Hey fellas,
I'm going to be receiving an xl2411z next week and I'm trying to learn as much as I can in advance so that when I receive the monitor, I can get the settings right asap. Mostly for playing CS GO. So far, this is what I plan on doing. Please let me know if something's wrong or if there's something I should change! Thank you
I could maintain 125fps constant. I've seen it mentioned that TIC settings must be set accurately in order for the changes to take effect but I'm not really sure what that means. Afaik competitive matchmaking servers are 64 tick rate, is that what you guys are talking about?
1. download nvidia pixel clock patcher
2. vt tweak 125hz and 1498 VT. (do i have to adjust the horizontal total or front porch or sync width, or any other settings in toastyx? ty)
3. blur reduction ON, download strobe utility and set crosstalk all the way to the left and adjust persistence for brightness/clarity balance
4. Vsync on in game, max fps set to 125?
~question: if im using the strobe utility, do I still need to adjust strobe duty and strobe phase, or does the utility adjust that? what exactly does the utility adjust for me? If so, i'll want to use the highest strobe phase, around 047, but i still cant understand how to choose what to set the strobe duty at. is 047 the highest number for strobe phase + strobe duty? so that if i wanted a strobe duty of 4 id need a strobe phase of 043?
5. do the ama low trick to reduce ghosting
6. set contrast to 40 to further reduce ghosting
and then, how do i calibrate the colors for the monitor? do I use nvidia control panel for color calibration? I'm assuming ICC profiles arent calibrated for all of the other settings that I'm going to be changing here.
Last question, what are some commonly used settings for black equalizer and sharpness? Or do I determine those during calibration.
Thank you very much, Tim
A couple questions, still learning. Going to get xl2411z
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Re: A couple questions, still learning. Going to get xl2411z
Hi there,
please take your time and bear with me and I'll try to explain as clearly as I can. Hopefully as long as you don't RUSH through my post, you will understand everything with time.
As far as I know, all of the SERVER CS tic settings should allow you to get up to 144 hz, 144 fps so this isn't a problem on any normal server.
But...Some people have their *CLIENTS* running with a lower tic level, however, which would limit the framerate of the game to be below the real video card framerate. Usually these are people who came from old 60hz monitors and who may have messed with the tic settings to try to get better performance or something. Having your client limited to 90 FPS by tic settings, even though the FPS=Max is set to 144, is a really painful experience! Again I don't play CS so don't ask me for help on that
The tic setting in CS is sorta similar to the "Netspeed=" setting in Unreal Tournament 2004, for those that remember that.
For 125hz refresh rate, yes you want VT 1498. I found VT 1500 and VT 1502 to work, however sometimes when CHANGING profile presets (at least on the XL2720Z's s-switch and XL2420Z's s-switch), the monitor wouldn't sync correctly and the backlight would start pulsating and there would be massive frameskipping sometimes, at certain VT's. The biggest culprit I've seen for this is *sometimes* at VT 1502 @ 120hz refresh rate (VT 1500 is flawless and I've never seen it happen at VT 1500 @ 120hz), and ANY VT besides VT 1501, at *85 hz*.
This same problems happens at 100hz refresh rate with VT 1350, **EVERY TIME**, but NOT with VT 1354! That's an example how one VT could cause frameskipping and one right next to it can be perfect. There's absolutely NO visual or performance difference from VT 1354 vs VT 1350 (4 points of VT increase), or VT 1498 vs VT 1502 (4 points). (NOTE: BEFORE you get CONFUSED, there is a SUBSTANTIAL crosstalk improvement from VT 1354 to VT 1500. I'm only using this example to explain how certain VT's can cause frameskipping. I'm NOT saying that VT 1354 is the same as the VT 1497-VT 1502 range! So please don't get confused).
From VT 1497-VT 1502, the scaler thinks it's running at 1280x1440 (long story, check my huge VT thread for more information on this) and at VT 1340-VT 1360, the scaler thinks it's running at 1600x1280. The key is the vertical scaler resolution, as that is how the strobe crosstalk is calculated/reduced, not the horizontal.
For 125hz, no, you just use the same settings as before.
front porch 48,3
sync width 32,5
HT: 2080
VT: 1498.
Pretty much the same as 120hz, except at 120hz, I found VT 1500 to be MORE consistent than VT 1502 (VT 1502 sometimes causes issues when chaning resolutions or profiles, yet at 100hz, VT 1502 is FLAWLESS).
