Ive just bougth the BenQ 2411z and it seems to have some ghosting when im turning ingame even on 144hz.
Blur reduction makes no difference at all.
So id like to test the tool provided at this page but i wouldnt do it if i would lose the warranty.
Firmware is something like V400....
And ive tested a lot of different monitor settings but somehow it all looks the same. Ofc im using a DVI cable.
Can some1 help me with this?
edit: ive just read that you should use 120hz. It was on this page but i cant find it anymore, is that true and why?
btw, if i do the ufo test on 120 and 144 hz everything looks fine (with blur reduction on). without im getting a bit blur.
But ingame its easier to notice, when i turn around fast everything get blurred so i cant rly focus on something while doing this.
Is it normal?
Will i lose the warranty if i use the blur reduction tool?
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lexlazootin
- Posts: 1251
- Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 02:57
Re: Will i lose the warranty if i use the blur reduction too
I think the problem you're having is having the overdrive too high. In the OSD of the monitor turn down the AMA setting.
Also the blurbuster tool is benq certified.
Also the blurbuster tool is benq certified.
Re: Will i lose the warranty if i use the blur reduction too
Im using the standard profile with customized settings because the brightness etc was way too high and ive got headache from itlexlazootin wrote:I think the problem you're having is having the overdrive too high. In the OSD of the monitor turn down the AMA setting.
So does that mean im safe to use that tool and i wont lose the warranty?lexlazootin wrote:Also the blurbuster tool is benq certified.
sry english isnt my main language i just want to get sure.
Ok ive found this one, i think that makes it clear:
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1165
But i´d like to know one more thing.
Isnt that programm just doing some kind of overclick to my monitor?
So it should wear faster - break earlier?
If so, what should i leave untouched?
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Falkentyne
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: Will i lose the warranty if i use the blur reduction too
Hi,
Just to make some things clear,
1) the WINDOWS utility is **NOT** an overclocking tool !!
Monsters are overclocked by increasing the refresh rate higher than max allowed.
Benq does NOT support overclocking. The firmware does not allow it.
The Benq monitor is hardware locked to 1 hz above max refresh rate (145 hz).
2) The WINDOWS utility is simply a GUI version of the Benq Service Menu.
It allows you to adjust most of the strobe settings in the service menu, but the Windows utility is directly designed for monitors with "Vertical Total" tweaks active to reduce the strobe crosstalk (e.g. VT 1500 tweak). So the windows utility limits some of the options in the Service Menu to prevent exceeding certain values for 120hz refresh rate (namely: Strobe Phase is limited to 047 in the windows utility. The Service Menu allows you to adjust Strobe Phase to 100.
3) Benq designed these monitors for lowest input lag. A HIGH strobe phase has lower input lag (1 frame exactly) than a LOW (Strobe phase=000) strobe phase. I'm sorry if you can't understand this (im writing this in as simple English as possible), but when using a Vertical Total tweak, if the Strobe phase is too high, the backlight will turn off if blur reduction is enabled. When you are NOT using a Vertical Total tweak, Strobe Phase can go up to 100. Benq originally designed these monitors to run at strobe phase 100 for blur reduction. Firmware V001 defaulted to Strobe phase 100 to match Lightboost type settings (Top of the screen with 0 crosstalk and lowest input lag). Firmware V002 allowed changes to Strobe phase and Strobe duty, because people complained that crosstalk was too bad at the bottom of the screen in V001.
People were mad at benq for this, however this was not even Benq's fault! The problem was normal LCD panel transition times that ALL LCD panels have. The reason why people didn't have bad cross-talk in Lightboost mode was because Lightboost used a form of Internal Accelerated Scanout to the monitor scaler to reduce it. But this type of accelerated scanout would come at a cost of some image quality, because some faint horizontal "scanlines" would appear in Lightboost mode, due to the electronics being pushed beyond normal design (no risk, however).
Benq Blur reduction does not have a built in accelerated scanout feature. However, we could trick the monitor into using the lightboost method of accelerated scanout by making a custom resolution and increasing the "vertical total". Lightboost did this internally by sending this directly to the monitor scalar.
Benq, however, told me that the method of using the Vertical Total 1500 to accelerate the scanout (to make the crosstalk equal to Lightboost level) was actually a firmware bug, that was not originally intended. Lightboost sent the equivalent of a higher vertical total to the scaler directly (e.g. VT 1500) without needing a custom resolution with the high VT; just the Lightboost 3D mode had to be enabled (although 100hz lightboost was signaled by VT 1138, 110hz by VT 1143 and 120hz by VT 1149).
