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BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Lim » 19 Jul 2017, 07:37

Ok thanks. Its good to know that pixle inversion is a normal feature and its good to know for me but probably not for most viewers which just want to buy a monitor. So pixel inversion just has established over the last year. for this "issue". Its like 4k has established in 4k gaming monitors which should be called UHD Gaming. Or like "f***** marketing" is the wrong vocabulary for wrong stated informations etc :) I make this test in nearly each monitor and only a few doesnt showing any colors. But it also depends on different osd settings like game mode etc, which makes it more complicated to "create" an overview. Whatsoever, some monitors does not show colors at these tests but still artifacts or glittering or lines in certain image content, which makes it even more complicated to evaluate a monitor in this specific topic.... :)

Chief what do you think, 180 hz benq strobing or 120 hz ulmb strobing on a tn ? Which will result in a cleaner motion or creates less artifacts? I never had that Benq, but I probably will order a model soon

Thanks for your response :D
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 19 Jul 2017, 13:53

Lim wrote:Ok thanks. Its good to know that pixle inversion is a normal feature

Hey :)
Please be careful to say "pixel inversion" separately from "pixel inversion artifacts"!!!!

Glossary / Dictionary / Definition

pixel inversion: The electronics technique built into all LCDs, of alternating pixel voltages, to prevent static electricity buildup. Usually this is completely invisible and not seen by human eye. It's there, it's the law, LCDs mandatorily has pixel inversion -- out of necessity. Like electricity or water.

pixel inversion artifacts: Human-visible image artifacts that are a side effect of unbalanced/imperfect pixel inversion. Pixel inversion requires precise voltages, microvolt precision, but it is extremely difficult to have perfectly mirrored voltages during alternating pixel voltages. When imbalances occur, in imperfect pixel inversion, you may see checkerboard patterns, vertical/horizontal lines, usually showing up in (a) solid colors, (b) flickering colors, (c) certain motion speeds

The two things are not the same. Too many people confuse the two things! :D
One is an electronics balancing technique, and the other is human-eye-visible issue.

Imagine inversion as the hot/cold water pipes in the house. And inversion issues as a bad water faucet that has problems balancing hot/cold. It's hard to have a all water faucet have perfect warm temperature. Turning on other faucets in the house or flushing a toilet (e.g. displaying a specific patterns on a monitor) can cause a water temperature change at a different water faucet (e.g. appearance of inversion issue somewhere else on the monitor). Whatever a monitor is currently displaying can also amplify/attenuate inversion issues. It's very complex for a monitor to perfectly balance the positive/negative voltages to the point where it is always perfectly, completely invisible.
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Lim » 19 Jul 2017, 17:13

Haha nice, good to know thanks 8-)

The only one Pixel Inversion Artifacts which bothered me was into the CFG70. Mostly on TNs where artifacts occur I can only barely see or they are pretty rare.. at least in my experience. Thanks for the info, I should make a glossary as well. This really can save time before answering questions again and again :P
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Falkentyne » 19 Jul 2017, 21:58

We need anyone with the XL2546 to try DISABLING DyAc in the service menu and then see if AMD Freesync becomes available to be used.
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby gimmejokers » 29 Jul 2017, 12:56

Please someone advise me on the difference between the 2540 and the 2546.
Is there any difference between DyAc and the BR that can be activated in the service menu on the 2540?
I mean, BenQ just has one kind of BR or don't they? Anything else to consider?
Thanks!
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 29 Jul 2017, 13:13

gimmejokers wrote:Please someone advise me on the difference between the 2540 and the 2546.
Is there any difference between DyAc and the BR that can be activated in the service menu on the 2540?
I mean, BenQ just has one kind of BR or don't they? Anything else to consider?

We need to benchmark BR vs DyAc to see if it's identical.

They might be, but we don't yet simultaneously have a DyAc and a non-DyAc monitor in hand to verfiy.

Blur Reduction comes in all kinds with a lot of variables, but generally BenQ/Zowie has been very refresh-rate-flexible (Above ~75Hz to monitor max), with both adjustable strobe length (brightness vs motion clarity tradeoff) and strobe phase (adjusts strobe crosstalk, the intensity of double-image artifacts in screen centre)
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby frankfurt » 03 Aug 2017, 01:22

So apparently DyAc is always enabled and cannot be disabled in the OSD menu. Also there is no other option for any kind of Blur Reduction.
This really makes me question the whole point of this monitor. If you could just get the XL2540 and have the option to enable/disable Blur Reduction then why would you get the XL2546 which forces you to have Blur Reduction (DyAc) on at all times? Obviously there must be a difference between Blur Reduction and DyAc. Still waiting for someone to investigate this... Btw it took them over half a year to make DyAc work on this 240Hz panel.
Also if this is the new top model of their 240Hz esports lineup then tournaments and pro players should be getting this monitor eventually. Many, if not almost all, pro players (at least in CSGO) always play with Blur Reduction disabled. I'm guessing that's because of the lower brightness, added input lag and the strobing potentially causing headaches and so on (I remember when they had pro players talk about how good the new flicker free monitors were a while back. Now they're forcing it back onto them?).
So basically all of these players will be forced to play with these things that they don't like?

I would really like to know the answers to these questions.

1. What is the difference between BenQ Blur Reduction (XL2540) and DyAc (XL2546)?
2. Is this difference worth the extra money and not being able to turn it off?
3. Is there any way to turn DyAc off via Software? And if so, would that just turn it into an XL2540 or is there any other difference between the two monitors?
4. Why does BenQ/Zowie not market Blur Reduction on the XL2540 but they market DyAc on the XL2546?


Edit: I'm stupid. The XL2540 doesn't have Blur Reduction. That pretty much answers half of my questions.
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby lexlazootin » 03 Aug 2017, 08:25

1. What is the difference between BenQ Blur Reduction (XL2540) and DyAc (XL2546)?
2. Is this difference worth the extra money and not being able to turn it off?
3. Is there any way to turn DyAc off via Software? And if so, would that just turn it into an XL2540 or is there any other difference between the two monitors?
4. Why does BenQ/Zowie not market Blur Reduction on the XL2540 but they market DyAc on the XL2546?


Edit: I'm stupid. The XL2540 doesn't have Blur Reduction. That pretty much answers half of my questions.


The XL2540 does have it, you just have to do it from the service menu.

1. BR and DyAc are pretty identical, they either adjusted the Crosstalk or the AMA.

2. It's worth what ever you're willing to pay.

3. There is nothing to "turn off" the DyAc is just fixing bugs.

4. Money
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 03 Aug 2017, 14:43

Have you tried Blur Busters Strobe Utility?

It should already work with the XL2546.

The "Override" checkbox turns ON/OFF strobing on a Benq XL2540 -- does it do the same on an XL2546?
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 03 Aug 2017, 14:44

lexlazootin wrote:3. There is nothing to "turn off" the DyAc is just fixing bugs.

Ideally, it's not the final frontier.

Achieving 1ms persistence more perfectly should be done without strobing or flicker, but to do 1ms persistence (frame visibility times), requires (1000ms/1ms) = 1000fps @ 1000Hz to have True 1ms MPRT low-persistence without strobing. (Important: MPRT ≠ GtG). This is currently un-obtainium except on laboratory displays, some of which I have seen. Doing low-persistence in a strobeless manner would also be much more lagless than strobing, too. It'll probably happen eventually (and sooner than many people think).
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