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LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

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LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 20 Dec 2016, 12:54

What a beautiful work of art.

I wonder if this is a scanning-based laser projector capable of low persistence.

(Not all laser projectors are direct scanning.... Some reflect off a DLP chip).

If so, 1080p, zero lag, AND low persistance.
In theory, at least. Not confirmed... but if so -- competition gamer's dream? Fingers crossed.

This definitely needs a test!

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/12/ ... -footprint

probeam.jpg
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Re: LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby thatoneguy » 20 Dec 2016, 19:11

Sorry to burst your bubble but there's no chance that's a laser scanning projector
It's most likely DLP or LED with Laser as Light Source like all other high-end Laser Projectors out there
Microvision(and some of it's partners like Celluon, Sony, STM) are the only ones who are working on them

I recommend you follow this subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/MVIS/ to get news on the tech(bear in mind though that developments on this tech are extremely slow)
The latest product from Microvision does 55 lumen at their "claimed" resolution of 1920x720

According to Karl Guttag who tested it...it's more like 360p and it even is sharper on the centre while not as sharp at the sides(it's a compromise)
http://www.kguttag.com/2015/06/02/cellu ... echnology/
http://www.kguttag.com/2015/06/06/cellu ... y-revisit/

Now mathematically if they used 6 times as many Laser Diodes they could get to true 1080p@60hz at the same lumen rate but they're not in the market for traditional projectors

If their persistence really is at 15 nanoseconds as they claimed then that explains the troubles with scaling this technology

If you think about it
A PicoBit is close to a typical consumer CRT(in paper not in overall quality) that works similarly to a CRT(i.e it's a scanning display) that fits in your pocket and that in itself is impressive but that's about it
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Re: LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby nuninho1980 » 21 Dec 2016, 06:09

I'm interested. :D New 1080p laser is for excellent multimedia at 50Hz (due to the source 50i interlaced video in Portugal) and for gaming at minimum 60Hz - this projector is similar to CRT monitor. :)
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HDDs: WD 1TB + 2TB ext-USB
PSU: NOX 1 kW
Monitor: CRT 19" Samsung SM 957MB :D
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Re: LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby thatoneguy » 21 Dec 2016, 13:35

nuninho1980 wrote:this projector is similar to CRT monitor. :)

It is NOT
This is not a Scanning Laser Projector

This is a Laser DLP(that uses Laser as light-source) most likely
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Re: LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby RLBURNSIDE » 31 Dec 2016, 15:42

It's blue laser + yellow phosphor (to generate red and green) therefore they can't be doing direct RGB laser scanning, since they lost the ability to modulate the colours independently due to only having blue lasers.

That also guarantees it's using a physical colour wheel to modulate the RGB sub-pictures independently on the DLP's DMD, which is unfortunate for those who see rainbows.

The high lumens and long-lifespan make this somewhat interesting, but it won't be low persistence, however DLPs have the best motion handling characteristics of any projector tech (aside from RGB laser scanning).

Given that it's from LG that also probably means it doesn't have 120hz support at 1080p (I tried finding it in the manual but they don't list the input refresh rates by resolution, weird omission).

It also probably doesn't do 3D given how LG has dropped the ball on that too. In short, this is a "do not buy" for me, no matter how "exciting" lasers are. TBH I'd rather a refresh of my old w1070 with a lamp with a better HDMI input port to accept 1080p at 120hz in 10-bit (DLPs have been able to do 10-bit natively for many years, even the old w1070). The main limitation is HDMI bandwidth not allowing 10-bit at 1080p60. You can get around that using the VGA or component inputs, since they are analog and therefore greater bit depth is effectively "free" (modulo signal-to-noise ratio losses for analog connections vs digital.)
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Re: LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby nuninho1980 » 04 Jan 2017, 05:02

thatoneguy wrote:
nuninho1980 wrote:this projector is similar to CRT monitor. :)

It is NOT
This is not a Scanning Laser Projector

This is a Laser DLP(that uses Laser as light-source) most likely
Thank you but :? :(
My PC specs:
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RAM: 2x8GB DDR3@2400MHz
MB: ASUS Z97-Pro Gamer
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ NEW!! :D
Opt. disc: LG BD-RE writer BH16NS40
HDDs: WD 1TB + 2TB ext-USB
PSU: NOX 1 kW
Monitor: CRT 19" Samsung SM 957MB :D
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Re: LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 22 Jan 2017, 14:12

Too bad it's not a scanning laser -- but it's still far more efficient an engine than LED engine. Modern diode lasers (especially modern blue laser diodes) have higher efficiency than LEDs, and are more focussable, so there's less light loss for a DLP chain.