About lowering the HT to 2001:
That's for a displayport connection for 120hz refresh rate with a VT tweak. That's because on DP 1.1a monitors (Don't believe Benq--this is NOT a DP 1.2 monitor!), if the pixel clock EXCEEDS 359.99 MHz (or 360.00 MHz), the color depth REVERTS to 6 bit color per channel (meaning 64 shades of RGB = 262,144 total colors) on the video card, instead of 8 bit color ( 256 shades of RGB=16.7 million). This can cause a pretty nice loss of color depth over displayport.
Over DVI--you can ignore all of this, as DVI never 'reverts' to 6 bit color; it always runs at the max limit.
So you have an XL2411Z so you can ignore all of this.
But just for completeness' sake, over Displayport, in order to keep the pixel clock UNDER 360 MHz when using a VT tweak at 120hz, you would need Horizontal total=2001, and vertical total=1499 at 120hz. Just barely squeezing it in, as the HT can not go under 2001 at all.
Again you can ignore/disregard this unless you use a DISPLAYPORT connection with a VT tweak at 120hz.
At 100hz, the pixel clock is always low enough over displayport.
At 125hz on my XL2720Z, yes, I would be forced to use 6 bit color at all times if I use displayport, as the pixel clock is 389 MHz and I can't lower it down to <360. So I have to suffer. I would have to use DVI to avoid that.
Ok back to the main topic now.
Yes you want vsync on, 125hz, 125 FPS.
Now something needs to be said about strobe phase and the windows blur busters utility.
The windows utility has a capped slider which prevents the strobe phase from going too high. This is to prevent people from getting black screens when using VT tweaks.
However Chief Blur buster was wrong with the slider description. The left side says "earlier strobe phase" and the right one says 'later strobe phase".
However this is wrong.
Masterotaku found out that a HIGHER STROBE PHASE has 1 frame LOWER input lag than a LOW strobe phase, which means that a lower strobe phase strobes *LATER*, not EARLIER--basically a strobe phase of 000 strobes IN THE NEXT FRAME, NOT THE CURRENT FRAME!!
A high strobe phase (phase 100 if NOT using a VT tweak, a few points of phase BEFORE the "backlight shuts off" point, if using a VT tweak) strobes in the CURRENT FRAME and has the same input lag as blur reduction DISABLELD.
So all those people who claimed that blur reduction added input lag were WRONG. it ONLY adds input lag (1 frame, equal to 1000 divided by refresh rate in milliseconds) if the strobe phase is 000! But crosstalk is lowest if strobe phase is 000, so you have to decide.
For 120hz refresh rate, with VT 1500 tweak, I use a strobe phase=044, as this gives me a strobe duty max of 006.
For 125hz refresh rate with VT 1498 (loving that 6 bit color over displayport though!!! ), you should use a strobe phase of 041, as this also is a max strobe duty of 006.
I posted about the max strobe phases when VT tweaks are in use, on my thread.
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic ... &start=220
Masterotaku mentioned how the max strobe duty is limited by strobe phase when VT Tweaks are in use.
I don't use the windows utility as it caps the maximum strobe phase to something like 046 or something, and I need a higher strobe phase for stuff like 100hz VT tweak (strobe phase 054) or 85hz VT tweak 1501 (Strobe phase 063) and so on. I want 1 frame LOWER Input lag in my FPS games (equal to exactly the same as blur reduction OFF) so I increase the strobe phase. So I keep the Service Menu unlocked at all times.
You can see how the frames 'ahead' and 'behind' work by looking at the UFO's on this screen, above and below the "CROSSTALK" bar while you CHANGE THE STROBE PHASE with the SERVICE MENU open. 1 frame LOWER Input lag (high strobe phase= CURRENT FRAME)= UFO's are to the RIGHT 1 frame. 1 frame HIGHER input lag (low strobe phase)= UFO's are to the LEFT one frame. IF you're playing CS, you don't want higher input lag!
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&phot ... &height=-1
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everything else you said is correct.
Contrast 40 has less purple overdrive overshoot ghosting than contrast 50.
Enabling blur reduction and then overwriting/setting AMA to high AFTER enabling blur reduction ALSO reduces the overshoot ghosting by a small amount (any change to ANY Strobe setting, OSD brightness (contrast and gamma are ok to change) or refresh rate will revert your AMA change). This AMA toggle has a MUCH bigger effect on the XL2720Z than on your XL2411Z.
please take your time and bear with me and I'll try to explain as clearly as I can. Hopefully as long as you don't RUSH through my post, you will understand everything with time.
