Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby Haste » 18 Apr 2017, 09:54

I would play without ULMB, and make use of the full refresh rate.

Reason are:

- ULMB only improve clarity on objects that you are actively precisely tracking and focusing on by using a particular eyes movement called smooth pursuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smooth_pursuit

- 240fps already improves the above significantly compared to 144fps (image persistence goes from ~6.9 ms to ~4.1 ms)

- 240fps will bring more clarity to the majority of motions you experience on the monitor (motions that are relative to the stare) by reducing the amplitude of stroboscopic steps (phantom array effect)

Image

phpBB [video]


- ULMB adds by itself a small amount of input lag.

- ULMB requires vsync to look smooth. Vsync adds a considerable amount of input lag.

- ULMB prevents the use of Gsync.
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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby Falkentyne » 18 Apr 2017, 10:14

Gsync and ULMB can be used at the same time now. The oldest Gsync monitors seem to just black screen, but any with new enough gsync modules seem to work with it.
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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby RealNC » 18 Apr 2017, 11:19

Falkentyne wrote:Gsync and ULMB can be used at the same time now. The oldest Gsync monitors seem to just black screen, but any with new enough gsync modules seem to work with it.

There's no info on how to do that. Just for one by using 3D vision glasses or something.
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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby Falkentyne » 18 Apr 2017, 12:11

Masterotaku updated information on how to use it without 3d glasses. You have to find the post. I don't feel like bugging him on steam right now. I remember him saying something like adding +5 to the vertical total or something...
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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby avrion » 18 Apr 2017, 12:28

I'm pretty sure you don't need to use Vsync for ULMB, you just need to make sure your fps matches your monitor hz.
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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby RealNC » 18 Apr 2017, 13:26

avrion wrote:I'm pretty sure you don't need to use Vsync for ULMB, you just need to make sure your fps matches your monitor hz.

That's true. It's just that tearing is especially annoying when the frame rate matches the refresh rate. When FPS is a bit higher or a bit lower, tearing is tolerable. When FPS is almost exactly the same as refresh, the tearline is walking very slowly upwards or downwards on the screen, which really makes it stand out. It's a line on the screen that's "in your face".
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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby gbmaster » 21 Apr 2017, 04:43

get the asus 240hz, I bought it just to play Quake
expensive but worth it, 144hz feels absolutely horrible now
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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 21 Apr 2017, 10:54

RealNC wrote:
Falkentyne wrote:Gsync and ULMB can be used at the same time now. The oldest Gsync monitors seem to just black screen, but any with new enough gsync modules seem to work with it.

There's no info on how to do that. Just for one by using 3D vision glasses or something.

Good news, no 3D glasses needed anymore. New instructions found!
There's been discovery of multiple monitors secretly capable of ULMB+GSYNC.
Works well on some displays.
With a HUGE caveat, though.

TL;DR: Being an "early hidden beta" unrefined strobed variable refresh rate with a tight usable range (new NVIDIA patent not yet fuolly used, overdrive not optimized yet (creating bad strobe crosstalk at lower Hz), strobe phase not optimized, too much flicker at lower end, and slams against the 120Hz limit) it probably is only useful for games that "usually runs near 120fps, but you don't want stutters in the occasionl drops to 85fps-100fps range" situations. A single stutter (ULMB only) is a lot more noticeable than a brief drop to 119fps-118fps (ULMB+GSYNC), so you simply use ULMBZ+GSYNC for your "ULMB" situations (high-consistent framerates) rather than your "GSYNC" situations (low & hugely varying framerates). Used properly, some are saying ULMB+GSYNC looks good -- at least on certain monitors where you're playing max framerate 90% (e.g. 115fps cap) of the time but stutterfreely slows down to no slower than ~85-110fps 10% of the time, games that modulate framerates smoothly, and if you've optimized to avoid sudden stutters (HDD access, choosing a specific game with consistent frametimes, etc). It is a niche feature, like a complicated sword, a tool to be successfully wielded only by the few who know how to use it properly to minimize drawbacks. Looks amazing when used properly, looks terrible when not used properly (And alas more than 50% of games is unable to successfully weild this sword due to game engine framerate-stability limitations). This feature will only improve as the feature is refined and usable strobed VRR range becomes far more proper & useful (e.g. "75fps-240fps" strobed rolling scan VRR OLEDs of the future)
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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 21 Apr 2017, 11:02

avrion wrote:I'm pretty sure you don't need to use Vsync for ULMB, you just need to make sure your fps matches your monitor hz.