Wish it was a scanning laser, but it is what it is -- still very good if it has black frame insertion modes. Or can be forced to enable 3D mode while displaying 2D graphics -- since 3D modes are usually high refresh rate (120Hz) and usually strobed with black frame insertion (ala LightBoost) to allow time for 3D shutter-glasses-shutter-switch-time. People have been using the "enable 3D for 2D" trick on DLP projectors to get the black frame insertion enabled to have LightBoost-like functionality on a DLP projector at a 120Hz refresh rate.

Hopefully this projector has the low-persistence black frame insertion mode; it's very efficient to modulate a laser and DLP chip to help reduce persistence on a DLP, although most DLP projector manufacturers only do this for 3D mode (thus needing the "use 3D mode for 2D" trick of low persistence).
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Re: LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby RLBURNSIDE » 22 Jan 2017, 16:13

There is no chance of low-persistence / BFI on projectors (unless you can do 120hz and BFI manually), as that would cut lumens in half which would make it way too dim, and 3D only in the European models since LG decided that 'Muricans hate to benefit from having stereo vision.

What sucks is that all the HDMI 2.0 4K projectors seem limited to 60hz even at 1080p, which is really, really sorry news for us projector gamers because 1080p / 120hz / HDR gaming would have been awesome.
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Re: LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 22 Jan 2017, 16:16

RLBURNSIDE wrote:There is no chance of low-persistence / BFI on projectors (unless you can do 120hz and BFI manually)

It's already being done in an undocumented way on cheap DLPs
The fact is that other DLP's do it already....
My question is simply for LG ProBeam: Can it do 1080p 120Hz?
Yes, brightness goes down, but only by roughly half (Approximately 4ms strobe length, 50%:50% BFI, 120Hz), depending on projector.

Existing Precedent for 120Hz BFI on cheap DLPs
I've been able to do it successfully.
http://www.blurbusters.com/gigantic-120 ... projector/
http://www.blurbusters.com/benq-w7000-d ... z-at-720p/
120Hz is common on many DLPs because of 3D mode.

Requirements for Undocumented Projector 120Hz 2D Support & Undocumented BFI
1. DLP projector supports frame-sequential 3D mode (not checkerboard, not side-by-side)
2. And it supports 120Hz in 3D mode (60fps:60fps frame sequential 3D), at least at 720p resolution.

Technique
1. Force 120Hz into the projector, using techniques similar to: True 120Hz from PC to TV
2. THEN enable 3D mode in the projector menus, while continuing to use 2D. (Don't wear the glasses)
This enables BFI, used for glasses shutter delay (LightBoost's raison d'etre) but they lower persistence even for 2D use.

Result
-- DLP projector is using BFI and 120Hz (in an undocumented way).
Caveat: Even for some 1080p projectors, this may only work during 720p mode. Newer projectors may be able to do 1080p@120Hz

It worked on the Optima GT720 and BENQ W7000 series DLP projectors, although only in 720p. Those a cheap sub-$1000 DLPs. Yes, it reduces brightness, but not unusably so. Resulting picture is still brighter than old 100-pound CRT projectors.
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Re: LG ProBeam: 1080p laser projector at 2000 lumen

Postby thatoneguy » 23 Jan 2017, 12:20

Image

If they would stack like 20-30 of these together somehow they could probably make a 1080p projector with some decent lumen output
The cost for one of these is like 400-500$ though so do the math

Speaking of which,
Chief did you ever get to test any of these Laser Scanning Projectors first-hand?
Because I would like to see your detailed impressions
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