OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

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Re: OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

Postby masterotaku » 11 Jan 2016, 15:17

nuninho1980 wrote:If this OLED monitor has 0.2 ms or shorter persistence time (IMPORTANT: NOT equal to response time ;)) then I'll buy it.


Unless it has insane maximum brightness, like 1000cd/m^2 (or at least 600), you won't see shit :P . With my XL2411Z I can usually stand 0.5 or 0.6667 ms and find Lightboost 10% too bright sometimes, but many people don't share my brightness perception :lol: .

But yes, higher resolutions need proportionally shorter persistence to appreciate all the pixels in movement (at the same percentage/second of screen movement).
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Re: OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

Postby Trip » 11 Jan 2016, 16:19

I hope they will introduce a rolling scan with the oled displays as a standard. It would be even better then strobing as this doesn't even add any extra latency. The only thing they need to do to get the tearing gone is just up the refresh rate. With panels already reaching 200hz (acer z35) right from the factory I don't see how oled can't use those circuit boards. Oled's have way faster transition times then lcd's so it will look even better then lcd's at high refresh rates.
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Re: OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

Postby Glide » 11 Jan 2016, 22:10

I don't know, I might sacrifice a frame of latency if it meant that we could have a globally updated display, instead of a rolling scan.
Once you get to high resolutions and high framerates, skew starts to be noticeable.

And I assume you mean a low-persistence rolling scan like this, where some amount of the display is black at all times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTfvwOGu4EI
Rather than sample & hold which keeps the entire display illuminated at once, since OLEDs are still updated line-by-line like LCDs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54E3uUEryZM
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Re: OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

Postby Trip » 12 Jan 2016, 08:57

I don't know, I might sacrifice a frame of latency if it meant that we could have a globally updated display, instead of a rolling scan.

I think it also depends on the game and how important latency is with regards to the game. When I play single player games I am not annoyed by low frame rates or latency I only feel the need to get high frame rates and low latency in multiplayer games. When I play single player games I usually am quite satisfied already with like 50-60 fps and 30 ms latency. But when playing multiplayer as long as I don't have to sacrifice resolution I usually and up cranking all the graphics down to get the highest frame rate and disable any sort of syncing or whatever could cause delays. I think a motion blur decreasing method without the latency would be perfect for me when playing multiplayer games. I really like the crt's way to eliminate motion blur. ulmb still doesn't come close to how nice crt's play in fast paced shooters. Thats why I really hope oled comes with a technique similar to the crt's to eliminate the motion blur while still giving low latency.
Glide wrote:And I assume you mean a low-persistence rolling scan like this, where some amount of the display is black at all times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTfvwOGu4EI

Yeah that is exactly what I am hoping for, I hope they will introduce it in most oled monitors and in the future increase the time the display stays black as oled matures more and pixels start getting brighter and that will gradually eliminate any artifacts from the rolling scan. But I fear it will be the same as with lcd's and they will prefer the lower energy consumption variable syncing (gsync, freesync) brings and since these two technologies don't go hand in hand well it will probably be underdeveloped :/. My only hope is that VR catches on and will shift the attention away from energy saving into just raw display performance as this technology makes motion blur, latency and low framerates even more obvious then with traditional displays.
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Re: OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 03 Feb 2016, 17:13

Glide wrote:Well we know that it won't. It will probably be a completely flicker-free display.
But 0.2ms seems like a rather steep goal considering that CRTs are in the region of 1-2ms.

Depends on CRT. Many CRT's go that low for effective persistence (decay to ~90%). Samsung Syncmaster, for example, did...

It's hard to nail an exact measurement, since phosphor decay is a curve rather than squarewave (like strobing). And it depends on how bright it is driven to. But most effective human visible effects of persistence is gone after 0.2ms on several CRT models at average brightness level.

The 1-2ms is for medium persistence CRTs like the Sony W900 series (widescreen Trinitron computer monitor).
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Re: OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 04 Feb 2016, 09:25

Even without strobing yet, this is still a huge step for computer monitors.

It won't be long before gaming monitor manufacturers are all over this, and add rolling-scan logic to it.

It's no longer "if?", but "when?" now. Not this monitor, but one of the next.

Thanks to OLED rolling scan (when it happens) -- LAGLESS low persistence FTW! Parity with CRT! No LightBoost lag. Competition gamers will be all over this like bees to honey.

And when rolling scan is added, a pulsewidth adjustment should be mandatory. Pulsewidth fully adjustable, with zero artifacts, all the way from nearly zero persistence (but very dim) all the way to full persistence (full sample and hold) -- since it's just a rolling window, kind of like adjusting the height of a rolling camera shutter (for those familiar with that stuff).
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Re: OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

Postby spacediver » 04 Feb 2016, 12:29

From what I understand, the main obstacle for low persistence OLED is being able to drive up the luminance to a high enough level to compensate for the relatively short duty cycle.

Anyone know more about the limitations here? Are they theoretically surmountable?
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Re: OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

Postby flood » 07 Feb 2016, 20:13

i think theoretically there are no issues, but i feel that there won't be much demand for hardware that supports high-luminance... unless hdr takes off :D
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Re: OLED 0,1ms response time and 120Hz?

Postby Glide » 08 Feb 2016, 07:26

Unfortunately the finalized HDR specs only require that a display is capable of a 400 nit all-white image.
Though the peak values can go higher than that, the total scene brightness is supposed to be 400 nits or less.
So I don't know that we can count on HDR support increasing the brightness high enough to properly support <1ms persistence.
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