BENQ XL2540 Having trouble with VT tweaks

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Re: BENQ XL2540 Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby b0t » 27 Mar 2017, 19:40

Chief Blur Buster wrote:If you're doing 240Hz with Blur Reduction OFF --and-- VSYNC OFF, then VT tricks won't necessarily help you.

If using 180Hz, you definitely want to try framerate-matching (180fps@180Hz) to get the most fluidity. Blur Reduction does look best with framerate-refreshrate matched motion.


I use Blur Reduction, already mentioned it before, I always did since my first 120hz monitor,

my question is about vt 1200 vs the default 1080 @ 240hz ...
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Re: BENQ XL2540 Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 27 Mar 2017, 19:50

Ohhh, if you have Blur Reduction ON, it's always more preferable on these BENQ monitors to have VT1200 where possible.
It won't do much though...

You will find that 180Hz strobed looks better than 240Hz strobed with tests such as http://www.testufo.com/photo
You will have less double-image strobe crosstalk (see Motion Blur Reduction FAQ for examples of strobe crosstalk)

On the other hand, if you don't mind very bad strobe crosstalk (double-image effect), 240Hz strobed does have less lag than 180Hz strobed.
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Re: BENQ XL2540 Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby b0t » 27 Mar 2017, 21:09

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Ohhh, if you have Blur Reduction ON, it's always more preferable on these BENQ monitors to have VT1200 where possible.
It won't do much though...

You will find that 180Hz strobed looks better than 240Hz strobed with tests such as http://www.testufo.com/photo
You will have less double-image strobe crosstalk (see Motion Blur Reduction FAQ for examples of strobe crosstalk)

On the other hand, if you don't mind very bad strobe crosstalk (double-image effect), 240Hz strobed does have less lag than 180Hz strobed.


Yeah I understood that already its just that anything between 144 and 240 doesnt seem to apply itself onto the games I play (Like CoD4 and CS:GO) while I do see the desired refresh rate displayed via desktop, so I gave up the 180Hz, and besides..
I did buy a 240Hz monitor didn't I? and it looks awesome in-game..

so the verdict is that VT1200 is better than default resolution@240hz yes??
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Re: BENQ XL2540 Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby Falkentyne » 27 Mar 2017, 21:38

240hz has the same issue as trying to use VT tweaks at 144hz on the older monitors. I do not have a 240hz monitor to verify, but I believe these refresh rates (144hz on older monitors, 240hz on these new ones) use a reduced blanking interval by default, so you are going to get a lot more crosstalk at 240hz than at lower refresh rates (like on an XL2720Z, 144hz vs 120hz; 144hz uses reduced vertical blanking). You can't even use VT tweaks at 144hz on the older monitors, as anything higher than 1104 or so will just black screen. You're lucky if you can use a VT tweak at 240hz, but you won't be able to go far past the default. So at 180hz, 144hz, 120hz or 100hz, you can use VT 1500+, or whatever the limit is, and get much lower crosstalk.

The Benq XL2735 is the same way, not surprising because the monitor uses the exact same scaler as the XL2540, although this is a 2560x1440 monitor up to 144hz. Here VT tweaks up to 1825 work at 100hz and 120hz, while at 144hz, you can't go much higher than 1200; 1250 is possible by lowering the horizontal total, but there is almost no crosstalk reduction, and going higher just black screens or doesn't work.

I don't have either of these monitors.
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Re: BENQ XL2540 Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby b0t » 27 Mar 2017, 21:50

Falkentyne wrote:240hz has the same issue as trying to use VT tweaks at 144hz on the older monitors. I do not have a 240hz monitor to verify, but I believe these refresh rates (144hz on older monitors, 240hz on these new ones) use a reduced blanking interval by default, so you are going to get a lot more crosstalk at 240hz than at lower refresh rates (like on an XL2720Z, 144hz vs 120hz; 144hz uses reduced vertical blanking). You can't even use VT tweaks at 144hz on the older monitors, as anything higher than 1104 or so will just black screen. You're lucky if you can use a VT tweak at 240hz, but you won't be able to go far past the default. So at 180hz, 144hz, 120hz or 100hz, you can use VT 1500+, or whatever the limit is, and get much lower crosstalk.