The bug was that Benq actually used and modified some of the Lightboost electronics and adapted them for blur reduction. But since Lightboost sent a VT 1500 directly to the scalar itself, the Benq firmware also responded to this for Benq Blur reduction also. So in V1 firmware (original firmware), VT 1500 tweak at 100hz and 120hz was identical in crosstalk to Lightboost mode. However Chief only tested VT 1350 at 120hz originally. it was Masterotaku who found out that the VT could go into the VT 1497-VT 1502 (lightboost range) area.
Ok well back to your topic.
The issue for most people was that WITHOUT the VT tweaks originally (again the VT tweak was actually a bug in the firmware that Benq decided to just let us use, but this "bug" was fixed in the Benq XL2730Z), the crosstalk was too high with blur reduction 100hz/120hz, etc. So Benq made V2 firmware so we could adjust the Crosstalk as well as the Blur reduction persistence (Strobe duty) in the Service menu.
Chief then wrote the windows utility as a "Front End" (shortcut) to using the Service menu. However Chief's utility was based mainly on 120hz refresh rate *WITH* a vertical total tweak, so the maximum Strobe Phase is limited to 047. That's because Strobe phase 050-100 will turn the backlight off at 120hz refresh rate, with a VT tweak active (as I explained above), but WITHOUT a VT tweak, you can use strobe phase 100.
A high strobe phase (with a VT tweak, e.g. 044 (120hz) or 054 (100hz) with VT 1500 tweak) will have 1 frame LOWER input lag than strobe phase 000. You can test this for yourself. It's not hard to do.
Just open the Service menu and change "STROBE PHASE" from 000 to 100, with this test open and watch the 1) crosstalk move, and 2) the UFO/RED VERTICAL BAR move AHEAD or BEHIND 1 frame (ahead to the right or behind to the left). To the right is 1 frame LOWER input lag. To the left is 1 frame HIGHER input lag.
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&phot ... &height=-1
3) Chief made a mistake on the windows utility.
The LEFT side says "earlier strobe phase" and the right side says "later strobe phase"
Since phase means TIME. an EARLIER strobe phase means the strobe occurs EARLIER (sooner) so LOWER input lag. and LATER strobe phase means "HIGHER" INPUT lag. There is a mistake here.
Strobe phase 000 actually strobes in the NEXT FRAME, not the CURRENT frame, so it is 1 frame BEHIND (LATER), while Strobe phase (100) or maximum (before backlight shut off with VT tweak) strobes in the CURRENT FRAME (no input lag added).
So the windows utility SHOULD say <--- LATER STROBE PHASE (000), EARLIER STROBE PHASE (047) ----->
I told Chief about this in a PM but he hasn't gotten back to me in months.
You can see my posts about strobe phase here.
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590
I'm sorry if you have trouble understanding all of this due to English problems. Maybe if it's difficult for you, you can ask your friend to translate this to your native language. Everything is in this thread about STROBE PHASE and VT tweaks and what PHASE will shut backlight off.
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590
Please read it.
Just to make some things clear,
1) the WINDOWS utility is **NOT** an overclocking tool !!
Monsters are overclocked by increasing the refresh rate higher than max allowed.
Benq does NOT support overclocking. The firmware does not allow it.
The Benq monitor is hardware locked to 1 hz above max refresh rate (145 hz).
2) The WINDOWS utility is simply a GUI version of the Benq Service Menu.
It allows you to adjust most of the strobe settings in the service menu, but the Windows utility is directly designed for monitors with "Vertical Total" tweaks active to reduce the strobe crosstalk (e.g. VT 1500 tweak). So the windows utility limits some of the options in the Service Menu to prevent exceeding certain values for 120hz refresh rate (namely: Strobe Phase is limited to 047 in the windows utility. The Service Menu allows you to adjust Strobe Phase to 100.
