6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Discuss BENQ Blur Reduction (strobe backlight) and the Blur Busters Strobe Utility. For Z-Series monitors (V2 firmware) on XL2411Z, XL2420Z and XL2720Z.

6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby Synis » 31 Dec 2015, 14:27

Hi guys, im trying to read even more about 2411z, i've just got it today, its a nice monitor but i have 1 issue. Im a serious csgo player, and im trying to figure out how the blur reduction works, but when i activate it my screen go really dimm, like im losing so much brightness, i know its a secundary effect of this option, my question is, is it a big difference between 144hz w/e BR and 144hz w/ BR? i see alot use 120hz w/ BR cause of the ghosting or strobe thing. And i noticed like 5,6 times in a 6h span, some really fast horizontal lines, apeared and dissapeared barrely noticeable, looks like a refresh any hints?

What ive done so far:

1. I've applied the 2420z color profile,
2. I've changed the http://puu.sh/mf3lg/dd60742c25.png custom resolution, but because i have amd, i dont know if the resolution is applied or how do i appy it, i just restarted the pc.
3. The monitor firmware is F/W V004-20141205
4. Do i need to do the VT patch? im running a 7950OC @330fps in csgo.
5. Now i got:
- Brightness: 100
- Contrast: 40
- Blue light: 5
- AMA: Hight
- Blur reduction: OFF
- Sharpness: 5
- Gamma: 5
- Picture Mode: Standard /// 100r 100g 95blue

Im sorry if im repeating question from other posts, i dont have alot of time to stay and read about this week, due to work flow. Thank you.
Synis
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 21:06

Re: 6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby Falkentyne » 31 Dec 2015, 18:46

Hi.
Your instincts were right. You should NOT use blur reduction at 144hz refresh rate because the "Crosstalk" (basically, image date from TWO different frames) winds up covering half the screen, because LCD panels simply can't transition the pixels fast enough to be able to strobe at such a high refresh rate.

Instead, it's better to use Blur Reduction at 120hz refresh rate. This is because the crosstalk is STILL going to be high (the lower the refresh rate, the less the crosstalk, because the frames refresh slower, which gives the pixels themselves more time to "transition"), but you can use something called a "vertical total" tweak, to lower the crosstalk at 120hz. This makes a very big difference in quality compared to NOT having a VT tweak, or using 144hz refresh rate. 144hz refresh rate can *NOT* use VT Tweaks at all (you will get an Out of Range error).

For CS:Go and 120hz refresh rate, so just get you going without having to answer too many random questions, just do this.

1) download ToastyX CRU (please don't use the Nvidia control panel, I do NOT have an Nvidia card. Everyone keeps asking me about Nvidia custom resoutions even on Steam messages, and I DONT OWN AN NVIDIA CARD!!)

2) download the ToastyX pixel clock patcher for DVI and run the Nvidia (or AMD Version for AMD) version of the patcher.

(Advanced users: if you want 1920x1080@85hz to work WITHOUT a VT tweak, or certain low resolutions like 1280x720 at certain refresh rates to work without a "Incorrect Cable error", rename the patcher and put a -DL or -dl at the end of the file name. This will cause ONLY the dual link DVI signal to be patched and NOT the single link DVI signal. certain lower refresh rates use the single link signals. this includes 1920x1080@85hz).

3) Make a custom resolution for 120hz with these timings:
1920x1080 Active.
front porch 48 pixels 3 line
sync width 32 pixels 5 lines
Horizontal Total: 2080
Vertical Total :1500 (the default vertical total for 120hz is 1144).

Save and restart the video card driver or restart the PC.

4) BEFORE SELECTING YOUR NEW 120hz resolution, please open the service menu and change the STROBE PHASE to 000 so the backlight doesn't shut off from a too high strobe phase.

(service menu codes are here at the TOP. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590 some people seem to not understand what buttons are what though).

5) Select your new 120hz refresh rate. To see if it worked, Open the MONITOR OSD under SYSTEM->INFORMATION. if it reports 1920x1080@60hz, IT MEANS IT WORKED--GOOD.

6) Now for CSS/ GO, Strobe phase 000 is NOT ideal. it will have 8.3ms HIGHER input lag than blur reduction off, OR a maximum strobe phase.
The maximum strobe phase for 120hz WITH a VT Tweak is 49. Without a VT tweak its 100 (please don't ask me why. it's in the other thread I linked. It take too long to explain why).