The Benq XL2735 is the same way, not surprising because the monitor uses the exact same scaler as the XL2540, although this is a 2560x1440 monitor up to 144hz. Here VT tweaks up to 1825 work at 100hz and 120hz, while at 144hz, you can't go much higher than 1200; 1250 is possible by lowering the horizontal total, but there is almost no crosstalk reduction, and going higher just black screens or doesn't work.

I don't have either of these monitors.


Ok so, you're saying that 1200 wont do much.. Im asking this bcuz I cant actually test myself.. I disabled aero the moment I installed my OS and to be honest I dont want to mess with it again..
Are there any drawbacks for using VT? (Even as low as 1200) ?
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Re: BENQ XL2540 Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby Falkentyne » 28 Mar 2017, 00:41

On some monitors, increasing the Vertical Total can cause inversion or scanline artifacts to occur. This is the same type of artifact some people see running 165hz monitors at 165hz instead of 120hz or 144hz, or 180hz monitors at 180hz. This can vary sample to sample and some samples won't show anything. You will have to decide whether the reduction in strobe crosstalk is worth any reduction in overall image quality.
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Re: Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby RealNC » 28 Mar 2017, 02:42

Chief Blur Buster wrote:-full -freq 180 -refresh 180 -high

Please don't use "-high".

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/librar ... 00(v=vs.85).aspx

Microsoft wrote:Use HIGH_PRIORITY_CLASS with care. If a thread runs at the highest priority level for extended periods, other threads in the system will not get processor time. If several threads are set at high priority at the same time, the threads lose their effectiveness. The high-priority class should be reserved for threads that must respond to time-critical events. If your application performs one task that requires the high-priority class while the rest of its tasks are normal priority, use SetPriorityClass to raise the priority class of the application temporarily; then reduce it after the time-critical task has been completed. Another strategy is to create a high-priority process that has all of its threads blocked most of the time, awakening threads only when critical tasks are needed. The important point is that a high-priority thread should execute for a brief time, and only when it has time-critical work to perform.
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Re: Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby b0t » 28 Mar 2017, 04:21

RealNC wrote:
Chief Blur Buster wrote:-full -freq 180 -refresh 180 -high

Please don't use "-high".

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/librar ... 00(v=vs.85).aspx

Microsoft wrote:Use HIGH_PRIORITY_CLASS with care. If a thread runs at the highest priority level for extended periods, other threads in the system will not get processor time. If several threads are set at high priority at the same time, the threads lose their effectiveness. The high-priority class should be reserved for threads that must respond to time-critical events. If your application performs one task that requires the high-priority class while the rest of its tasks are normal priority, use SetPriorityClass to raise the priority class of the application temporarily; then reduce it after the time-critical task has been completed. Another strategy is to create a high-priority process that has all of its threads blocked most of the time, awakening threads only when critical tasks are needed. The important point is that a high-priority thread should execute for a brief time, and only when it has time-critical work to perform.




So it actually limits performance? People have used -high since the beginning of CS..
And its ssuper important to get to the bottom of this because obviously CSGO is a game that "squeezes" the CPU a lot more than it should.. Very poor optimization on Valve's side

So RealNC, how exactly does -high affect *badly* on the game? I would like u to simplify it for me
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Re: Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby RealNC » 28 Mar 2017, 05:27

b0t wrote:So it actually limits performance? People have used -high since the beginning of CS..

It doesn't limit performance. What it does is give a process higher scheduling priority at the expense of processes that might actually need it.

