NeonPizza wrote: ↑13 Aug 2023, 14:41
I will never use the words motion resolution ever again.
lol Again, thanks for the wealth of knowledge as always. I'm in over my head. It's like an entirely differently language to me hehe.
"Motion resolution" is fine, but it has to be "motion resolution in milliseconds" or "motion resolution in pixels of blur per 1000 pixels/sec" or similar.
This will be resolution and refresh rate independent, unlike "motion resolution in (analog television style) lines" format.
NeonPizza wrote: ↑13 Aug 2023, 14:41
For 24fps @1080p (when watching movies for example) with Retrotink4k, will the double strobe BFI create more flicker than the already existing noticeable flicker(On whites at least) that's present on my LG C1 OLED when using MotionPro HIGH? To get a 4ms persistence for 24fps content would be excellent obviously, but at the cost of even more flicker? I don't think I could manage.
Have you ever been to a 35mm movie theater? They used double-strobe or triple-strobe before they converted to digital.
The flickerfeel will be roughly the same, as long as you darken the room like a theater, set picture brightness roughly similar, and sit further back enough that it's the same FOV as your favorite cinema seat.
Not everyone likes that, but it can be a reasonable compromise for some people -- many videophiles prefer the flickerfeel of 48Hz or 72Hz doublestrobe. Retrotink 4K can do that during 96Hz (with BFI to create 48Hz double strobe flicker) or 144Hz (with BFI to create 72Hz triple strobe flicker).
You will not be able to do 4K/24p input, but you can do 1080p/24 input. The bandwidth is designed for retro game devices, and its ability to do retro projector devices is apparently an accidental bonus of its flexible capabilities.
NeonPizza wrote: ↑13 Aug 2023, 14:41
Also, for Samsung's 2023 S90C QD-OLED, which doesn't support 120hz bfi, will Retrotink4k still be able to get '60fps' video games down to a 4ms persistence instead of the S90C's default internal BFI's 8.3ms?
Without any additional BFI help inside a television -- box-in-middle-BFI is throttled to minimum refreshtime. So you can only get 1/120sec MPRT = 8.3ms.
But you can sometimes get it brighter than a TV's own BFI, because of the "SDR to HDR" conversion and nit boosting.
Remember, this was designed for retro boxes.
NeonPizza wrote: ↑13 Aug 2023, 14:41
And would it also work for 120fps titles and get as low as 4ms as well, rather than just 8ms. Samsung scrapped 120hz BFI, so there's no low, medium or High settings. Just vanilla 120fps or 144fps.
Sadly, you need output refresh rate above input refresh rate, to add the blacked-out refresh cycles. That's a limitation of box-in-middle BFI.
You can probably use QFT modes (or the VRR-flag trick to pipe a fixed capped Hz through a VRR-enabled mode, to get any custom Hz between 48-144Hz).
If you can overclock to 150Hz (PAL) or 180Hz (NTSC) somehow, you can use improved BFI with 66% motion blur reduction with the customizable BFI settings. One Retrotink 4K beta tester says 180Hz is an excellent compromise even on LG 240Hz WOLED because you can get 1/180sec MPRT for 60fps material.
NeonPizza wrote: ↑13 Aug 2023, 14:41
Input lag is another concern of mine. If i use MotionPro High on my LG C1 when gaming at 60fps, i go from 10ms(or 13ms without boost mode) to around 20ms with input lag. Would it be the exact same case with Retrotink4k or would it actually add additional latency on top of the 20ms? I'm not quite sure, but i heard that gaming at 120fps(5ms lag) and using either Low, Medium or High will jump you back to 10ms too.
The problem is the Retrotink needs to buffer the slow-scanning signal (it takes 1/60sec for the last pixel to transmit to the Retrotink from your GPU, after the first pixel starts transmitting over HDMI/DP) before fast-scanning the output. It will get a head start, e.g. start outputting 120Hz halfway through accepting a 60Hz signal, as Retrotink 4K is a FPGA beam raced architecture. But it is bound by the laws and physics of not being able to output pixels before receiving them on the input. So you get half a 60Hz refresh latency for 120Hz output with BFI. That said, if you can QFT your 60Hz input (e.g. PC based source), you can fully eliminate your BFI latency.
NeonPizza wrote: ↑13 Aug 2023, 14:41
Perhaps, with larger size 240hz Micro-LED displays in the future, we'll finally get that CRT 1ms persistence.
You need 1000fps 1000Hz for 1ms MPRT from completely box-in-middle BFI, since sample and hold displays are throttled to refreshtime in MPRT.
120Hz OLEDs = Best is 1/120sec MPRT via software BFI = ~8.3ms MPRT
240Hz OLEDs = Best is 1/240sec MPRT via software BFI = ~4.2ms MPRT
480Hz OLEDs = Best is 1/480sec MPRT via software BFI = ~2.1ms MPRT
1000Hz OLEDs = Best is 1/1000sec MPRT via software BFI = ~1ms MPRT
If your display can "help", sometimes combining the BFI in a display and the BFI in Retrotink, can reduce MPRTs further. For example, Retrotink will successfully allow you to use 120Hz LCD strobe backlights with 60Hz signal input! (The software black frames blocks out every other hardware strobe, creating an effective 60Hz single strobe). And gain the MPRT of the strobe backlight.
We can only do our best given the laws of physics of middleman-injection BFI.
If you have a 240Hz display, please stare at the laws of physics of
TestUFO Variable-Persistence BFI (designed for 240Hz displays) -- these are the single-strobe BFI choices Retrotink can give you for any 240Hz display. This educational scientific animation, helps demonstrates that pulsewidth dictates persistence display motion blur.
After looking at the motion test, do you now understand how refreshtime throttles motion blur? So with box-in-middle BFI (without any hardware help0, you can only make 60fps and 120fps match the motion blur of 240fps.
#MoreHzTheMerrier for accurate retro CRT simulation.