Need help with settings

Adjusting BENQ Blur Reduction and DyAc (Dynamic Acceleration) including Blur Busters Strobe Utility. Supports most BenQ/Zowie Z-Series monitors (XL2411, XL2420, XL2720, XL2735, XL2540, XL2546)
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fakas
Posts: 5
Joined: 25 Jun 2016, 20:51

Need help with settings

Post by fakas » 25 Jun 2016, 21:21

Hi, i have been trying a lot of different settings, researched a lot and still can't find a suitable solution
These are the settings that i have atm:
https://postimg.org/image/c1o4kc2xd

Its smooth but i see some moving lines, like on a old CRT monitor, i am still trying different settings, getting an headache so far.
I have the v004 firmware, i may have altered some settings on the service page, this is what i have:
hdmi hdp: on
dvi hdp: off
logo: off
auto power: on
internet cafe:off
strobe duty: 19
strobe phase: 000
single strobe: on

Am pretty sure these are not the default and neither the best.. far from the best

On the blur utility i have 3.5ms persistance and 0 crosstalk
Its on 120 as you can see on the image above

Any help or links is very appreciated and yes i have used the search button, finding numerous dated threads with different firmware versions, this thread hopefully will also help anyone on the same situation
Last edited by fakas on 26 Jun 2016, 01:25, edited 1 time in total.

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Need help with settings

Post by Falkentyne » 26 Jun 2016, 00:53

Hi Fakas.
I'm not sure what you mean by "moving lines".
Are you talking about some sort of interference bar, moving up and down vertically, and extending horizontally across the screen?
Your explanation really doesn't give us much information.
You also didn't tell us what monitor you have !

And a strobe duty of 019 is extremely high. The blur reduction effect will be quite low, and there will also be some extra cross-talk at the top of the screen as well. I would only go that high on strobe duty at 144hz (because you can't use VT tweaks). Basically you should be aiming for a persistence value in a dimly lit rom, between 1.0ms to 1.5ms. Going as low as 0.5ms can work, but only in a completely black room, and only if you're Masterotaku ! :)

This won't help with your problem, but here are some ways to calculate persistence. The reason is, the windows utility is based on a "Vertical Total tweak" being active. The values there are NOT based on not having a VT tweak.

When a "VT tweak" is in use, persistence values are equal to 0.167ms per point of strobe duty. So strobe duty=006 is 0.167ms x 6 = 1ms, strobe duty 009=0.167ms x 9 = 1.5ms (the highest ms I would ever run at), and so on.

The VT 1350 tweak is a safe, but old tweak, and it also does not work at 100hz (causes stuttering); VT 1354 works at 100hz, but I prefer using VT 1500, as this is safe and gives better "Strobe crosstalk reduction" than VT 1350 / VT 1354.

Take some time to read my other "VT tweak" posts then you'll understand more about it.

Anyway, WITHOUT using a VT tweak, you need to know the persistence values for point of strobe duty.

60hz: 0.167ms (basically, 16.7ms , the value for 60hz frame time, divided by 100).
100hz: 0.1ms (10 ms divided by 100).
120hz: 0.083ms (8.3ms divided by 100).
144hz: 0.069ms (6.9ms divided by 100).

so if u are NOT using a VT tweak, if you want 1.5ms persistence at 100hz refresh rate, you would use a strobe duty of 015 (15 x 0.1).
At 120hz, this would be 0.083 x 18=1.494, so strobe duty 018. But I would prefer strobe duty =12 (0.083 x 12= 1ms) to keep the crosstalk at the top of the screen from getting too big.

(the larger the value of strobe duty, the crosstalk at the top of the screen starts moving downwards. Long story as to why).

Sorry I still can't help with your "line" issue, as I don't understand what you're trying to say or explain :(

fakas
Posts: 5
Joined: 25 Jun 2016, 20:51

Re: Need help with settings

Post by fakas » 26 Jun 2016, 02:02

I fixed the image link on the first post, and my monitor is xl2411z.
I simply cannot understand how you can have only 1ms persistance, and to be honest i upped to 3.5ms, otherwise it's just dark. I am comparing to a older normal full hd led monitor, and that one has brightness at 70, so i am not blind xD
About the lines, after messing around a bit on the cru program, they dissappeared i think, it was like when you first turn on a old crt and all the lines horizontally move downwards.
After reading more on your posts i am now trying different front porch and sync width,
"For 24", you usually want to use Front porch 48/3, and sync width 32/5 (pixels/lines)"
Tomorrow i will do further testing, but clearly still as it should be :/
p.s: I wonder if this this normal, horizontal 2200, vertical 1500, weird lines appear, like artifacts in games...

