Just bought XL2411z, banding issue, ghosting ++

[RobOhm]

Hi, as the title implies i get ghosting when I do the testufo. I dont know if the level of ghosting i'm getting is normal or not but i'd like to get it and other stuff checked out.

As my first 144hz screen i got no idea what i'm doing when it comes to settings, and also should I use 125hz, 120 or 144 for csgo? My resolution ingame is 1440x1080. I heard 125hz is good cus of mouse polling rates, not really any arguments for 120 or 144 other then smoothness? And should I use "Scale by screen" or "Scale by GPU"?

After googling and kanoodling i ended up with these settings;

Picture Mode: Standard
Colors: R/100 G/92 B/100
Brightness: 100
Contrast: 40
LBL: 5
Blur Reduction: On
Sharpness: 5
Gamma: 5
Instant mode: On
AMA: High
FirmWare Version: V004
Hdmi hpd: on (?)
DVI hpd: off (?)
Strobe duty: 009
Strobe phase: 000
Single strobe: on

1920x1080 @ 120 hz with vertical 1502 thingy. (Do i have to update some pixel clock? Not done that yet)

Lastly Blur Busters Strobe Utility is set to;

Persistence: 1.5ms
Crosstalk: All the way to the left

computer specs:

Gtx 770
i7 3770 cpu
16 gb ram
250 gb HD
1 Terra SSD


-

Does this look good? Too bad because I want better!

The colors are pretty washed out, screens to dark, ghosting (only see it in the ufo test tbh.), jaggy/stuttery edges in csgo (not rly tried any other game)

Im really willing to pay or even boost someone if they would help me out on ts or skype (if needed) or even over steam, i just need someone to grab my settings by the balls and straighten them out. I've been reading alot about everything involving this monitor but i just can't wrap my head around it and i'm pretty sure there are some things that could be improved.

I really don't have a clue what i'm doing with this monitor, help !

edit: is it normal to see screentearing in this test? http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-text ( i get TONS of browser stutter warnings eventho I got nothing else running ) and the fps dips from 144 to 141-142-143 every so often, and micro-stutter is a long time "friend" of mine i'd reaaally like to get totally rid off somehow.

[Falkentyne]

Your VT tweak is not working. You need the AMD or Nvidia pixel clock patcher. the screen is dark because it's using normal persistence values (0.083 ms per strobe duty point) when it should be using 0.167ms (you can see from the numbers that that is a higher duration persistence=thus brighter screen).

You can check the monitor OSD information under System. if it says 100hz or 120hz then VT is not active. If it says 60hz then it's working. (hint: 16.7 ms divided by 100 is 0.167ms persistence. That's why 60hz will be reported).

http://www.monitortests.com/

When the pixel clock patcher is installed, the driver level dual link DVI limit of 330 MHz is removed.

You should also know that using a VT that is higher than default not only forces the backlight to use 60hz strobe pulse widths (as explained here: http://display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/BenQ_XL2411Z

but also limits the maximum strobe phase (this depends on the refresh rate; usually it's 100 at default values).
which is explained here, along with how to enter the service menu and change the single strobe and not be limited to 047 strobe phase.

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467

Also note that the windows strobe utility is technically incorrect.
100 strobe phase is an EARLIER STROBE PHASE (1 frame LOWER input lag).
0 strobe phase is a *LATER* strobe phase (1 frame HIGHER input lag).

When using a VT change, 100 is changed to a lower limit which I already explained in my post and link. Please read it. Don't expect to understand everything at once. Eventually with time it will be easy.

[RobOhm]

Yeah I figured it was not working and tbh, I've forgotten how to apply it again .

I really need baby steps as all this lingo is just making me so confused. I have no idea what a strobe phase is, what a VT is, OSD info, ghosting (barely starting to understand that) etc.

Could you just tell me what to put?

I just want the clearest image possible with the lowest ammount of blur while moving in-game. And have it not be as dark as the night.
I got no idea what monitor settings are best, what tweaks are best, and what resolution is best.
Scale by GPU or scale by Screen? Fullscreen, scale, no scale? 120hz, 125hz, 144hz? 100?? so many different opinions, i just don't know!