Now set your strobe phase to 049. The screen will get very dim as it increases. 50 shuts the backlight off. Now you need to REDUCE the strobe phase until its bright enough. I recommend for you, Strobe phase 043.

Then set the STROBE DUTY to 007.

043 strobe phase limits the maximum strobe duty to 007 (part of this is because 043+047= 50 and 50 shuts off the backlight).
This will give you the SAME input lag as blur reduction DISABLED, with the normal vsync on or off lag (depending on if u use vsync or not). You will have a little crosstalk at the bottom of the screen. but its ok for CS:Go.
Falkentyne
 
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Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: 6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby Synis » 01 Jan 2016, 13:24

Ok, ill do this after ill get home, now my question is, after these changes, what will the imput lag difference be between standard 144hz without blur reduction on and 120 with blur on.

And how much of a difference in img quality will be, i really like the brightness without the blur reduction on, will it be the same or close enough?
Synis
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 21:06

Re: 6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby Falkentyne » 01 Jan 2016, 13:33

Synis wrote:Ok, ill do this after ill get home, now my question is, after these changes, what will the imput lag difference be between standard 144hz without blur reduction on and 120 with blur on.

And how much of a difference in img quality will be, i really like the brightness without the blur reduction on, will it be the same or close enough?


Try it yourself and see.
I don't have lag measuring equipment.
You're asking me what the difference is between 6.9ms and 8.4ms.
120hz with high strobe phase is IDENTICAL to blur reduction off at 120hz.
So you're asking what the difference is between 120hz and 144hz (8.3ms vs 6.9 ms).

Try it yourself and find out?
And as I already said, you can increase brightness by changing the amount of blur reduction by setting STROBE DUTY to a higher value.
When using a VT tweak, a high strobe phase limits the max strobe duty.
You need to do this work yourself so YOU can see how it works.

I'll leave you with this.
With 120hz and VT 1500 tweak, Maximum strobe phase + maximum strobe duty add up to 050. Use that to set your desired brightness.
so, 044+006, 041+009, 049+001, etc.

You have to try things yourself. Your monitor won't blow up or anything....

Always remember to set OSD Brightness to 100 when using blur reduction.
Falkentyne
 
Posts: 2333
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: 6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby monitor_butt » 07 Jan 2016, 14:11

Falkentyne wrote:Hi.
Your instincts were right. You should NOT use blur reduction at 144hz refresh rate because the "Crosstalk" (basically, image date from TWO different frames) winds up covering half the screen, because LCD panels simply can't transition the pixels fast enough to be able to strobe at such a high refresh rate.

Instead, it's better to use Blur Reduction at 120hz refresh rate. This is because the crosstalk is STILL going to be high (the lower the refresh rate, the less the crosstalk, because the frames refresh slower, which gives the pixels themselves more time to "transition"), but you can use something called a "vertical total" tweak, to lower the crosstalk at 120hz. This makes a very big difference in quality compared to NOT having a VT tweak, or using 144hz refresh rate. 144hz refresh rate can *NOT* use VT Tweaks at all (you will get an Out of Range error).

For CS:Go and 120hz refresh rate, so just get you going without having to answer too many random questions, just do this.

1) download ToastyX CRU (please don't use the Nvidia control panel, I do NOT have an Nvidia card. Everyone keeps asking me about Nvidia custom resoutions even on Steam messages, and I DONT OWN AN NVIDIA CARD!!)

2) download the ToastyX pixel clock patcher for DVI and run the Nvidia (or AMD Version for AMD) version of the patcher.

(Advanced users: if you want 1920x1080@85hz to work WITHOUT a VT tweak, or certain low resolutions like 1280x720 at certain refresh rates to work without a "Incorrect Cable error", rename the patcher and put a -DL or -dl at the end of the file name. This will cause ONLY the dual link DVI signal to be patched and NOT the single link DVI signal. certain lower refresh rates use the single link signals. this includes 1920x1080@85hz).

3) Make a custom resolution for 120hz with these timings:
1920x1080 Active.
front porch 48 pixels 3 line
sync width 32 pixels 5 lines
Horizontal Total: 2080
Vertical Total :1500 (the default vertical total for 120hz is 1144).