It depends on your goals. And depends on the game. Framerate capping is a compromise.

However, there's some ultralow-lag "VSYNC ON" tricks that can match the lag of a frame cap -- basically a VSYNC-aware framerate cap that steers the tearline offscreen. Very few implementations successfully do that, but one common technique is combining VSYNC ON + framerate cap simultaneously (with a very strategic "off-by-a-tiny") to have the lowest-lag-possible VSYNC ON in certain games.

This gives you the lowest-possible-lag VSYNC ON that has no more lag than a simple "VSYNC OFF + framerate cap" situation. This situation allows you to (mostly) have your cake and eat it too. Mathematically, only way to get less lag than this very carefully optimized near-lagless "VSYNC ON" is to need to use VSYNC OFF at more than double framerate. (e.g. VSYNC OFF + >500fps) -- yes, several of us did the math, and several forum members confirmed, and when achieving the best near-lagless "VSYNC ON" circumstances and comparing it against VSYNC OFF: You need to exceed double framerate during VSYNC OFF just to have less lag than the best-possible near-lagless VSYNC ON. (Sure, game engine behaviours is another issue -- some don't behave very well lag-wise with framerate caps).

This year, we will be writing a BlurBusters article on "Ultra-Low-Lag VSYNC ON" HOWTOs" for those casual gamers who don't mind 2-3ms extra lag to eliminate all tearing. Sure, the top pros need not apply (understandably so, I understand why VSYNC OFF has low lag, and yes milliseconds DO matter up there in the pro leagues), but so many casual gamers sometimes put up with VSYNC OFF during solo gaming when they don't need to.

This will only apply to a few well-behaved games, but this information definitely needs to be more widespread.

Very few people know the complex configuring needed to achieve lag-minimization during VSYNC ON, and it's easier to just parrot "VSYNC OFF has less lag" (rightfully so for eSports competition gamers, but many casual gamers use VSYNC OFF like putting a spoiler on a Honda Civic or an "R-Type sticker" on a Volkswagen Bug -- not knowing that there are tricks to have a ultralow-lag VSYNC ON. It's almost like just properly inflating the tires (even most drivers are lazy/forgetful doing this) that has a surprising improvement to the car's performance.

Likewise, there are near-lagless "VSYNC ON" lag-reducing tricks many people don't even know about!

RealNC wrote:
avrion wrote:I'm pretty sure you don't need to use Vsync for ULMB, you just need to make sure your fps matches your monitor hz.

That's true. It's just that tearing is especially annoying when the frame rate matches the refresh rate. When FPS is a bit higher or a bit lower, tearing is tolerable. When FPS is almost exactly the same as refresh, the tearline is walking very slowly upwards or downwards on the screen, which really makes it stand out. It's a line on the screen that's "in your face".

Yep -- the more stable the framerate cap, the more annoying that 'stationary-tearline-effect' of framerate caps becomes (Especially when that tearline lingers stationary in the middle of your crosshairs!)

gbmaster wrote:get the asus 240hz, I bought it just to play Quake
expensive but worth it, 144hz feels absolutely horrible now

Like! :)
Now we need 240Hz OLEDs.
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Re: Best monitor for fast-paced FPS games?

Postby hammelgammler » 21 Apr 2017, 15:48

I would really like to know the secret to get ultra low V-Sync input lag! I have like a 0.1% MIN FPS of ~100-110 in Overwatch, and would love to use ULMB with no tearing and great smoothness. I don't mind a little bit of Input Lag because of V-Sync, Fast Sync was alright for me (120Hz @ 240FPS), which has quite a bit of Input Lag.

Battlenonsense (YouTube) made a great video about Fast Sync, and it had about like 9ms more lag then V-Sync off @300FPS (Overwatch). But I'm sure it was true V-Sync without any cap under refreshrate. I used a 2 FPS lower cap then refreshrate for ages with my QNIX, and in most of the games it never was a problem for me, I just needed to get more or equal FPS of my refreshrate. 10 FPS less then refreshrate and it already felt awful.


I thought that when using like 0.5 FPS below Hz, say 120Hz @ 119.5FPS, then it's smoother but has more Lag then 120 @ 118FPS?
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