And I appreciate you taking the time to write all this info for me but I just can't make anything off it. :/

And uhm, this is an important question; I see this type of shimmer off my desktop background (standard windows thing), the white light f.ex that originates from different places is breaking off into "half circles", clearly going from lighter to darker shades. It's really visible and I did not expect this from this kind of monitor. Normal or is my shit fucked up? If you need a screenshot to understand i'll get you one.

[RobOhm]

Did the pixel clock, remembered the VT, checked the monitor and it said @60hz.

Problem is the screen did not get any brighter, at all.

https://gyazo.com/edf98f0b61736d055108ea716a99d340, anything wrong?


edit 1: "Fixed the VT trick by putting 1501 instead, it increased brightness, slightly... Still too dark and dim for my taste though
edit 2: When i switch from the custom res to the native res the color scheme sometimes changes to Thousands instead of Millions. Any idea why this is? Really annoying to change it manually everytime, this can't be intended?

[Falkentyne]

If less than 100hz refresh rate, enable single strobe in the service menu.
For 100hz-144hz, you must adjust persistence to balance blur reduction amount with screen brightness.
The longer the "on" period during a strobe, the brighter the screen, but the less blur reduction you will have.
Remember a strobe is an on+off cycle that occurs once per refresh (single strobe) or twice per refresh (double strobe).
If the refresh rate is 100 hz, this is 10ms of frame time (1000 divided by refresh rate or 1000 divided by 100=10 ms).

So the strobe will occur once every 10ms. Every 10ms, the backlight will shut on and off one cycle.

The persistence amount is how long the backlight remains ON during this cycle.
Let's use 100hz refresh rate as an example.

Example (assuming VT tweak is in use), @100hz refresh rate, the persistence is based on 0.167 milliseconds (fun fact: this is 60hz divided by 100, or 16.7 milliseconds divided by 100) and the frame time (refresh rate interval) is 10 milliseconds. (1000 divided by 100).

At a strobe duty of 006, VT tweak 1500 and 100hz refresh rate, the persistence is 0.167 x 6 = 0.994ms=1.0 milliseconds. that's easy math and easy to follow, I hope.

Since the REFRESH INTERVAL (frame time) is 10ms, and the persistence (strobe duty 006) is 1 millisecond,
This means that the backlight is ON for 1 ms and off for 9 milliseconds. 9+1=10. Dim screen but strong amount of motion blur reduction.

Now strobe duty 012 is 0.167ms x 12 = 2.0 milliseconds.

the backlight is on for 2 milliseconds and off for 8 milliseconds.
Since it's on longer, it's brighter, but more of the frame is visible, so you have more motion blur (since more of the pixel transition between frames is visible).

So you have to balance the strobe duty with how much brightness you want.

This is assuming you are using a VT tweak. Remember that I told you that the VT tweak *enforces* 60hz pulse widths. Pulse width is 60hz persistence values divided by 100. 60hz is 16.7 millisecond persistence. divide by 100 = 0.167ms. Why does this happen when the VT tweak is run out of specification? I don't know. Probably so the monitor can strobe in sync with a VT it does not recognize as belonging to a preset refresh rate.

This may also explain why the XL2730Z freesync monitor doesn't work with VT tweaks and cant strobe lower than 120hz.

Anyway the math I gave you assumes a VT Tweak is in use.

if you are *NOT* using a VT tweak, then the persistence (per point of strobe duty) is based on the current refresh rate instead of the 60hz (0.167ms) values.

so for example 100hz without a VT tweak would be 1000 divided by 100 (10ms) divided by 100 AGAIN (0.1 milliseconds).
So that would mean strobe duty 010 would be 1 ms of persistence instead of strobe duty 006.

120hz (without a VT tweak) would be 8.3 milliseconds (1000 divided by 120), divided by 100 AGAIN = 0.083 ms per point of duty, so strobe duty 012= 1 ms.
(I think you can understand now why the screen gets brighter when a VT tweak is in use. just look at the math).

The chart on display-corner I linked has the persistence values also.

One more thing:
As I already said (did you read my main post on general?), using a VT tweak LIMITS the maximum STROBE PHASE setting.
The STROBE DUTY is also limited by the maximum strobe phase. there is a relationship between persistence and phase.
If you go to the limit of the strobe phase, the strobe duty is limited by how many points of phase are left before the backlight turns off.
So if you are at 120hz , VT tweak active, and strobe phase is =049, this is equal to strobe duty 001 --you cant go any higher. =0.167ms persistence. Strobe phase 050 will shut off the backlight.

