Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

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Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Falkentyne » 02 Nov 2016, 20:45

Trying to see if there is more interest in low refresh rate strobe support.
As many people already realize, strobing low refresh rates like 60hz, by double strobing, looks probably worse than having no blur reduction at all, because instead of having motion blur, you have a double image. Motion blur can be accepted by the brain, but a double image simply cannot.

The only monitors capable of "single strobing" low refresh rates are typical CRT panels, which are only limited by their max KHz values in their compatible refresh rates, and the *ORIGINAL* Benq Z series monitors via enabling the "Single Strobe" option on the XL2411Z, XL2420Z, XL2720Z and XL2430T. These are the ONLY monitors that can single strobe low refresh rates per frame without any strange hardware/software bugs to enable it.

This option is VERY nice to have on game consoles, as 60 FPS/60hz is VERY blurry with sample and hold motion blur with 16.7ms of screen persistence. With single strobe blur reduction, you can get a MUCH smoother more natural image, but at the cost of pretty intense flickering, just like a 60hz CRT monitor and maybe even more noticeable. Some people don't mind this flicker if the option is available, but some are very sensitive to it. But I want to know if people WANT this option to be available by choice if they want to enable a low refresh rate blur reduction (as no one likes double strobing as far as I know).

The Benq XL2730Z is very buggy, not only does Vertical Total changes not reduce strobe crosstalk at all even though you are extending the blanking interval, but any refresh rate lower than 120hz strobes at 8.3ms (120hz) timings, causing sync stuttering and an unusable display. And 60hz will double strobe (8.3ms timings).

The Benq XL2735 seems to fix the bugs in the XL2730Z, but at the cost of not having freesync. This may be a hardware limitation, but the XL2735 seems to function more like the old XL2720Z, but in 1440p format; VT tweaks work again, up to VT 1825, Strobe crosstalk is reduced considerably at 100hz and 120hz with it applied, but one thing is missing:

No Single Strobe override switch.
This means no blur reduction in 60hz locked games like Dark Souls, or with HDMI/console output at 60hz, unless you want that nasty double strobe again.

I believe having an option for Single Strobe should be implemented in a firmware update by Benq.
What do you guys think?

Remember---"if you don't want to use it, you don't have to" but what is the drawback of at least having the CHOICE of using it, like the XL2420Z/XL2720Z already give you?
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby 3dfan » 03 Nov 2016, 07:54

of course i would love to have more choices for current monitors to be able to use 60hz like a crt, personaly i dont have issues with it, use it for many things i do on my fw900 crt (desktop usage. emulators, 60fps limited games or heavy games my system cannot handle beyond 60fps) and when i enjoy playing some games at higher fps than 60 as long as my system can handle that load (specialy for how smoother the mouse feels) i also enjoy 60hz.

i am aware crt monitors are no longer supported as analog devices on current graphic cards and my fw900 now does some extrange high pitch noice while its warming up that could mean a near death due to its age, so there will not be other options rather to be forced to adquire a new monitor.

i have read some of your post and your anwers to my questions in other topics and this worries me the now "old" Zseries benq seems to be the only ones to be able to handle 60hz like a crt and some day those would be discontinued, with no more choices to use those with ugly 60 hz strobing that you call double strobing.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 03 Nov 2016, 15:17

I definitely like the single strobe option at lower refresh rates (60Hz). Yes, it flickers like a mofo, but it works great in certain stuff like emulators and other 60Hz stuff.

People who purchase strobed blur-reduction monitors (LightBoost/etc) are often a savvy lot, that want some of the extra adjustment tweaks, and peoples' purchase decisions depend on this.

Increasing the strobe length (e.g. To around 4ms) and decreasing average brightness, helps reduce flicker a lot -- and lengthening the blanking intervals greatly help the strobe crosstalk problem (large blanking intervals cause the panel to be scanned faster per refresh cycle, for a longer pause between refresh cycles -- letting pixel transitions settle down before being strobed, to reduce/eliminate double-image effects of motion on backlight-strobed blur reduction monitors).

If manufacturers are concerned about flicker, then bury it in a service menu, or Advanced User menu (with a flicker warning message, even).

Everyone, I encourage you to reply to this thread. I'll be happy to send a link to this thread to monitor manufacturers.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Q83Ia7ta » 03 Nov 2016, 20:02

It's always good to have a freedom to change the things.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Haste » 13 Nov 2016, 15:17

I would also like to have access to longer strobe duty (even higher than 4ms if possible)

I'm one of the unfortunate "very sensible to flicker" peeps. And I don't use ULMB even at 120Hz 100% strobe duty because I find it straining.
if longer strobe duty were available, I think there is a good chance that I could find a setting that I find acceptable. Basically exchanging a bit of motion clarity for a bit less flickering.

Also if monitor manufacturers manage to raise the frequency at which strobbing can work, that would help a lot too! Especially now that there are 240hz monitors coming soon.

Just my 2cents.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Chief Blur Buster » Yesterday, 21:14

One possible compromise is:

Shaders/Drivers with software-based Black Frame Insertion

If someone has the programmer skillz to do this -- Basically a shader/driver that runs in the backgrounds and automatically adds single-strobe support via software-based black frame insertion (blacking-out every other 120Hz refresh cycle), either as a driver or a shader or a video filter. I think this could provide a universal solution, even at a brightness tradeoff...
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