.

The "Low" VT range is 1340-1360 (less amount of crosstalk reduction). Note at 60hz and 72 hz and 75hz refresh rates, you are limited to this range.

RobOhm
Posts: 21
Joined: 01 Dec 2015, 23:53

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by RobOhm » 03 Dec 2015, 15:37

Right i've given up on vt and i play without MBR cus i don't understand how to make it good, no matter how much i read or try.

Still fucked up at standard settings i feel. Running 144hz 1920x1080 windows and 1440x900 16:10 ingame res.

The walls, objects etc stutter or create afterimages or frameskipping.
I can't tell the difference but it doesnt look good when turning and looking around.
Don't get me wrong it feels like 144hz and all that, it feels smooth.
But the textures and shit don't look it, when turning and moving around.
The walls, objects etc stutter or create afterimages or it's frameskipping, possibly tearing alot? I can't tell the difference.

For the record my game feels a little bit smoother and better when i'm not on teamspeak, could this be something?
Even when scrolling up and down in the friends list in csgo it lags and stutters, what the hell is this??

The monitor?
gpu possibly?

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by Falkentyne » 03 Dec 2015, 19:04

It's overdrive RTA artifacts.

I mentioned in my thread how to reduce them.
In order to reduce them (Overdrive artifacts) with blur reduction *ENABLED*, by about 10%, you need to 1) enable blur reduction, 2) Set AMA to high after turning on blur reduction (you can do this easily by moving AMA to off/premium then back to high or just pressing back/cancel). This is an UNDOCUMENTED "tweak."

In order to reduce the overdrive artifacts with blur reduction disabled requires exploiting a profile bug.
1) save a "standard mode" preset with AMA set to high, contrast set to 40-50, and blur reduction set to OFF, and brightness set to a comfortable 20-50, to a gamer preset (1-3), like gamer preset 1.

2) Save another preset with the same settings, but have blur reduction *enabled* (this is for convenience), like gamer preset 2.

(you can understand this right? its simple. I explained it clearly).

Now, activate profile 2 so blur reduction is enabled.
Now do the trick I said at the start of this message about forcing the AMA "lower" (enable blur reduction, set AMA to high after).
So now you have blur reduction enabled with AMA slightly lower.

After you do that, then switch to profile #1 (the blur reduction OFF) preset.
Do NOT turn off blur reduction! Just switch to the profile you saved with blur reduction off.
This will turn off blur reduction but keep the AMA "tweak" you just did (this is a bug exploit).
See if this helps.

ANY CHANGE TO RESOLUTION OR REFRSEH RATE or if you toggle on blur reduction again will reset the AMA Back to default levels.

I hope you can understand this. it's the best I can do. I explained it clearly and perfectly.

This tweak works on the Xl2420Z and XL2411Z, however it doesn't remove all of the RTA overdrive artifacts. It just makes it more tolerable.

On the XL2720Z, for some reason, if you do this for the blur reduction disabled mode, it removes *ALL* and I mean *ALL* overdrive artifacts, making the overdrive look like Asus Tracefree=40 (which is much nicer). Worth noting that doing the blur reduction / AMA toggle on XL2720Z reduces the overdrive artifacts far far more than on the 24" versions also (which explains why the blur reduction off/profile toggle has a much greater effect).

RobOhm
Posts: 21
Joined: 01 Dec 2015, 23:53

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by RobOhm » 08 Dec 2015, 12:23

Thank you, i've followed the steps and it feels abit better, not sure if the AMA tweak works since nothing visible to me changes atleast, don't know if this is normal.

By the way; what is the strobe phase/duty supposed to be? I think i fiddled with it.. My desktop and videos don't look right at times.

for example: https://gyazo.com/e49721d84afd9e4b165f21d324c88376 maybe the squiggly grey to black thing is normal..? idk

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Just bought XL2411z, ghosting issue++ Help!

Post by Falkentyne » 08 Dec 2015, 15:27

The AMA "toggle" simply lowers the amount of overdrive ghosting by a small amount. On the XL2720Z it lowers it by a drastic amount.
You would need to be running the testUFO full screen ghosting or alien invasion test and then try it before and after. (I'm talking about the toggle of 1) enabling blur reduction, 2) moving AMA slider to off/premium then back to high). You should see the inverse ghosting lowered slightly (this is assuming you are using contrast 40. 40 already improves things compared to 50).

http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&phot ... &height=-1

I explained what strobe phase and strobe duty in my large post about VT Tweaks and strobe information. I don't think I need to keep repeating what's already been said. Duty=strobe width (how long the backlight is shut off vs how long the backlight is shut on, during each frame; longer off periods increase blur reduction but make the screen dimmer. The total strobe time equals the refresh rate frame time).

Strobe phase is the timing when the strobe starts during a frame. HIGHER (not lower, unlike what Chief's windows utility says) values of strobe phase start the strobe EARLIER, while lower values of strobe phase start it later in the frame. A strobe phase of 000 starts the strobe 1 frame "behind" the current frame (e.g. 1 frame of input lag is added). A strobe phase of 100, or the phase value before the backlight shuts off (if a VT Tweak is being used) starts the strobe in the current frame (at the cost of more crosstalk at the bottom of the screen).

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