As far as I know, all of the SERVER CS tic settings should allow you to get up to 144 hz, 144 fps so this isn't a problem on any normal server.
But...Some people have their *CLIENTS* running with a lower tic level, however, which would limit the framerate of the game to be below the real video card framerate. Usually these are people who came from old 60hz monitors and who may have messed with the tic settings to try to get better performance or something. Having your client limited to 90 FPS by tic settings, even though the FPS=Max is set to 144, is a really painful experience! Again I don't play CS so don't ask me for help on that
The tic setting in CS is sorta similar to the "Netspeed=" setting in Unreal Tournament 2004, for those that remember that.
For 125hz refresh rate, yes you want VT 1498. I found VT 1500 and VT 1502 to work, however sometimes when CHANGING profile presets (at least on the XL2720Z's s-switch and XL2420Z's s-switch), the monitor wouldn't sync correctly and the backlight would start pulsating and there would be massive frameskipping sometimes, at certain VT's. The biggest culprit I've seen for this is *sometimes* at VT 1502 @ 120hz refresh rate (VT 1500 is flawless and I've never seen it happen at VT 1500 @ 120hz), and ANY VT besides VT 1501, at *85 hz*.
This same problems happens at 100hz refresh rate with VT 1350, **EVERY TIME**, but NOT with VT 1354! That's an example how one VT could cause frameskipping and one right next to it can be perfect. There's absolutely NO visual or performance difference from VT 1354 vs VT 1350 (4 points of VT increase), or VT 1498 vs VT 1502 (4 points). (NOTE: BEFORE you get CONFUSED, there is a SUBSTANTIAL crosstalk improvement from VT 1354 to VT 1500. I'm only using this example to explain how certain VT's can cause frameskipping. I'm NOT saying that VT 1354 is the same as the VT 1497-VT 1502 range! So please don't get confused).
From VT 1497-VT 1502, the scaler thinks it's running at 1280x1440 (long story, check my huge VT thread for more information on this) and at VT 1340-VT 1360, the scaler thinks it's running at 1600x1280. The key is the vertical scaler resolution, as that is how the strobe crosstalk is calculated/reduced, not the horizontal.
For 125hz, no, you just use the same settings as before.
front porch 48,3
sync width 32,5
HT: 2080
VT: 1498.
Pretty much the same as 120hz, except at 120hz, I found VT 1500 to be MORE consistent than VT 1502 (VT 1502 sometimes causes issues when chaning resolutions or profiles, yet at 100hz, VT 1502 is FLAWLESS).
About lowering the HT to 2001:
That's for a displayport connection for 120hz refresh rate with a VT tweak. That's because on DP 1.1a monitors (Don't believe Benq--this is NOT a DP 1.2 monitor!), if the pixel clock EXCEEDS 359.99 MHz (or 360.00 MHz), the color depth REVERTS to 6 bit color per channel (meaning 64 shades of RGB = 262,144 total colors) on the video card, instead of 8 bit color ( 256 shades of RGB=16.7 million). This can cause a pretty nice loss of color depth over displayport.
Over DVI--you can ignore all of this, as DVI never 'reverts' to 6 bit color; it always runs at the max limit.
So you have an XL2411Z so you can ignore all of this.
But just for completeness' sake, over Displayport, in order to keep the pixel clock UNDER 360 MHz when using a VT tweak at 120hz, you would need Horizontal total=2001, and vertical total=1499 at 120hz. Just barely squeezing it in, as the HT can not go under 2001 at all.
Again you can ignore/disregard this unless you use a DISPLAYPORT connection with a VT tweak at 120hz.
At 100hz, the pixel clock is always low enough over displayport.
At 125hz on my XL2720Z, yes, I would be forced to use 6 bit color at all times if I use displayport, as the pixel clock is 389 MHz and I can't lower it down to <360. So I have to suffer. I would have to use DVI to avoid that.
Ok back to the main topic now.
Yes you want vsync on, 125hz, 125 FPS.
Now something needs to be said about strobe phase and the windows blur busters utility.
The windows utility has a capped slider which prevents the strobe phase from going too high. This is to prevent people from getting black screens when using VT tweaks.
However Chief Blur buster was wrong with the slider description. The left side says "earlier strobe phase" and the right one says 'later strobe phase".
However this is wrong.