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Need help with settings

Post by Falkentyne » 26 Jun 2016, 03:31

Scroll down if u want answer about the squiggly lines. I know whats causing it now.
============================

Remember what I told you?
The blur busters utility is based on using a VT tweak.
*IF* you aren't using a VT tweak, the persistence values ONLY WORK AT 60hz !

P.S. WHENEVER USING BLUR REDUCTION, ALWAYS, ALWAYS SET THE BRIGHTNESS TO 100 !

Avoid 50hz "single strobe" due to a bug; SS strobe data is missing for 50hz, yet double strobe works.

This article explains what happens to the monitor when the Vertical Total is set out of specification for the established refresh rate:

http://display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/BenQ_XL2411Z

(Note: assuming 1920x1080; default VT's are, 1125 @ 60hz, 1133 @100hz, 1144@120hz, 1146@125hz. Note: 60hz causes porch and sync to revert to 88/4 and 44/5. I think 1117 forces 75hz. if the VT is out of range of these values, the monitor reverts to 60hz pulse widths, while still maintaining strobe sync with the refresh rate so you get smooth blur reduction still. This "feature" was REMOVED in the XL2730Z !

A VT tweak forces the monitor to use the 60hz persistence values, even at higher refresh rates.
60hz has a frame time of 16.7 milliseconds.
The persistence is the frame time divided by 100, because the strobe phase is split into 100 different values.
So 16.7 divided by 100 = 0.167ms.

So, at 60hz refresh rate. strobe duty 006=1.0ms persistence.
But at 144hz refresh rate, it's strobe duty 014-015 (0.966 - 1.035ms).

Please remember this.

That's why the monitor brightness will increase when you use a VT tweak. because the base persistence is "longer".

0.167ms (60hz pulse widths) is LONGER than 0.069ms (144hz pulse widths), as 0.167ms is a larger number than 0.069ms.


===================================================================

Ok and about the weird lines, its because you're using the wrong timings and pushing the pixel clock out of range for the monitor.

The horizontal total should be 2080, NOT 2200.
2200 is for 1920x1080@60hz.

Go into "ToastyX Custom resolution Utility" and make a custom resolution 1920x1080. Set it to automatic.
Then enter 60hz. Notice the horizontal total and the front porch and sync width values ?

Then set it to 100hz or 120hz.

Watch what happens to the values. You're getting lines because you're mixing everything up.

Here is what I recommend:

1920x1080@100hz.
Porch 48/3
Sync 32/5
HT: 2080
VT: 1500 (or 1502).

1920x1080@120hz
Porch 48/3
Sync: 32/5
HT: 2080
VT: 1500 (don't use 1502; about 20% of the time, you will get stuttering/lag/pulsating backlight on resolution changes or display mode picture changes).

If you are using a mouse that polls at 500hz instead of 1000hz, you might get a clearer image by using 125hz refresh rate, as 125 divides evenly into 500, while 120hz does NOT. (100hz is fine too for 500hz polling rate mice).

For 125hz I have these timings:

1920x1080@125hz
Porch 48/3
sync 32/5
Horizontal total: 2080
Vertical total: 1497 (other values like 1500, 1502, 1499, 1498, have a larger chance of getting pulsating backlight/periodic stuttering sometimes).


The VT range for crosstalk reduction is 1497-1502. All of them are equal in reduction. There is NO difference between 1497 to 1502, except at certain refresh rates, certain values will cause lag/stuttering while other values won't. For example: at 85hz refresh rate (if you create a custom 85hz), 1501 works perfectly. but 1502,1500, 1499, 1498 and 1497 stutter 90% of the time!)

fakas
Posts: 5
Joined: 25 Jun 2016, 20:51

Re: Need help with settings

Post by fakas » 26 Jun 2016, 13:57

1920x1080@120hz
Porch 48/3
Sync: 32/5
HT: 2080
VT: 1500

Using these settings i can still see some lines, but they are not moving, specially noticable on gray colours, ie firefox, windows 10 menu is clearly with lines

If i put on 60hz, it flickers so bad my eyes hurt, not exaggerating.
At 125hz with the 1497 vt, the moving crt lines appear, do i have a bad monitor?
Using the dvi, v4 firmware version.
I have a second monitor plugged in, but on the mobotherboards dvi, not on the graphics card maybe this can be an issue?

