PG258Q Pixel Inversion

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: PG258Q Pixel Inversion

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 31 Jul 2017, 16:27

Akaranir wrote:So are only the Gsync monitors that have pixel inversion/vertical lines ?

If i take a monitor like the XL2540 am i sure that there will not be this problem ?
Because on games at 60/144 hz it's horrible.

And last question why does Gsync consume as much resources ? When i activate gsync i easily lose 60/80 fps ...
Non-GSYNC displays can still have inversion artifacts.

It's more brand dependant, panel dependant, and sometimes panel lottery dependant.

If you hate inversion artifacts, get either an IPS GSYNC monitor or IPS non-GSYNC monitor (Official List of Best Gaming Monitors), I rarely ever see inversion artifacts on IPS panel technology. That said, not all TN panels are prone to very visible inversion artifacts.
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Akaranir
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Re: PG258Q Pixel Inversion

Post by Akaranir » 01 Aug 2017, 12:02

Hello,

I have re-tested.
The vertical lines are always present but the lower the frequency is the more the gsync accentuates the effect.

Gsync + 60 hz = horrible vertical lines
No gsync + 60 hz = large tears and weak vertical lines
Gsync + 240 hz = weak vertical lines
No gsync + 240 hz = small tears and weak vertical lines

The lines appear visually stronger during a horizontal movement at a certain speed.
So is this the way gsync screens are created to create this visual effect ?

The eyes has to be there for something because if i put a game at 60 hz and i do not move, everything is fine but if i approach the screen or i retreat the effect appears even as i does not move in game.

Is this problem really pixel inversion ? And if this is not the case then what is it ?
Do you have examples of non-gsync screens that have this problem ?

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Re: PG258Q Pixel Inversion

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Aug 2017, 14:29

Akaranir wrote:Gsync + 60 hz = horrible vertical lines
No gsync + 60 hz = large tears and weak vertical lines
Interesting.

Did you do 60Hz GSYNC, or did you use 60fps-framecapped 144Hz GSYNC?

Both creates different visibilities of inversion artifacts due to different scan-out velocities (refresh cycles are always scanned-out at the maximum GSYNC refresh rate, with varying pauses in between scanouts).

60fps @ 60Hz GSYNC = usually different inversion artifacts than 60fps @ 144Hz GSYNC (via frame-capping).
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Re: PG258Q Pixel Inversion

Post by lexlazootin » 02 Aug 2017, 05:56

I notice the Vertical Inversion on both 60hz non-gsync and 240hz 60fps pretty equally. But maybe i'm wrong. It's only noticeable situational.

One of the best cases for noticing the 'interlacing' for me is when i see a green plane and i move my headback and forth. I use the Half-Life green console as a test.

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Re: PG258Q Pixel Inversion

Post by Akaranir » 03 Aug 2017, 16:42

Well, i'll change my screen ...
Vertical lines are too visible.

Do you have a screen idea without this vertical line problem ?
Because i see everywhere this kind of problem for all monitors 240hz/Gsync and even some 144hz.

I just want a good screen without vertical line to play all types of games :(
Help ! :)

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Re: PG258Q Pixel Inversion

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 03 Aug 2017, 16:51

Akaranir wrote:Well, i'll change my screen ...
Vertical lines are too visible.

Do you have a screen idea without this vertical line problem ?
Because i see everywhere this kind of problem for all monitors 240hz/Gsync and even some 144hz.

I just want a good screen without vertical line to play all types of games :(
Help ! :)
Generally, they are very faint or invisible on high-Hz IPS monitors. If you are very sensitive to inversion artifacts, IPS has generally been the way to go (usually).

Have you tried any model of 165 Hz IPS monitors from our Official List of Best Gaming Monitors?

Models of 2560x1440 IPS G-SYNC monitors of up to 165 Hz
- ASUS PG279Q on Amazon
- Acer Predator XB271HU on Amazon
- AOC AG271QG on Amazon
- Viewsonic XG2703-GS on Amazon

IPS also has great colors and viewing angles, though some people get annoyed by IPS glow issues, and the extra motion blur from slower pixel response (relative to TN) -- 165 Hz on TN has noticeably less motion blur than 165 Hz on IPS. However, give-or-take, 144 Hz-165 Hz on IPS will still look better than ~120 Hz on TN. TN panels are more prone to inversion visibility issues -- fast pixel response also makes inversion imperfections more visible.

If you want to keep resolutions low (1080p) for eSports purposes (1000fps+ CS:GO) -- that can be tough because there aren't any currently low-resolution high-Hz IPS panels -- so that's a catch 22 if you are wanting to stick to TN if you like strobe backlights or ultra-high refresh rates / frame rates.

Fortunately, since you're playing the games that run at very low frame rates (far less than 100 fps) -- IPS GtG limitations is not an issue here, and it will help you reduce visibility of inversion artifacts.

If you want a TN panel with less visibility of inversion artifacts -- it's somewhat hit-and-miss; visibility of inversion imperfections (inversion artifacts) vary a huge deal across brands/panels/manufacturers and even between factory runs (panel lottery).
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Re: PG258Q Pixel Inversion

Post by Akaranir » 04 Aug 2017, 06:59

Thank you for all those informations !

It's complicated to choose because the GSync at 240 hz is incredible but the screens have vertical lines problems like the PG258Q here :

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/20 ... n-pc-1.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/20 ... n-pc-2.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/20 ... n-pc-3.jpg
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/20 ... n-pc-4.jpg

These lines appear with the UFO Test (Moving Photo) only in 120 and 240 pixels/Sec and not on the others.

Concerning the IPS, it is very interesting but i also see that there are problems at this level :

https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions ... cal-lines/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comme ... _vertical/

And for games, between the CSGO/Rainbow Six Siège, 240 hz is incredible and Dark Souls/Wolfenstein limited to 60 hz ...

I need a TNIPS screen :)

Sometimes i regret my 60 hz screen without these problems.
Just tell me if it's normal in 2017 to have this kind of artefacts.

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Re: PG258Q Pixel Inversion

Post by RealNC » 04 Aug 2017, 10:55

I don't think it's normal. None of my monitors has the issue :-P (A very old 60Hz TN from the stone age, an old 75Hz TN from 10 years ago, a modern 144Hz TN, and a modern 165Hz IPS.)

Maybe it's panel lottery and I was just lucky, but there's no lines (vertical or horizontal) anywhere to be seen.
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Re: PG258Q Pixel Inversion

Post by nanashi31 » 22 Dec 2018, 12:06

I have also tested 3 25 inch 240 hz monitors . One from Acer, one from Asus and one from Dell. They all had the same vertical lines showing up when movement was on screen and it got more obvious the lower the hz. I suspect all they all share the same AOU manufactured panel. now have a 240 hz ,27 inch LG 27GK750F-B wich has no vertical lines at all and is crisp clear on Playstation 4.

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