Re: FPS & Variable refresh rate unable to sync in Dota 2
Posted: 12 Mar 2023, 14:54
Also just to make sure, VSYNC needs to be enabled via NVCP in Global settings or Program settings? Because setting it globally doesn't affect anything in game.
Who you gonna call? The Blur Busters! For Everything Better Than 60Hz™
https://forums.blurbusters.com/
Right, and again, G-SYNC will show frame-pacing issues as-is. It's a 1:1 mirror of system performance (just without tearing), whereas standalone V-SYNC is not.bilalirfanpk wrote: ↑12 Mar 2023, 14:48Yes agreed with that. If my FPS and VRR matches in Dota, then I just wonder what could be the issue. It seems like its frame pacing issue which is causing stutters.
Hm, then Dota just seems to be hard on some CPUs, and CPU-limited games can tend toward more sporadic frametime performance.bilalirfanpk wrote: ↑12 Mar 2023, 14:48I am using Intel i5 10400F paired with RTX 2060. OpenGL doesn't work anymore with Dota and I have tried Vulkan which had even worst fps and stuttering overall. Currently my game is running on DX11.
For Dota, it likely won't. The game is just running on a very old engine that relies too heavily on the CPU, and probably single-threaded performance at that.bilalirfanpk wrote: ↑12 Mar 2023, 14:48Maybe upgrading my W10 to Windows 11 might help. I don't know.
Whichever works for that game, though it's odd to hear that forcing V-SYNC globally via NVCP isn't applying it in Dota for you. Try clean installing the latest Nvidia driver via DDU if you haven't already.bilalirfanpk wrote: ↑12 Mar 2023, 14:54Also just to make sure, VSYNC needs to be enabled via NVCP in Global settings or Program settings? Because setting it globally doesn't affect anything in game.
I was going through reddit and came across HAGS (Hardware accelerated GPU scheduling), it has always been ON since years for me but I read for many users it causes stutters and turning it off solves all their problems. As HAGS tends to lower down CPU utilization, I feel like maybe its causing system side stuttering in Dota. What if its not letting CPU render the frames that game needs as the game itself is running on old engine utilizing single core. HAGS works well with the newer games and funny thing, all the new games that I play have no issues with Feesync + HAGS ON. It somehow makes sense. I will go back home and check. Kinda excited lmao. Hopefully its the culprit.
Actually I keep custom settings for Dota in program settings and keep the Global settings intact. So if I enable vsync globally, my Dota settings via NVCP would be different so Vsync must be off for Dota.
HAGS effects can be system-specific, but it has caused more (replicable) stutter for me when on than off across multiple builds, including my current one. I personally only enable it whenever I want to use DLSS3 (where it's currently a requirement).bilalirfanpk wrote: ↑13 Mar 2023, 07:35I was going through reddit and came across HAGS (Hardware accelerated GPU scheduling), it has always been ON since years for me but I read for many users it causes stutters and turning it off solves all their problems. As HAGS tends to lower down CPU utilization, I feel like maybe its causing system side stuttering in Dota. What if its not letting CPU render the frames that game needs as the game itself is running on old engine utilizing single core. HAGS works well with the newer games and funny thing, all the new games that I play have no issues with Feesync + HAGS ON. It somehow makes sense. I will go back home and check. Kinda excited lmao. Hopefully its the culprit.
That would explain it, if so.
I feel slight less stuttering after turning off HAGS, like 30% less. Though 70% still remains. FML.
Sorry to bug you again but just sharing frametime graph to know if what is better.
Again, if the game is experiencing frametime jitter, it's normal for VRR to reflect it.bilalirfanpk wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 08:00Sorry to bug you again but just sharing frametime graph to know if what is better.
I tried Capframex last night and the graph from scanline wasn't as smooth either as shown by RTSS. Anyhow, I tried 100hz 100fps for a better and smooth gameplay which I got know that this game cannot manage at all if game goes over 50 mins )jorimt wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 08:53Again, if the game is experiencing frametime jitter, it's normal for VRR to reflect it.bilalirfanpk wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 08:00Sorry to bug you again but just sharing frametime graph to know if what is better.
As for the RTSS FPS vs. VRR meter being offset, it's likely due to them not polling at the exact same intervals, which means the reporting on each may end up being a bit out of sync (it is an unofficial add-on after all).
Regarding the frametime graph differences, if you want a more accurate frametime comparison between the two, you should use CapFrameX, since the RTSS frametime graph will almost always show as flat when using it to limit itself (so long as the framerate can be sustained at said limit):
https://www.capframex.com/
What matters between the two scenarios is what you see/feel with or without the readouts; frametime performance is for the sole benefit of the player, after all, not the readouts, which aren't playing the game. I.E. It's easy to correlate what you're seeing on the readouts with what you're seeing on the screen, and, in some cases, it can actually make it "feel" worse than it is.
Beyond that, since I can't replicate your issues in that game on my "OP" system (which will probably be considered only mid-range in 5 years ), I have little else to offer on this specific game's performance on lower-end systems.
Not so much money wasted, as expectations deflated by reality. Unless you can purely brute force it with overkill specs, CPU-limited games like Dota will typically exhibit more stuttering issues with a framerate limited by system performance instead of an FPS limit and/or V-SYNC at the refresh rate.bilalirfanpk wrote: ↑15 Mar 2023, 02:43I dropped to 85fps lowest and I had terrible micro stuttering. Did not know that earlier because I was playing on 75hz/75fps before getting this monitor for years so this game was ultra smooth for me and I thought why people even have issues with stuttering lmao.
I guess money wasted.
I recently upgraded from 3rd gen to 10th gen and from 1050ti to 2060 last year so I guess I will stick to it and wont be able to overkill it with really high end specs. Not that I cannot afford it but just its not my priority at the moment. I am currently downloading other GPU dependent games like Apex and more and might play less Dota though its an addiction for me. I might enjoy casual FPS gaming in the meantime.jorimt wrote: ↑15 Mar 2023, 09:03Not so much money wasted, as expectations deflated by reality. Unless you can purely brute force it with overkill specs, CPU-limited games like Dota will typically exhibit more stuttering issues with a framerate limited by system performance instead of an FPS limit and/or V-SYNC at the refresh rate.
I.E. while your particular system was able to maintain a consistent 75 FPS/Hz in that game, trying to exceed that with a higher refresh rate monitor on the same system resulted in it being pushed too hard, causing frametime performance issues; even if a weaker system can sustain a higher average framerate, it doesn't necessarily mean said framerate can maintain consistent frametimes.
The higher the refresh rate + sustain framerate, the harder the system has to work, and the more obvious any framerate slowdown or frametime performance issues will be, since the contrast between 165 FPS/Hz and 85 FPS/Hz is much higher than 75 FPS/Hz, to well, 75 FPS/Hz.
Achievable 0.1% and 1% lows in framerates are very important where high frame/refresh rate gaming are concerned.
That said, as you've already witnessed, you should have less frametime performance issues in GPU-limited games on that same system/monitor combo. And again, Dota is not the best example of peak-engine technology, where many (most) players have performance issues at higher frame/refresh rates.
Yes I did try that and the stutter is terrible and unplayable. Not sure why despite VRR is same as FPS and static as well. Here's how it looks. https://imgur.com/a/H3DpR9R?s=wa