Save and restart the video card driver or restart the PC.

4) BEFORE SELECTING YOUR NEW 120hz resolution, please open the service menu and change the STROBE PHASE to 000 so the backlight doesn't shut off from a too high strobe phase.

(service menu codes are here at the TOP. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590 some people seem to not understand what buttons are what though).

5) Select your new 120hz refresh rate. To see if it worked, Open the MONITOR OSD under SYSTEM->INFORMATION. if it reports 1920x1080@60hz, IT MEANS IT WORKED--GOOD.

6) Now for CSS/ GO, Strobe phase 000 is NOT ideal. it will have 8.3ms HIGHER input lag than blur reduction off, OR a maximum strobe phase.
The maximum strobe phase for 120hz WITH a VT Tweak is 49. Without a VT tweak its 100 (please don't ask me why. it's in the other thread I linked. It take too long to explain why).

Now set your strobe phase to 049. The screen will get very dim as it increases. 50 shuts the backlight off. Now you need to REDUCE the strobe phase until its bright enough. I recommend for you, Strobe phase 043.

Then set the STROBE DUTY to 007.

043 strobe phase limits the maximum strobe duty to 007 (part of this is because 043+047= 50 and 50 shuts off the backlight).
This will give you the SAME input lag as blur reduction DISABLED, with the normal vsync on or off lag (depending on if u use vsync or not). You will have a little crosstalk at the bottom of the screen. but its ok for CS:Go.



You forgot to mention, NVIDIA users will need to select use a 'Custom Extension Block', or the custom resolution will not work. I'm going to try these settings when I get home, as I always just used NVIDIA control panel to put in the VTOTAL. Maybe that's why I always had that weird doubling effect, even when maintaing above 120fps with BBR on.
monitor_butt
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 06 Aug 2014, 20:23

Re: 6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby monitor_butt » 07 Jan 2016, 22:51

Ok, I tried with the values posted by Falk* using CRU and can report I no longer have the weird doubling effect of just using NVCP and lone VT1500 trick. I've had it on since I got home with 0 eye strain or headache, which with the old method that was frequently shared, I got a headache and eye strain within 30 minutes. I think it was due to the weird doubling effect and not the actual blur reduction.

Now if only BenQ would release a firmware fix for having to do the AMA high tweak trick every time.
Last edited by monitor_butt on 08 Jan 2016, 14:53, edited 1 time in total.
monitor_butt
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 06 Aug 2014, 20:23

Re: 6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby Falkentyne » 08 Jan 2016, 00:13

Glad it's working as it should work.
people need to stop using the Nvidia control panel to tweak stuff besides anything except downsampling.
People have even made the NVCP make the drivers think the Benq was running at 180 hz (!) refresh rate! And what's even worse, Chrome even detected 180hz ! But you can bet it was running no different than 144hz visually and if that were tested in a game, it would probably get the same old double image. Probably doing the exact same thing as downsampling, except making it run at 180 hz via the driver while the screen physically was at 144hz.

proof: when they created anything above 145 hz in toastyX CRU, it black screend with out of range.

How much do you want to bet that a lot of the people complaining about VT tweaks causing double images are using the Nvidia control panel and not ToastyX CRU?

Glad you are enjoying a non double image monitor now :)
Falkentyne
 
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Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: 6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby monitor_butt » 16 Jan 2016, 14:30

Is there anyway to get rid of the feint scan lines with these settings?
monitor_butt
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 06 Aug 2014, 20:23

Re: 6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby Falkentyne » 16 Jan 2016, 20:02

No, the monitor is being run out of normal specification (increased vertical blank).

It's the same effect as on the Qinx QX2414 monitors when you increase the refresh rate to 180hz+
You just have to accept it.
Falkentyne
 
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Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: 6hours old 2411Z V4 BR problem.

Postby monitor_butt » 17 Jan 2016, 08:11

Falkentyne wrote:No, the monitor is being run out of normal specification (increased vertical blank).

It's the same effect as on the Qinx QX2414 monitors when you increase the refresh rate to 180hz+
You just have to accept it.


Really isn't that bad, I only notice it in certain scenarios. This tweak with VSYNC on is really good. The only real problem, is I can't add 144hz now. Even in NVCP with default timing it always gives out of range. How do I add a 144hz profile while keeping these settings?
monitor_butt
 
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