Masterotaku found out that a HIGHER STROBE PHASE has 1 frame LOWER input lag than a LOW strobe phase, which means that a lower strobe phase strobes *LATER*, not EARLIER--basically a strobe phase of 000 strobes IN THE NEXT FRAME, NOT THE CURRENT FRAME!!
A high strobe phase (phase 100 if NOT using a VT tweak, a few points of phase BEFORE the "backlight shuts off" point, if using a VT tweak) strobes in the CURRENT FRAME and has the same input lag as blur reduction DISABLELD.
So all those people who claimed that blur reduction added input lag were WRONG. it ONLY adds input lag (1 frame, equal to 1000 divided by refresh rate in milliseconds) if the strobe phase is 000! But crosstalk is lowest if strobe phase is 000, so you have to decide.
For 120hz refresh rate, with VT 1500 tweak, I use a strobe phase=044, as this gives me a strobe duty max of 006.
For 125hz refresh rate with VT 1498 (loving that 6 bit color over displayport though!!! ), you should use a strobe phase of 041, as this also is a max strobe duty of 006.
I posted about the max strobe phases when VT tweaks are in use, on my thread.
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic ... &start=220
Masterotaku mentioned how the max strobe duty is limited by strobe phase when VT Tweaks are in use.
---------000 strobe phase is usually a safe number with only a bit of crosstalk at the top of the screen, but the numbers of my list have less input lag. One frame ahead, I think. In case there's a bit of crosstalk with my settings, it will be at the bottom of the screen instead of the top.
If you pass some point, you'll notice that brightness lowers, meaning that the strobe length is changing alonside the strobe phase (as explained before). Be careful when you change your refresh rate upwards, because if you go from 90Hz with s.p. 058 to 120Hz, you'll get a black screen, unless you disable blur reduction. At least it can be toggled with one button even if you see nothing.
I don't use the windows utility as it caps the maximum strobe phase to something like 046 or something, and I need a higher strobe phase for stuff like 100hz VT tweak (strobe phase 054) or 85hz VT tweak 1501 (Strobe phase 063) and so on. I want 1 frame LOWER Input lag in my FPS games (equal to exactly the same as blur reduction OFF) so I increase the strobe phase. So I keep the Service Menu unlocked at all times.
Factory menu:
1) power off via power button.
2) XL2411Z only: hold button #3 and button #5 with the power off for 5 seconds, then press power while still holding them down.
2a) if nothing happens at all when the power button is pressed (this is most common after a firmware update or an AC hard power off), press power to give the monitor current, and then instantly hold button #3 and #5 until the "Optical assault (Eye care)" and input prompt logos are bypassed.
2b) XL2420Z, XL2430T, XL2720Z and XL2730Z: buttons 3 and 4 with power off for 5+ seconds unlock the factory menu.
3) button 5 enters factory menu.
4) The service menu with the single strobe (For single strobing refresh rates lower than 100hz), strobe duty, strobe phase and other settings are holding button #4 for 5 seconds after powering on, or while powered off, on XL2420Z, XL2430T, XL2720Z and XL2730Z.
5) For the XL2411Z (also the older XL2411T), it's button #2 (down button) for 5 seconds with power off, instead of button #4, then press power on+button #2
You can see how the frames 'ahead' and 'behind' work by looking at the UFO's on this screen, above and below the "CROSSTALK" bar while you CHANGE THE STROBE PHASE with the SERVICE MENU open. 1 frame LOWER Input lag (high strobe phase= CURRENT FRAME)= UFO's are to the RIGHT 1 frame. 1 frame HIGHER input lag (low strobe phase)= UFO's are to the LEFT one frame. IF you're playing CS, you don't want higher input lag!
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&phot ... &height=-1
-----
everything else you said is correct.
Contrast 40 has less purple overdrive overshoot ghosting than contrast 50.
Enabling blur reduction and then overwriting/setting AMA to high AFTER enabling blur reduction ALSO reduces the overshoot ghosting by a small amount (any change to ANY Strobe setting, OSD brightness (contrast and gamma are ok to change) or refresh rate will revert your AMA change). This AMA toggle has a MUCH bigger effect on the XL2720Z than on your XL2411Z.
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- Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 02:15
Re: A couple questions, still learning. Going to get xl2411z
Thank you very much Falkentyne, your descriptions are always extremely clear and I've learned almost everything about this from you. Thank you.
I'm going to go ahead and adjust the strobe myself from the service menu rather than using the windows utility, then.
One last question, is there any downside to Vsync on? I've read about it introducing input lag.
If I could maintain 250+fps then would it be fine to leave Vsync off?
