My experience with the AOC G2460PG

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My experience with the AOC G2460PG

Postby CRTguy » 02 Apr 2017, 14:35

Hi,

I've been using a BENQ XL2420T since June 2012, and I absolutely love this monitor. I recently bought a ASUS ROG Swift PG258Q as an attempt at an upgrade, but I felt it was inferior to my XL2420T in every way except G-Sync and ULMB. The review for the PG258Q can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3287

I decided to try the AOC G2460PG because it has the same panel as the BENQ XL2420T, so I was hopeful it would have some similarities.

The good news is, I am impressed with the AOC G2460PG screen and will be keeping it. Here are the pros and cons:


Pros

- G-Sync behaves just like I experienced on the PG258Q with no difference. That is to say, it works fantastic for games with 90+ fps and makes the experience smoother than any technology I've seen. It is even smoother than a CRT in that there is no microstutter from dropping below the refresh rate (V-sync on equivalent) or tearing (V-Sync off equivalent), but of course it will never be as clear as a CRT for motion (still some faint blur no matter what).

- The colors are actually slightly better than the BenQ XL2420T, to my surprise. I have only had the monitor for two days so there's always room for more calibration, but I'd say the contrast is almost the same while the colors are a bit more vibrant and pronounced.

- The screen does not appear to have any vertical scan lines or any odd pixel behavior going on, no matter what tech you're using on the monitor (G-Sync, ULMB 120hz, regular 144hz). No faint interference in the background (my BenQ XL2420T has extremely faint horizontal lines that scroll up for the first 30 minutes or so of being turned on, but most people would never notice)

- The overdrive setting has 4 settings: Off, Weak, Medium, Strong. On Medium settings, the image is reasonably clear while moving (using both testufo.com ghosting test and many games testing), with almost no visible ghosting. On Strong you get some mild ghosting with a clearer image. It's worth nothing that you get significantly less ghosting on the AOC G2460PG than the BenQ XL2420T, but the BenQ XL2420T appears to make a slightly clearer image in motion (even at the BenQ 120hz vs AOC 144hz) despite the extra ghosting. In other words, from a practical in-game perspective, if you look at the words "SLOW" painted in yellow on a black street, and jerk the mouse around left and right while looking at the text, you'll see the SLOW letters clearer on the BenQ, but there's a brief dark black trail behind the words. On the AOC you get almost no trail behind the words, but they're slightly blurrier in motion. I actually prefer the BenQ in this case because I don't mind the ghosting - I just want to see what I'm focusing on more clearly. It's also worth noting that when you enable G-Sync, Overdrive settings are disabled on the AOC and appear to be controlled by G-Sync. These overdrive settings feel as though they are superior to the AOC's normal overdrive settings, and seem to leave a clearer image with no easily visible ghosting. I don't know enough about the tech to know if this is my imagination or reality, but this is how it appears to me in games (can't use G-Sync with ufotest.com, that I'm aware of).

- The AOC G2460PG is super responsive to coming out of sleep mode or switching resolutions or refresh rates. It takes about one second or less to go from sleep mode to displaying an image or switching resolutions/refresh. The BenQ XL2420T has a 4+ second wait time. I don't remember the exact time for the ASUS PG258Q, but it wasn't nearly as fast as the AOC or I would have noticed it. None of these monitors have any on-screen display popup that gets in your face when coming out of sleep or changing res (I hear some monitors do this and it can be annoying).

- Viewing angles are typical for TN, not great but pretty much the same as the BenQ XL2420T. I noticed that the ASUS PG258Q had a slightly different optimum viewing angle where raising the monitor a bit higher (looking more up at monitor) was the better angle for it.

- There's an ULMB button that isn't even a part of the menu, and when you click it, it turns on. No need to fish through any menu. I'll talk more about ULMB in the Cons section.

- One of the lowest cost monitors for smooth 144hz motion and G-Sync


Cons

- ULMB only works in 120hz and not 144hz, and there are no setting adjustments possible for ULMB like there were on the ASUS PG258Q that allow you to control the level of strobing. You just get a flat setting, and the setting makes the screen massively darker, with no real way to compensate. There is also visible flickering when using this mode (but the motion is definitely smoother). On the ASUS PG258Q this setting was amazingly good - you had full control of the strobe level (100 increments) and ULMB also worked at 144hz (not 240hz) with no flickering on the mild settings. The BenQ doesn't have a ULMB setting built into the monitor, but you can hack it. I never liked the BenQ hacked ULMB as it made weird distortions on the screen.