You will need to lower strobe phase to increase brightness.

(without a VT tweak, this doesn't apply, because even though the maximum strobe phase is 100, this is not equal to duty 001 because there is a frame buffer involved. Yes, using a VT tweak technically reduces the amount of input lag slightly, by "removing" the frame buffer from the maximum strobe phase).

[RobOhm]

I've read everything you've linked so far but I honestly don't understand it, it's like i'm reading greek you know?

I asked earlier for settings and that's really what I just need.

The cold hard settings, put this to that, that to that and boom bada bing, you're done.
Figuring this out on my own is interesting and all but it will literally

a) take me a year
b) make me return the monitor
c) throw it out the window

Help me out please :')

[Falkentyne]

Did the pixel clock, remembered the VT, checked the monitor and it said @60hz.

Problem is the screen did not get any brighter, at all.

https://gyazo.com/edf98f0b61736d055108ea716a99d340, anything wrong?


edit 1: "Fixed the VT trick by putting 1501 instead, it increased brightness, slightly... Still too dark and dim for my taste though
edit 2: When i switch from the custom res to the native res the color scheme sometimes changes to Thousands instead of Millions. Any idea why this is? Really annoying to change it manually everytime, this can't be intended?

Please use ToastyX CRU for custom resolutions.
I can't help with the Nvidia control panel.
The Nvidia control panel creates GPU scaled resolutions. Even if you are using a VT tweak, it can change the timings of the base resolution, but its not an EDID override. While the VT tweak can work, I can't help with problems if you are using the Nvidia control panel. ToastyX CRU would avoid all of these problems you are having.

it starts GPU scaling if the timings are not correct. And if it GPU scales, it scales from the "base" normal VT, not from your custom VT. GPU scaling does not work with custom resolutions (neither does AMD VSR or Nvidia DSR).

And to answer your last edit.....there's not much more I can do.
You need to take your time and not try to learn everything in 30 seconds.
it takes time you know?

If you go to a computer class and try to learn C# or whatever they do these days, you can't expect the teacher to 'keep it simple" and you can't have it "quick and easy". These things take time and effort.

As I said, use ToastyX CRU to avoid issues with the Nvidia control panel GPU scaling things and removing the VT tweaks, etc.

[RobOhm]

Will Toasty deal with these things? Not sure if you adressed them yet, from earlier:

"this is an important question; I see this type of shimmer off my desktop background (standard windows thing), the white light f.ex that originates from different places is breaking off into "half circles", clearly going from lighter to darker shades. It's really visible and I did not expect this from this kind of monitor. Normal or is my shit fucked up? If you need a screenshot to understand i'll get you one."

"is it normal to see screentearing in this test? http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-text ( i get TONS of browser stutter warnings eventho I got nothing else running ) and the fps dips from 144 to 141-142-143 every so often, and micro-stutter is a long time "friend" of mine i'd reaaally like to get totally rid off somehow."

And when I get it, do I just make the same res with that program. That's it?

[Falkentyne]

Stuttering from the video card (which testUFO can show, or CPU issues) is caused by vsync issues and CPU usage in windows. That has nothing to do with toastyX patcher. Close all programs except the browser when running TestUFO.

using an incorrect VT can cause stuttering but that is the monitor frameskipping; windows can't detect frameskips from the monitor. (a good is example is trying to use a VT tweak at 85hz refresh rate. On XL2720Z (I do NOT know about the 24" monitors as I don't have one to test), VT 1497, 1498, 1499, 1500 and 1502 all frameskip badly or erratically at 85hz, VT 1501 is perfect). TestUFO won't detect anything as that's caused by the monitor scaler not liking the VT.

Also that site works best with Chrome or some versions of firefox.

[RobOhm]

Thing is im going off an ufo test in 144hz 1920x1080 native with Chrome, no other tabs open, no other programs.
And there is quite abit of ghosting, or some image shenanigans going on, it's really not close to 100% smooth textures when moving ingame in CS:GO, and playing at 1440x1080 it should be crystal right?

edit: I don't use vsync for anything btw, and my CPU usage is fine, in the 5-10%.