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OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby Vega » 19 Apr 2017, 23:36

Single strobe 60 Hz:

Image



Double strobe 60 Hz:

Image
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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby RealNC » 19 Apr 2017, 23:42

Amazing. This rivals a CRT any day of the week.

The 120Hz mode wouldn't bother me much, personally, I come from 60FPS@120Hz CRTs myself :mrgreen:

The only thing missing are scalines :lol: Speaking of which, how's upscaling on this? Does it have the same blur when using 1080p as LCDs do? I have no idea if OLED pixels have different layout or pitch compared to LCD.
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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 20 Apr 2017, 12:35

RealNC wrote:Amazing. This rivals a CRT any day of the week.

In many respects! But I'll need 1ms MPRT at sufficient brightness (CRT brightness even!) to make that declaration. 2ms is probably sufficient (LightBoost), but 1ms (without going dimmer than CRT) is truly needed.

That'll be an 83% light loss for a theoretical 120Hz OLED (1ms:7.3ms ON:OFF ratio of 1/120sec = 8.3ms refresh cycle), and a 75% light loss for a theoretical 240Hz (1ms:3.2ms ON:OFF ratio for 1/240sec = 4.2ms refresh cycle).

Vega wrote:Mark, just a small quibble with the news.

Thanks for the clarification, I've made a minor edits.
For example, "When this optional single-strobe mode is enabled".

P.S. Your photos can improve greatly if you (A) increase number of UFOs to make it easier to track and (B) enable the sync track as a manual assist. It doesn't need a rail, the Sync Track can still help you more easily manually aim the speed of your hand-waved camera. Could you enable TestUFO pursuit mode on Ghosting and then take a burst-shoot while waving your camera or smartphone horizontally across the screen? (holding it with both hands to steady). Works best if you use fixed focus, so the focus doesn't automatically hunt. Find the best photo, and then post it. Big kudos to you, if you could.

The name of the pursuit camera game (using our Blur Busters "sync track" invention, peer reviewed) is to make sure that the photo captures photos containing a fully-aligned temporal test pattern.

For example, bad pursuits (your hand wave was erratic):
Image

And better pursuits (your hand wave was more accurate):
Image

Don't worry about image skew, just try to wave your hand while taking burst photos (hold shutter down). Remember to enable fixed focus mode -- you can do that on iPhones by tap-and-hold on the focus point. Then begin pursuiting and hold shutter button down (to take a burst of photos). View the photos, find the best pursuit with the least distorted "ladder" (sync track). That's the signal that tells you took an accurate pursuit photo (when that horizontal ladder optical illusion looks complete, it signals you've took a correct WYSIWYG motion blur photo via pursuit camera method). The ladder might have gaps or bright spots, but don't worry about those -- just make sure at least 3 vertical-line-segments appear in the photo.

Shorter exposures are easier, so try adjusting exposure compensation down a bit -- I suggest a ~1/20sec camera exposure for 60Hz. Anything slower is extremely hard, and anything faster makes the sync track too gapped looking. The sync track is designed to be easiest with 3 or 4 refresh cycles, so use 1/40sec-1/30sec camera exposure for 120Hz, or 1/20sec-1/15sec camera exposure for 60Hz. But 2 refresh cycles are acceptable for hand pursuits at 60Hz, so if you're having difficulty, 1/30sec exposure for 60Hz is fine. Usually, yes, a camera rail is used -- display reviewers usually need a rail for pursuit camera -- but the Sync Track is still useful for hand-waved smartphone photos, too. Heck, even videoing works too as a pursuit camera (use a frame stepping player, and then save clearest freezeframe as the pursuit photo).

Could you do me a HUGE favour, go to TestUFO pursuit mode on Ghosting (with the "sync track" ladder temporal test pattern) and then take some pics again while waving your camera (with both hands holding it; steadier) along the direction of motion?
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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby thatoneguy » 20 Apr 2017, 14:50

Vega wrote:Double strobe 60 Hz

God, is the double image effect that bad? Or is it just in this test?
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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby Haste » 20 Apr 2017, 15:00

Only the moving UFO should have the double image effect, not the rest of the image.