- Packaging for the monitor was very cheap - the styrofoam was crumbling everywhere when taking out the monitor. I had to be careful my cats wouldn't eat the little pieces and get them out of the area. The ASUS styrofoam was professional grade solid in comparison. The AOC monitor screen had some dust sprinkled over it, while the ASUS screen was spotless and smooth.

- The monitor stand is the least stable of the BenQ, ASUS, and AOC for comparison. If I start typing with a lot of speed and force on my keyboard, I can see the monitor jiggle slightly, whereas the BenQ only sometimes jiggles, and the ASUS was the most solid.

- The OSD buttons on the monitor are very annoying to work with, as they are on the bottom part of the monitor and you have to press up into the monitor to use them. They are very stiff, so you will always tilt up the monitor when using them with one hand. You need to press one hand on the top of the monitor to secure it from tilting, and then use the other hand to press up on the buttons. Ridiculous design. The OSD menu itself is not bad, but the button design is the worst.

- The power light is a bit too bright in the lower right of the screen. Not terrible but brighter than I'd like. The AOC logo on the bottom of the screen uses a shiny mirror surface, which reflects light into your eyes if you have any lights behind you that hit the logo at the right angle. I will probably have to tape over the logo. I thought the green line across the bottom of the screen would be a distraction, but I've never actually noticed it as a distraction when testing or playing a game. The real problem ended up being the AOC logo and power LED.


So yeah, in conclusion, the AOC G2460PG feels cheap in physical design, but the actual screen delivers. Hopefully the monitor doesn't fail unexpectedly, but it does have a three year warranty so we'll see how AOC handles that if I encounter a problem. There is a part of me that kind of feels sad because the XL2420T still has slightly better overdrive (for my eyes) when not using G-Sync, but everything else seems to be superior. I noticed that I felt more immersed in some games with the improved color - like seeing police lights flashing at night in GTA 5.

I'll update this thread if I uncover anything more that I like or dislike about the monitor. Feel free to ask any questions.
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Re: My experience with the AOC G2460PG

Postby RealNC » 02 Apr 2017, 16:44

CRTguy wrote:G-Sync behaves just like I experienced on the PG258Q with no difference. That is to say, it works fantastic for games with 90+ fps and makes the experience smoother than any technology I've seen.

Just want to point out that G-Sync also works well in low framerates. Sure, 90+FPS feels fantastic, but if you try something like 45FPS without G-Sync and then with, then it's clear that it improves things a lot with every frame rate. Sure, it's still 45FPS and thus blurry and not as responsive, but at least with G-Sync you eyes don't start bleeding!

It's also worth noting that when you enable G-Sync, Overdrive settings are disabled on the AOC and appear to be controlled by G-Sync. These overdrive settings feel as though they are superior to the AOC's normal overdrive settings, and seem to leave a clearer image with no easily visible ghosting. I don't know enough about the tech to know if this is my imagination or reality, but this is how it appears to me in games (can't use G-Sync with ufotest.com, that I'm aware of).

AFAIK, G-Sync monitors always use the overdrive from the G-Sync module, regardless of whether G-Sync is currently in use or not. So you're using NVidia's overdrive implementation in all cases. The only exception is if you connect something to the monitor with HDMI, which bypasses the G-Sync module and uses the monitor's own scaler. If the AOC doesn't have an HDMI input, then ignore what I just said.

Anyway, what changes between G-Sync on/off is that during VRR mode (G-Sync on), then the module switches to predictive, variable overdrive mode which can have slightly different characteristics compared to fixed refresh overdrive. It's strange however that the overdrive controls are completely disabled during G-Sync mode. I think most monitors still allow you to control the strength of the overdrive during VRR. Well, or they just don't bother graying out the setting and simply ignore it... I don't think anyone tested this yet :)

ULMB only works in 120hz and not 144hz

Have you tried 100Hz and 85Hz? Those are usually supported by most G-Sync monitors.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
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Re: My experience with the AOC G2460PG

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 02 Apr 2017, 20:58

RealNC wrote:Have you tried 100Hz and 85Hz? Those are usually supported by most G-Sync monitors.

CRTguy -- just so you know, ULMB works at 85Hz and 100Hz too on this monitor...