3) Benq designed these monitors for lowest input lag. A HIGH strobe phase has lower input lag (1 frame exactly) than a LOW (Strobe phase=000) strobe phase. I'm sorry if you can't understand this (im writing this in as simple English as possible), but when using a Vertical Total tweak, if the Strobe phase is too high, the backlight will turn off if blur reduction is enabled. When you are NOT using a Vertical Total tweak, Strobe Phase can go up to 100. Benq originally designed these monitors to run at strobe phase 100 for blur reduction. Firmware V001 defaulted to Strobe phase 100 to match Lightboost type settings (Top of the screen with 0 crosstalk and lowest input lag). Firmware V002 allowed changes to Strobe phase and Strobe duty, because people complained that crosstalk was too bad at the bottom of the screen in V001.
People were mad at benq for this, however this was not even Benq's fault! The problem was normal LCD panel transition times that ALL LCD panels have. The reason why people didn't have bad cross-talk in Lightboost mode was because Lightboost used a form of Internal Accelerated Scanout to the monitor scaler to reduce it. But this type of accelerated scanout would come at a cost of some image quality, because some faint horizontal "scanlines" would appear in Lightboost mode, due to the electronics being pushed beyond normal design (no risk, however).
Benq Blur reduction does not have a built in accelerated scanout feature. However, we could trick the monitor into using the lightboost method of accelerated scanout by making a custom resolution and increasing the "vertical total". Lightboost did this internally by sending this directly to the monitor scalar.
Benq, however, told me that the method of using the Vertical Total 1500 to accelerate the scanout (to make the crosstalk equal to Lightboost level) was actually a firmware bug, that was not originally intended. Lightboost sent the equivalent of a higher vertical total to the scaler directly (e.g. VT 1500) without needing a custom resolution with the high VT; just the Lightboost 3D mode had to be enabled (although 100hz lightboost was signaled by VT 1138, 110hz by VT 1143 and 120hz by VT 1149).
The bug was that Benq actually used and modified some of the Lightboost electronics and adapted them for blur reduction. But since Lightboost sent a VT 1500 directly to the scalar itself, the Benq firmware also responded to this for Benq Blur reduction also. So in V1 firmware (original firmware), VT 1500 tweak at 100hz and 120hz was identical in crosstalk to Lightboost mode. However Chief only tested VT 1350 at 120hz originally. it was Masterotaku who found out that the VT could go into the VT 1497-VT 1502 (lightboost range) area.
Ok well back to your topic.
The issue for most people was that WITHOUT the VT tweaks originally (again the VT tweak was actually a bug in the firmware that Benq decided to just let us use, but this "bug" was fixed in the Benq XL2730Z), the crosstalk was too high with blur reduction 100hz/120hz, etc. So Benq made V2 firmware so we could adjust the Crosstalk as well as the Blur reduction persistence (Strobe duty) in the Service menu.
Chief then wrote the windows utility as a "Front End" (shortcut) to using the Service menu. However Chief's utility was based mainly on 120hz refresh rate *WITH* a vertical total tweak, so the maximum Strobe Phase is limited to 047. That's because Strobe phase 050-100 will turn the backlight off at 120hz refresh rate, with a VT tweak active (as I explained above), but WITHOUT a VT tweak, you can use strobe phase 100.
A high strobe phase (with a VT tweak, e.g. 044 (120hz) or 054 (100hz) with VT 1500 tweak) will have 1 frame LOWER input lag than strobe phase 000. You can test this for yourself. It's not hard to do.
Just open the Service menu and change "STROBE PHASE" from 000 to 100, with this test open and watch the 1) crosstalk move, and 2) the UFO/RED VERTICAL BAR move AHEAD or BEHIND 1 frame (ahead to the right or behind to the left). To the right is 1 frame LOWER input lag. To the left is 1 frame HIGHER input lag.
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&phot ... &height=-1
3) Chief made a mistake on the windows utility.
The LEFT side says "earlier strobe phase" and the right side says "later strobe phase"
Since phase means TIME. an EARLIER strobe phase means the strobe occurs EARLIER (sooner) so LOWER input lag. and LATER strobe phase means "HIGHER" INPUT lag. There is a mistake here.
Strobe phase 000 actually strobes in the NEXT FRAME, not the CURRENT frame, so it is 1 frame BEHIND (LATER), while Strobe phase (100) or maximum (before backlight shut off with VT tweak) strobes in the CURRENT FRAME (no input lag added).
So the windows utility SHOULD say <--- LATER STROBE PHASE (000), EARLIER STROBE PHASE (047) ----->
I told Chief about this in a PM but he hasn't gotten back to me in months.
You can see my posts about strobe phase here.