You should get a much better idea once Vega has time to make a clearer photo.
Last edited by Haste on 20 Apr 2017, 16:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby Glide » 20 Apr 2017, 15:05

Haste wrote:Only the moving UFO should have the double image effect, not the rest for the image.
You should get a much better idea once Vega has time to make a clearer photo.
The whole screen is affected by a double-strobe, not just the moving object.
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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby RealNC » 20 Apr 2017, 15:06

thatoneguy wrote:
Vega wrote:Double strobe 60 Hz

God, is the double image effect that bad? Or is it just in this test?

It should be the same as a CRT or a strobing LCD. If you have a ULMB or LightBoost (or any other kind of strobing) monitor and look at the 60FPS UFO while running 120Hz with strobing active, it should look exactly the same.

The double image effect is not specific to LCD or OLED or CRT. It looks about the same everywhere.
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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby RealNC » 20 Apr 2017, 15:09

Glide wrote:The whole screen is affected by a double-strobe, not just the moving object.

But only moving objects show up double. It's the reason why viewing a static photograph at 5FPS is perfectly smooth with no stutter :mrgreen:
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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 20 Apr 2017, 15:16

RealNC wrote:The double image effect is not specific to LCD or OLED or CRT. It looks about the same everywhere.

Yep. Applies to any flicker-display of any technology, today or yesterday -- strobed, scanned, CRT, flashed, imulsed, etc.

Regardless of the framerate and refreshrate -- if you flash the exact same image twice for any reason (multiple causes: Whether running framerate at half refresh rate -- or when monitor hardware is double-strobing a refresh) -- it all comes out the same at the end of the day as a double-image effect during motion. e.g. CRT 30fps@60Hz, LightBoost 60fps@120Hz, ULMB 60fps@120Hz, or a double-strobed strobe backlight (e.g. BENQ at 60Hz, or this OLED at 60Hz).

thatoneguy wrote:
Vega wrote:Double strobe 60 Hz

God, is the double image effect that bad? Or is it just in this test?

Double-image effect is when you've got two impulsed refresh cycles during motion.
You see it during all motion, but mostly when framerates are synchronized to refresh rates.

CRT 30fps@60Hz double image effect is the same thing -- long seen on yesterday's consoles since the 1980s and 1990s.

During scrolling platform games, you suddenly got the double-edge effect everytime the framerate suddenly slowed down from 60fps down to 30fps -- that's the double-strobe effect. It's been long seen ever since the dawn of video gaming.

60fps@120Hz impulsed (e.g. LightBoost 60fps@120Hz) looks the same as 60fps double-strobed (60fps@120 strobes/sec), with the same kind of double-image effect seen during framerate-refreshrate locked motion.

Not everyone is bothered by it. 60fps@60Hz flicker bothers some people a lot more than 60fps double-strobed (60fps@120 strobes) since 120Hz flicker is far less, despite the addition of the double-image-effect-during-smooth-motion.

What would be even better is single-strobe at higher refresh rate (e.g. 120Hz), so we can have our cake and eat it too.

P.S. Double image effect even still remains at 120fps@240 strobes/sec too -- although the edge-separating is only 1/4th the distance of 30fps@60Hz for a given panning motionspeed.

---

Regardless -- it is wonderful that DELL gives you a choice whether you want to single-strobe or double-strobe, as a flicker versus doubleimage-effect tradeoff choice. Let's at least acknowledge that.
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Re: OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q

Postby RealNC » 20 Apr 2017, 15:31

Though I suspect Dell's reason for doing strobing to begin with was to counter OLED burn-in. Yes, I was always a cynic...

In any event, this is now the 60Hz monitor that sets the bar for everyone else.
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