It's useful when you run into a game that can't quite do 120fps@120Hz, since ULMB works best with framerate-refreshrate matched motion which has the smoothest motion if you have framerate-refreshrate-locked motion. All impulse-driven displays have such good motion clarity that massively amplify visibility of microstutters -- including VR goggles & CRT displays -- Oculus/Vive uses impulse-driven rolling-scan OLEDs.

So ULMB 85Hz allows you to do 85fps@85Hz for your highly detailed games that benefits from Ultra Low Motion Blur but can't quite hit 120fps...

That said, there are certainly situations where GSYNC is visually preferable -- playing games that have highly variable frame rates.

RealNC wrote:Anyway, what changes between G-Sync on/off is that during VRR mode (G-Sync on), then the module switches to predictive, variable overdrive mode which can have slightly different characteristics compared to fixed refresh overdrive.

Yes, that's why overdrive is adjustable during GSYNC.

GSYNC uses variable overdrive that varies in strength depending on current refresh rate (frame rate). It's also why it (usually) looks better than FreeSync since many FreeSync monitors skip the variable overdrive... (There are exceptions to the rule, though!)
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Re: My experience with the AOC G2460PG

Postby CRTguy » 03 Apr 2017, 13:46

Sorry, I meant that ULMB "only" works up to 120hz and not 144hz, though I previously thought it would work at any single refresh below 120hz. Now I see that it is set to specific refresh rates like 85hz, 100hz and 120hz after investigating what you guys said.

Regarding G-Sync and overdrive, if having G-Sync defines what kind of overdrive you have on the monitor, does that mean all G-Sync monitors will generally have the same quality of overdrive?
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Re: My experience with the AOC G2460PG

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 03 Apr 2017, 14:04

CRTguy wrote:Regarding G-Sync and overdrive, if having G-Sync defines what kind of overdrive you have on the monitor, does that mean all G-Sync monitors will generally have the same quality of overdrive?

Not necessarily. From 2014 to date, G-SYNC overdrive have varied. There was one review that mentioned horrible overdrive problems on one G-SYNC monitor -- but that was a rare aberration. Generally, overdrive is very good on most G-SYNC monitors (relatively speaking...)

I'd boil it down to a variety:
-- Different manufacturer requirements
-- Different panel sizes and types (IPS, VA, TN, 24", 27", 32", 35")
-- Different panel runs/manufacturers
-- Different refresh rates (144Hz, 165Hz, 200Hz, 240Hz, etc)
-- Iterative improvements (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017)

I'm think the same overdrive logic was used on multiple screens (e.g. early VG248QE G-SYNC and BENQ XL2420G G-SYNC), and may continue to be. Overdrive requires very advanced calibration, sometimes non-linear for top-versus-bottom edge of screen (LightBoost and ULMB use row-addressed overdrive algorithms, to more aggressively push pixels near the bottom edge of the screen, due to shorter time of darkness before the strobe backlight flash).

And temperature also wrecks the correctness of overdrive, given LCDs respond more slowly in cold tempatures (ever forgotten your LCD smartphone or LCD wristwatch in a cold car in the middle of the winter...?), amplifying strobe crosstalk significantly even by mere temperature differences.
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Re: My experience with the AOC G2460PG

Postby RealNC » 03 Apr 2017, 14:15

CRTguy wrote:Regarding G-Sync and overdrive, if having G-Sync defines what kind of overdrive you have on the monitor, does that mean all G-Sync monitors will generally have the same quality of overdrive?

They should all generally have good overdrive, though not 100% identical (due to panel differences; the overdrive implementation needs to be adjusted for different panels, so slight variations will occur.) There are exceptions though, since the panel itself also plays a role (if the panel just isn't any good for that purpose, overdrive can't magically make it ghosting-free). If the panel isn't a complete donkey, then G-Sync's overdrive tends to be really, really good, both at fixed refresh modes as well as at variable refresh modes.

NVidia claims they tweak the overdrive themselves for the panel when manufacturers use their g-sync module so that they can guarantee at least some level of ghosting reduction, and that they don't allow monitors with non-suitable panels (avoiding the words "completely crappy panels" here) to use G-Sync. But I don't know if that's actually true. IIRC, Tom Petersen said that in an interview. If that's actually true, then a monitor having g-sync would directly translate into a good overdrive implementation.

But there's always exceptions to any rule. Could be panel manufacturing issues, production variance, or something else that could make some g-sync monitors worse than others.

Anyway, generally, I don't see many complains about ghosting from people with g-sync monitors, which suggests there's at least some amount of quality checking from NVidia going on there.
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