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590
I'm sorry if you have trouble understanding all of this due to English problems. Maybe if it's difficult for you, you can ask your friend to translate this to your native language. Everything is in this thread about STROBE PHASE and VT tweaks and what PHASE will shut backlight off.
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590
Please read it.
Re: Will i lose the warranty if i use the blur reduction too
Ok thats a lot to read.
Ty for the effort uve put in this.
But actually there is another problem im facing.
The things youve explained here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590 are not possible with my display for some reason.
I dont have the MBR setting, i dont have the S switch and i dont get into the factory the way youve wrote it there i just didnt see it.
to get into the factory menu i have to do this:
Power off the monitor.
Then hold down the 2nd button from the left and press the power button.
I have to hold down the 2nd button till i see my desktop. After that i release the 2nd button and do press the 4th button (from the left).
F/W Version : V004-20141205 (didnt update it)
ive got it from there: http://www.amazon.com/BenQ-XL2411Z-Wide ... nq+xl2411z
Ty for the effort uve put in this.
But actually there is another problem im facing.
The things youve explained here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590 are not possible with my display for some reason.
I dont have the MBR setting, i dont have the S switch and i dont get into the factory the way youve wrote it there i just didnt see it.
to get into the factory menu i have to do this:
Power off the monitor.
Then hold down the 2nd button from the left and press the power button.
I have to hold down the 2nd button till i see my desktop. After that i release the 2nd button and do press the 4th button (from the left).
F/W Version : V004-20141205 (didnt update it)
ive got it from there: http://www.amazon.com/BenQ-XL2411Z-Wide ... nq+xl2411z
Last edited by Krux1 on 30 Dec 2015, 18:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Falkentyne
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: Will i lose the warranty if i use the blur reduction too
The factory and service menus for the XL2411Z are different from the touch sensitive monitors with the S-switch.
The codes for the XL2411Z are identical to the XL2411T monitor. it hasn't changed.
I wrote the codes in the post I linked. And they work. You missed it?
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590
Copying it again for you.
The factory menu has the "Burn-In" option (useful for checking for dead pixels; switch to HDMI input to activate burn-in AFTER its enabled), and the "Scaler resolution (internal).
The service menu has the strobe settings.
The codes for the XL2411Z are identical to the XL2411T monitor. it hasn't changed.
I wrote the codes in the post I linked. And they work. You missed it?
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590
Copying it again for you.
Factory menu:
1) power off via power button.
2) XL2411Z only: hold button #3 and button #5 with the power off for 5 seconds, then press power while still holding them down.
2a) if nothing happens at all when the power button is pressed (this is most common after a firmware update or an AC hard power off), press power to give the monitor current, and then instantly hold button #3 and #5 until the "Optical assault (Eye care)" and input prompt logos are bypassed.
The factory menu is different from the service menu.4) The service menu with the single strobe (For single strobing refresh rates lower than 100hz), strobe duty, strobe phase and other settings are holding button #4 for 5 seconds after powering on, or while powered off, on XL2420Z, XL2430T, XL2720Z and XL2730Z.
5) For the XL2411Z (also the older XL2411T), it's button #2 (down button) for 5 seconds with power off, instead of button #4, then press power on+button #2
The factory menu has the "Burn-In" option (useful for checking for dead pixels; switch to HDMI input to activate burn-in AFTER its enabled), and the "Scaler resolution (internal).
The service menu has the strobe settings.
Re: Will i lose the warranty if i use the blur reduction too
No i didnt miss that.
If i go from the left i have to hold the 2nd button, not like you sayd the 3th.
Maybe i misunderstood you there.
Ive never spend any time on monitors so all this is very new to me, im sorry for my newbish questions.
Im using the monitor for counter strike so i want a very low amount of input lag and at the same time a very sharp screen while doing fast turns.
Im using 144 hz (i know about that 120hz and blur reduction should be faster with this kind of vertikal tweak ... )
So should i use a very high amount of strobe phase for that? youve wrote in another post that it can cause a blackscreen.
Anyway, i dont want to take too much of your time.
I guess i have to spend a few more hours into it to understand all that stuff.
If i go from the left i have to hold the 2nd button, not like you sayd the 3th.
Maybe i misunderstood you there.
Ive never spend any time on monitors so all this is very new to me, im sorry for my newbish questions.
Im using the monitor for counter strike so i want a very low amount of input lag and at the same time a very sharp screen while doing fast turns.