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Need help with settings

Post by Falkentyne » 26 Jun 2016, 16:38

The non moving lines you are referring to are scanlines. That's a common issue with this Au monitor panel. The same lines happen if you use 3d vision to enable "Lightboost" mode. It varies from panel to panel in how visible it is. You get them in "lightboost" mode, because Lightboost uses an internal timing to force the same accelerated scanout (increased blanking interval) mode that VT 1497-VT 1502 does as a custom resolution; it just does it from the Lightboost VT modes that enable LB (100hz= VT 1138, 110hz= VT 1143, 120hz= VT 1149).

It's a side effect of pushing a panel to specification limits or out of normal operating range. It doesn't cause damage however, but it can be distracting. Just don't look at grey backgrounds :)

125hz moving lines? With HT 2080 that shouldn't happen. Is your pixel clock 389.22 MHz and horizontal 187.125 kHz?
This is stable on my XL2720Z over both DVI and Displayport. Masterotaku used 125hz on his XL2411Z without moving lines.

It doesn't happen at 120hz (Pixel clock 374.40 MHz, with HT 2080, VT 1500 @ 120hz), however? Only at 125hz?

Please unplug the second monitor from the motherboard and test 125hz again.
Also try swapping the DVI cables.

If you're bored can you do me a favor after you do that?

Test this custom resolution please on your XL2411Z.

2560x1440
48/3
32/5
HT: 2720
VT: 1502
100hz refresh rate.

Stable with no swimming pixels? OSD system info reports 2560x1440@60hz ? (60hz is normal report because out of specification Vertical Totals make the monitor use 60hz strobe pulse widths (0.167ms).

fakas
Posts: 5
Joined: 25 Jun 2016, 20:51

Re: Need help with settings

Post by fakas » 26 Jun 2016, 19:07

It is really disctracting, and i see gray everywhere :(

I removed the second monitor, reseted all entries on the cru and rebooted
at 125hz i can only see the scanlines, not moving i think if they are it's barely noticable, the pixel clock is at 390mhz
the 2560x1440 test, works fine and no lines whatsoever, it does report 60hz on the monitor.

Problem though it isn't smooth on 120/125 as i move around it feels blurry besides the scanlines
What about if i disable blur reduction?

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Need help with settings

Post by Falkentyne » 27 Jun 2016, 02:30

Sorry for taking awhile to reply. I've been playing street fighter 5 and also dealing with pain and disabilities. Not exactly fun while trying to train. Anyway,

It will be blurry if the persistence is too high.
If you're still using a strobe duty of 18, that's WAY WAY WAY too high.
When using a VT Tweak, the strobe pulse widths are 0.167ms per strobe duty, so when you set the brightness to 100 (always set the brightness to 100 when using blur reduction), a Strobe duty of 006 is 1.0ms persistence.

I don't know how you think that is too dark. At 120hz, 1.0ms persistence is actually equal to 80 cd/m2, which is the preferred monitor brightness in dimly lit rooms at night. Going above 1.5ms persistence (strobe duty=009 when using a VT tweak) starts making the image too blurry.

For daytime usage, I recommend strobe duty 009 (no higher), and strobe duty 006 for night usage, both assume you are using a VT tweak.
This is assuming a strobe phase of "000".

Note: When using a VT tweak, at 100hz, Strobe phase of 054 is equal to strobe duty of 006 in reverse, but you will have 1 frame LOWER input lag (faster response) with strobe phase 054, compared to strobe phase 000. Strobe phase 059 is equal to strobe duty 001, and strobe phase 060 shuts the backlight off.

At 120hz, Strobe phase =044 is equal to strobe duty 006 in reverse, but lower input lag (1 frame faster) than strobe phase 000.
Strobe phase 049 is equal to strobe duty 001, and phase 050 shuts off the backlight. Remember this only applies for VT tweaks.

The math and reason why this happens is in my very long VT thread write up I wrote.

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590

It's long but it explains precisely what the relationship between "Max strobe phase", Strobe duty, persistence, strobe pulse widths, and Vertical total tweaks are, as well as the best VT values at different refresh rates, that won't cause scalar stuttering bugs.

For reference, Lightboost 10% has a persistence of 1.4ms at 120hz and 2.1ms at 100 hz. Benq adapted Lightboost for its own blur reduction, which is why the backlight voltage is increased by 1.8x when MBR is enabled. The ULMB gsync monitors do not increase backlight voltage current when using ULMB, that's why people say ULMB is too dark.

fakas
Posts: 5
Joined: 25 Jun 2016, 20:51

Re: Need help with settings

Post by fakas » 27 Jun 2016, 08:17

Image

This is the difference (strobe duty 9)... if i turn off blur reduction, its shines more than the bloody sun
Connected both monitors to the 7950 now
Stobe duty is at 15 and it is quite less bright than the other screen
I was now playing the ufo test, there is ghosting with and without blur reduction

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