I know that you advocate to use Vsync on when using blur reduction so I'm wondering if there's any reason to leave Vsync off for preference or if it is almost always best to leave Vsync on. Thank you again
I'm going to go ahead and adjust the strobe myself from the service menu rather than using the windows utility, then.
One last question, is there any downside to Vsync on? I've read about it introducing input lag.
If I could maintain 250+fps then would it be fine to leave Vsync off?
I know that you advocate to use Vsync on when using blur reduction so I'm wondering if there's any reason to leave Vsync off for preference or if it is almost always best to leave Vsync on. Thank you again
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- Posts: 2795
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: A couple questions, still learning. Going to get xl2411z
Vsync on *always* adds input lag because the video card has to wait for the entire frame to be completed before sending the data.
There's ALWAYS exactly 1000 divided by refresh rate in milliseconds amount of input lag when vsync is enabled.
E.g. 120hz is 1000 divided by 120 = 8.3 milliseconds
100hz is 1000 divided by 100 = 10 milliseconds.
if you have vsync DISABLED then there is no added input lag from the VIDEO CARD since it sends data instantly. You will STILL have 1 frame HIGHER input lag if strobe phase=000, and "True" input lag if phase is set to "High" values.
If you use a HIGH strobe duty (e.g. with a VT 1500 tweak at 120hz, using strobe phase =044 and strobe duty 006 (you can't go higher than 006 because there is a link between phase and duty; max allowed duty is equal to remaining phase points available before backlight shuts off, which happens at phase 050 at 120hz WITH VT Tweak (you can test that easily), then if you have a high strobe duty, input lag will be IDENTICAL between blur reduction ON and OFF. (thus no one in CS:Go complaining that blur reduction adds input lag, as any input lag would be only from vsync itself).
(for 125hz, use 041 strobe phase and 006 strobe duty with VT tweak).
if you use a LOW strobe phase (e.g. 000) to keep crosstalk at lowest amounts at the bottom of the screen, you will have one frame HIGHER INPUT LAG than you would have with blur reduction disabled. Example: at 120hz refresh rate, you would have 8.3 milliseconds HIGHER input lag with blur reduction on, than off.
So if you were using Vsync AND blur reduction at 120hz, with a strobe phase of 000, you would have 8.3ms input lag for vsync PLUS 8.3 MORE input lag for a low strobe phase = 16.7ms total input lag.
Even WITHOUT VT tweaks (e.g. stock monitor/stock refresh rate settings), this formula still applies, except now it's strobe phase 100 vs strobe phase 000. But if you are not using VT tweaks, you can still use strobe duty 0-30 at strobe phase 100
There's ALWAYS exactly 1000 divided by refresh rate in milliseconds amount of input lag when vsync is enabled.
E.g. 120hz is 1000 divided by 120 = 8.3 milliseconds
100hz is 1000 divided by 100 = 10 milliseconds.
if you have vsync DISABLED then there is no added input lag from the VIDEO CARD since it sends data instantly. You will STILL have 1 frame HIGHER input lag if strobe phase=000, and "True" input lag if phase is set to "High" values.
If you use a HIGH strobe duty (e.g. with a VT 1500 tweak at 120hz, using strobe phase =044 and strobe duty 006 (you can't go higher than 006 because there is a link between phase and duty; max allowed duty is equal to remaining phase points available before backlight shuts off, which happens at phase 050 at 120hz WITH VT Tweak (you can test that easily), then if you have a high strobe duty, input lag will be IDENTICAL between blur reduction ON and OFF. (thus no one in CS:Go complaining that blur reduction adds input lag, as any input lag would be only from vsync itself).
(for 125hz, use 041 strobe phase and 006 strobe duty with VT tweak).
if you use a LOW strobe phase (e.g. 000) to keep crosstalk at lowest amounts at the bottom of the screen, you will have one frame HIGHER INPUT LAG than you would have with blur reduction disabled. Example: at 120hz refresh rate, you would have 8.3 milliseconds HIGHER input lag with blur reduction on, than off.
So if you were using Vsync AND blur reduction at 120hz, with a strobe phase of 000, you would have 8.3ms input lag for vsync PLUS 8.3 MORE input lag for a low strobe phase = 16.7ms total input lag.
Even WITHOUT VT tweaks (e.g. stock monitor/stock refresh rate settings), this formula still applies, except now it's strobe phase 100 vs strobe phase 000. But if you are not using VT tweaks, you can still use strobe duty 0-30 at strobe phase 100