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I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

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I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby lexlazootin » 26 Jul 2017, 06:56

Thank you BlurBusters for the prize money from the monitor list contest, every dollar went to this amazing monitor :D

Right off the bat the contrast on his panel is defiantly not the best and only best when view straight on with any slight variant up or down pretty much destroying any sort of colour accuracy this panel has, being in a dark scene in a game defiantly shows off the flaws of the panel as every gradient of dark grey will be very distinct. Same goes with colour, any colour at the bottom of the panel will washed out and any at the top will be saturated due to angle at which you view it at. I found that the Gamma at 2.5 actually fixes the dark scene issue.

images like this, look like this:
Image

The Inversion Patterns test also brought up a weird artifact that also happened on my ZizWorks 240hz where the rest of the screen would have a weird faint interlaced patern on it. But the test itelf has no inversion artifacts which is pretty impressive i guess.

Although the pixel inversion test at testufo.com/#test=inversion looks normal with no artifacts i believe this is what i am seeing at lower refreshrates as i can notice a faint vertical interlacing when g-sync gets below 60fps, it is noticeable at higher just in very specific locations

The Over Drive is pretty sweet. It looks about the same as the XL2420G in 144hz mode but when you crank it up to 240hz the overdrive becomes more apparent, it's not like it smears more it's just more noticeable behind the alien. i'm not sure if this is due to persistence being lower so the overdrive looks cleaner? lol. But in game it's not noticeably at all just like the XL2420G even in scene where it can be really bad like the bright blue sky of Dust2 agents the yellow building in CS:S.

This is the picture i took on my XL2420G best case scenario, it's pretty much like this with the Acer:
Image

The OSD and feature are defiantly cool, it has everything. Saturation, Black reduction, Shitty crosshairs that are too big, 6-axis colour control, like everything. This was one of the main points that had me wondering if i should go with the little bit more expensive Asus 240hz because it might of had more features but this OSD pretty much has everything which is great.

Btw the colours are good, none of this Benq "We're going to have shitty colours out of the box" bs.

Over all i'm very happy with it, i can't wait to do some runs or play some CS with it, i'm going to do reply to this thread with updates on the overclocking and whatnot when i do it. This wasn't supposed to be a review, just more of a "What does someone who really cares about monitors think of this" sort of thing.
Last edited by lexlazootin on 30 Jul 2017, 00:44, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 26 Jul 2017, 11:08

Glad you're enjoying this new monitor!

To other readers: Be noted, the prize was originally a gaming monitor during this earlier giveaway. However, shipping estimates cost CAD$300 between Canada and Australia -- darn near the same value as monitor -- so I offered to send monitor value (paypal) instead of the monitor that lexlazootin won in the last Blur Busters Monitor Giveway Contest. This ended up being a better deal, as lexazootin got a sweeter monitor instead!

We'll have another Monitor Giveaway before the end of the year. Keep tuned!
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Re: I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby lexlazootin » 26 Jul 2017, 11:38

ULMB this time around is very bright! i would not have a issue gaming at 144hz with ULMB on, it's very nice!

I had a play around with the timing.

VT looks unlocked
HT looks locked to 2000+ (Maybe? Sometimes not)
PC limit at HT 2000 (240hz) = 550 - 560
PC limit at HT 2080 (200hz) = 470 - 480
PC limit at HT 2080 (144hz) = 340 - 350
PC limit at HT 2080 (120hz) = 280 - 290
PC limit at HT 2080 (100hz) = 230 - 240
PC limit at HT 2200 (60hz) = 145 - 155

With the VT unlocked we can actually do the Vertical Timing tweak we do on Benq monitors, i was able to get 1400vt on 120hz and 1680vt on 100hz!

ULMB works upto 155hz with VT1085

Sadly i currently having issuing going higher then 242hz without frame skipping but i'll keep trying.
Last edited by lexlazootin on 26 Jul 2017, 23:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 26 Jul 2017, 15:44

[Edited]

Fantastic, getting 155Hz ULMB via the Vertical Total trick! That's undocumented behavior.