And its ssuper important to get to the bottom of this because obviously CSGO is a game that "squeezes" the CPU a lot more than it should.. Very poor optimization on Valve's side

Actually the reverse is true. If a game doesn't "squeeze" the CPU, it's not well optimized. When game doesn't max out the CPU, it means that game could run faster (since more CPU is available) but doesn't. If you don't use a setting that limits the maximum speed of a game (like enabling vsync or using a frame limiter), a game should either max out the CPU or the GPU (whichever is the bottleneck for a given game.) CS:GO does not use advanced graphics, so it's the CPU that should be maxed out.

Also, compared to other games, CS:GO is pretty good at it. I don't know of many modern games where I can get 200+FPS on my i5 2500K. It could be better, since it doesn't max out all cores, but it's not actually bad.

However, what isn't well optimized in the game is real-time asset loading. It's not able to load-in new textures for example without freezing. This is not an issue in matchmaking, but it is an issue in causal modes, where people joining the server result in huge frame time spikes.

So RealNC, how exactly does -high affect *badly* on the game? I would like u to simplify it for me

Since this is a game, it uses a lot of CPU, and that means you can run into situations where you get micro-freezes because another system process that also has high priority and that needed to do its job gets starved of CPU time. The system processes that Windows schedules with high priority by default usually need to run when they should in order to keep the system responsive. If you make CS:GO compete with them, you can make things worse, not better.

The higher the CPU usage or a process is, the less of a good idea it is to give it permanent high priority.

If you benchmark it, removing "-high" will not result in less FPS. Removing "-high" might actually reduce micro-freezes.

If you have other stuff running in the background that hogs the CPU (like encoding a video in Sony Vegas or whatever), then instead of making CS:GO run at high priority you should actually make Sony Vegas run at low priority.
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Re: Having trouble with VT tweaks

Postby b0t » 28 Mar 2017, 05:49

RealNC wrote:
b0t wrote:So it actually limits performance? People have used -high since the beginning of CS..

It doesn't limit performance. What it does is give a process higher scheduling priority at the expense of processes that might actually need it.

And its ssuper important to get to the bottom of this because obviously CSGO is a game that "squeezes" the CPU a lot more than it should.. Very poor optimization on Valve's side

Actually the reverse is true. If a game doesn't "squeeze" the CPU, it's not well optimized. When game doesn't max out the CPU, it means that game could run faster (since more CPU is available) but doesn't. If you don't use a setting that limits the maximum speed of a game (like enabling vsync or using a frame limiter), a game should either max out the CPU or the GPU (whichever is the bottleneck for a given game.) CS:GO does not use advanced graphics, so it's the CPU that should be maxed out.

Also, compared to other games, CS:GO is pretty good at it. I don't know of many modern games where I can get 200+FPS on my i5 2500K. It could be better, since it doesn't max out all cores, but it's not actually bad.

However, what isn't well optimized in the game is real-time asset loading. It's not able to load-in new textures for example without freezing. This is not an issue in matchmaking, but it is an issue in causal modes, where people joining the server result in huge frame time spikes.

So RealNC, how exactly does -high affect *badly* on the game? I would like u to simplify it for me

Since this is a game, it uses a lot of CPU, and that means you can run into situations where you get micro-freezes because another system process that also has high priority and that needed to do its job gets starved of CPU time. The system processes that Windows schedules with high priority by default usually need to run when they should in order to keep the system responsive. If you make CS:GO compete with them, you can make things worse, not better.

The higher the CPU usage or a process is, the less of a good idea it is to give it permanent high priority.

If you benchmark it, removing "-high" will not result in less FPS. Removing "-high" might actually reduce micro-freezes.

If you have other stuff running in the background that hogs the CPU (like encoding a video in Sony Vegas or whatever), then instead of making CS:GO run at high priority you should actually make Sony Vegas run at low priority.


Im not one to leave a lot of windows and processes and applications open alongside with my game, only like a browser window/youtube/some windows music player & / OR Teamspeak .. that is it, so I dont know how much of an improvement Id see after removing -high , if any.. CPU is i7 4790K
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