Im using 144 hz (i know about that 120hz and blur reduction should be faster with this kind of vertikal tweak ... )
So should i use a very high amount of strobe phase for that? youve wrote in another post that it can cause a blackscreen.
Anyway, i dont want to take too much of your time.
I guess i have to spend a few more hours into it to understand all that stuff.
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Falkentyne
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23
Re: Will i lose the warranty if i use the blur reduction too
I can't explain this any further without repeating everything I already said.
I explained exactly how strobe phase operates and why (WITH a VT tweak) it shuts the backlight off if you go too high on strobe phase. I also gave a formula for calculating what strobe phase # will shut the backlight off at custom refresh rates. It's all in that thread. There's an algebra formula for calculation.
And to answer your question:
For 144hz, you use strobe phase 100 for lowest input lag. It will be same input lag as blur reduction off. (you cant use VT tweak at 130hz-144hz). Please don't use windows utility for 144hz !! Windows utility will stop at Strobe phase 047. (otherwise new people will move the slider too far to S.P.100 and backlight shuts off with VT Tweak, haha).
However Crosstalk (at bottom of screen) will be VERY high at 144hz ! Crosstalk will cover HALF the screen because refresh rate is too fast for pixels to transition color states (TN panel limitation. only OLED will fix this). I don't use blur reduction at 144hz because of too much cross-talk. I only use 125hz (VT 1498 tweak), 120hz (VT 1500 tweak), 100hz (VT 1500 tweak), 85 hz (custom refresh rate, not exist by default, VT 1501 tweak) and 91 hz (VT 1498 tweak).
Sigh I'll type the formula again. Sorry If you can't understand it.
Maximum strobe phase = Refresh rate frame persistence divided by minimum strobe width persistence.
Without VT tweak, minimum strobe width persistence = Refresh rate persistence (e.g. 8.3 milliseconds) divided by 100 = 0.083 @ 120hz.
8.3 divided by 0.083 = 100 (max strobe phase)
With VT tweak at ALL refresh rates, minimum strobe width persistence is forced to .167 (basically 16.7 divided by 100) aka "60hz pulse
widths"
You can figure out by yourself that at 120hz with VT tweak,
Maximum strobe phase is 49.7 (49.7 = 8.3 divided by .167)
100hz with VT tweak:
59.8 = 10.0 divided by .167
The rest is up to you. I'm tired.
I explained exactly how strobe phase operates and why (WITH a VT tweak) it shuts the backlight off if you go too high on strobe phase. I also gave a formula for calculating what strobe phase # will shut the backlight off at custom refresh rates. It's all in that thread. There's an algebra formula for calculation.
And to answer your question:
For 144hz, you use strobe phase 100 for lowest input lag. It will be same input lag as blur reduction off. (you cant use VT tweak at 130hz-144hz). Please don't use windows utility for 144hz !! Windows utility will stop at Strobe phase 047. (otherwise new people will move the slider too far to S.P.100 and backlight shuts off with VT Tweak, haha).
However Crosstalk (at bottom of screen) will be VERY high at 144hz ! Crosstalk will cover HALF the screen because refresh rate is too fast for pixels to transition color states (TN panel limitation. only OLED will fix this). I don't use blur reduction at 144hz because of too much cross-talk. I only use 125hz (VT 1498 tweak), 120hz (VT 1500 tweak), 100hz (VT 1500 tweak), 85 hz (custom refresh rate, not exist by default, VT 1501 tweak) and 91 hz (VT 1498 tweak).
Sigh I'll type the formula again. Sorry If you can't understand it.
Maximum strobe phase = Refresh rate frame persistence divided by minimum strobe width persistence.
Without VT tweak, minimum strobe width persistence = Refresh rate persistence (e.g. 8.3 milliseconds) divided by 100 = 0.083 @ 120hz.
8.3 divided by 0.083 = 100 (max strobe phase)
With VT tweak at ALL refresh rates, minimum strobe width persistence is forced to .167 (basically 16.7 divided by 100) aka "60hz pulse
widths"
You can figure out by yourself that at 120hz with VT tweak,
Maximum strobe phase is 49.7 (49.7 = 8.3 divided by .167)
100hz with VT tweak:
59.8 = 10.0 divided by .167
The rest is up to you. I'm tired.
Re: Will i lose the warranty if i use the blur reduction too
Ok i think i got it. I was a bit tired jesterday.
So once again, thank you for you support.
So once again, thank you for you support.