And OMG, you got VT2000 during 240Hz?

Or did you miswrite HT2000 as VT2000?

Are you using NVIDIA CRU or ToastyX CRU? (Latter is more trustworthy for VT tweaks -- Sometimes GPU scaling will filter large VTs)

Do not use large Horizontal Totals, they're useless. Reducing is always favourable, even when using Large Vertical Totals -- you can get bigger VT's when you reduce HT's. Smaller HT allows higher Hz at lower dotclocks, which is why you achieved 155Hz ULMB.

Horizontal Total is always higher than horizontal resolution (1920) so you might uselessly get larger HT's such as HT2500, but they have no benefit at all, zilch. However, Large Vertical Totals (huge VBI -- Vertical Blanking Internvals) have lots of benefits on certain monitors, such as reduced input lag side effects or improved strobe backlights (http://www.blurbusters.com/crosstalk) -- but it appears you've unlocked higher ULMB rates.

Usually, ULMB uses its own internal automated (scan-converted) "vertical total" equivalent, like LightBoost does (internally buffer-and-then-accelerated-scanout) so it doesn't need Vertical Total tweaking for strobe crosstalk like BENQ monitors need. But, there are other side effects like higher/lower ULMB refresh rates.

Strobe phase during ULMB might even be partially adjustable (in a tight range equal to the time period of VBI -- and the larger VBI, the bigger the adjustable range is) -- by tricking it by adjusting Front Porch versus Back Porch (I'll need to test this theory).

Also, careful Large VT tweaks may reduce ULMB input lag (if you can combine Large Vertical Totals with high-Hz ULMB simultaneously), by accelerating frame-delivery between computer and monitor -- faster scanout into the monitor's framebuffer if it's pre-buffering in ULMB mode. (This might require CRU timings assymetry -- using ultra-small Back Porch and ultra-large Front Porch -- in ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility -- to eliminate VT-related delays at the beginning of refresh cycles). Digitally, Back Porch is like hidden "virtual resolution" above the top edge of the screen (formerly a guard delay to allow CRT gun to get ready to begin scanning). And Front Porch is hidden virtual resolution below bottom edge of screen.

So it would surmise, to have lower-input-lag Large Vertical Totals, you want to pad below bottom edge of scdreen, not above top edge of screen, for top-to-bottom scanout systems. Top-to-bottom is how pixels are 'transmitted' over monitor cables.

We plan to do input lag tests of VT tweaks on ULMB, to see how much VT tweaks can reduce strobed input lag.

TL;DR: Potential Benefits of Vertical Total Tweaks
- Potentially reduced input lag (for VSYNC ON or for strobed)
- Potentially unlocks certain weird behaviors like higher ULMB limits (e.g. 155Hz ULMB on Acer XB272Q)
- Reduced strobe crosstalk (on BenQ/Zowie, not on ULMB), confirmed with tests with http://www.blurbusters.com/crosstalk


Note: VT tweaks to modify input lag only affects global delivery lag (e.g. VSYNC ON or global-strobe flash). VT tweaks DO NOT reduce non-strobed VSYNC OFF input lag. Using Large Vertical Totals to reduce display input lag, only reduces theoretical minimum achievable input lag for synchronized/global frame delivery/visibility -- e.g. VSYNC ON _or_ strobed modes. This may NOT work on your monitor, though!
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Re: I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby lexlazootin » 27 Jul 2017, 04:14

Yea, i got HT, VT mixed up. I fixed it in the post.

It looks like to have ULMB enabled it needs to be 2080HT and PC between (340 - 350) for example, i will have to play with it but if this is true it should be VERY easy to use ULMB at 60hz. (I'm not sure if 60hz ULMB is a standard feature, i haven't checked yet)

The Back Porch, Front Porch is a neat idea, i'll have to try it.

On my XL2420G there was 'issue' where if you were using a refreshrate below 55~ (G-Sync) i think the double frame would kick in and the dithering would stop working and you would see a static dither. I think a similar effect happens on the Acer but with 'Vertical Interlaced Scan Lines'. It's a very dim but noticeable if looking for it.

Also before i bought this monitor i thought that maybe 240hz was enough refresh to not notice tear lines or stuttering because of how often the screen is refreshed with one without a tear in that spot and that G-Sync at those higher refresh might not even be needed but that theory was completely wrong.

Running 240hz at 250fps the tear lines are still noticeable and judder is still present.
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Re: I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 27 Jul 2017, 09:45

lexlazootin wrote:Also before i bought this monitor i thought that maybe 240hz was enough refresh to not notice tear lines or stuttering because of how often the screen is refreshed with one without a tear in that spot and that G-Sync at those higher refresh might not even be needed but that theory was completely wrong.

If I look very carefully, tearlines are still visible at 1000fps at 240Hz, but you need ultra-high-contrast edges (e.g. Borderlands type scenery) and a careful eye.

That said, VSYNC OFF at 240Hz is indeed a lot better than VSYNC OFF at 144Hz.

Harmonic microstutters are still visible at 240Hz, especially at nearby framerates (e.g. 242fps at 240Hz will show 2 microstutters per second).

Also, at 240Hz, tracking accuracy of a 1000Hz mouse actually becomes even more important. I've never seen this much microstutter in a 1000Hz mouse before, it's worse than what I see in this image from the Blur Busters Mouse Guide

Image

The strange thing is that the harmonic between 240Hz and 1000Hz would be 1 beat-jump of cursor every 12 refresh cycles that are potentially tinier than the above. In some game tests, actually seeing fully skipped positions of vertical edges during flick-turns where phantom array effect (during fixed-gaze while I stare through my FPS flick-turn) is like |||.||||.|||||.|||.|||| instead of |||||||||||||||||. So this might be coming from a different cause such as sensor imperfections or imperfect mouse surface. This is something I'll figure out -- how to smooth the mouse even further. Mouse sensor inaccuracies become that much more visible at 240Hz. I'm going to test multiple mice and see if other 1000Hz sensors have less microstutter on a wider variety of surfaces.
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Re: I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby Haste » 27 Jul 2017, 14:07

Monitor: Asus ROG Swift PG279Q
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Re: I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby open » 27 Jul 2017, 16:34

Overdrive sometimes makes the colors overshoot their adjustment. Tft central does a pretty good breakdown of the effect in their response measurements. Its nice to have the option of extreme because it does increase response time of movements even if the colors are wrong for a sec. In fact having the overshoot kinda feels like an advantage highlighting movement. Feels like a semi-cheat mode for fps.
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Re: I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby masterotaku » 28 Jul 2017, 03:20

What about G-Sync+ULMB? Can you do it at more than 120Hz?

Reminder: the trick consists of creating a custom resolution with +5VT than the default value, or doing that for your default resolutions with CRU (so it then works with DSR too). Then when using G-Sync the monitor will tell you that you are in ULMB mode, but it will strobe with variable refresh rate.
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Re: I got my new Acer Predator XB272 G-Sync in today!

Postby lexlazootin » 28 Jul 2017, 06:06

@open I'm not sure how much i would really want to use a extreme setting, i feel like the most accurate OD possible would be best as any benefit cranking up the response time would be diminished by the reverse ghosting anyways.

G-Sync + ULMB (Lightboost?) does in fact work at 144hz! or even 145hz if you overclock it a little :P

Yep, all i had to do was create a res with +5VT and it pretty much worked. It's also neat that the OSD Refreshrate indicator actually updates in real time, so it will display the refreshrate at which G-Sync and ULMB is running at.

ULMB (Single Strobe) also works at 60hz, all you need to do is use the 100hz timings and simply boost the VT to 1900 and set the Hz to 60.
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