Clear Motion Seeker wrote: ↑06 May 2023, 10:50
NeonPizza wrote: ↑03 May 2023, 23:13
The masses probably don't care because the vast majority have been so accustomed to buying crappy LCD & LED TV's ever since the demise of Plasma in 2014.
They've grown accustomed to the slower motion response time of LCD & LED TV's, that OLED by comparison seems like a bit of an upgrade.
The average person doesn't give much importance about fidelity or seeking a kind of video that's as close as possible to reality. As long as it is eye-catching, it's good, even though their own contents are completely different from these very artificial and "perfect" (also usually slow) tech videos.
That's one of the reasons why plasma couldn't compete with LCD displays in stores, because the viewing conditions weren't in favor of the first one and it looked pale and dull in comparison.
Magic of marketing, an endless story.
I tried using my LG C1 65" OLED's BFI(MotionPro HIGH) for a few movies yesterday and that flicker....Man. I mean, I understand both plasma and CRT have it, but it looks more natural. the flicker on either isn't bothersome, as it isn't on my S60 plasma. But when i bounce back to my OLED using BFI, i can instantly see the strobing/pulsating effect, especially on whites and it's a bit too much for my eyes to adjust to, which in return makes the setting almost useless. In the LG C1's case, It makes game mode too dark and dim, and then you have to deal with BFI shadow detail crushing and near black gamma issues. It's a total mess. I'm sure with QD-OLED, like with the S95C, It's BFI will have more brightness under the hood at least, but the flicks i hear are still unbearable. So now we're back to that lousy 16ms motion persistence with 300p motion clarity. $3999 CAD for a 65" S95C, with motion clarity & persistence that's far inferior to a 1985 CRT Tube TV.
I haven't tested an OLED TV in a long session so far, but the flicker effect induced by BFI isn't better than the flickering mode of my own mid-range Sony TV from 2013 (KDL-42W650), that i paid for less than 500 bucks.
The flickering effect looks very obvious and agressive when i switch between on and off, but i don't notice it that much anymore after a moment, as long as the main color is not white.
The problem is that it gets much dimmer and there's some "double-edge" effect that is probably tied to the LCD panel.
As the OLED is much better in this area, it would be better regarding display response time, but the lack of brightness is not acceptable.
While plasma's motion clarity isn't as crisp as CRT's, it's so much better compared to all sample-and-hold displays.
And, to date, it's still the best compromise between brightness, colors, contrast and motion clarity.
I'd feel like a complete sucker forking over that much money. Maybe if it were $2999(cad) and i put about $1700 towards it after selling my 65" C1.
Completely.
I'm thinking more and more about getting a plasma TV, maybe a Pioneer Kuro.
I know it's completely obsolete compared to modern standards such like 4K, HDR and other features like VRR for gaming, and while i wouldn't say they're gimmicks (they're not), they're severly altered (if not disabled) when BFI mode is activated. Therefore i couldn't care to get these extra features because they can't compensate for a lack of motion clarity.
No Smart TV (i couldn't care less, as they are not updated anymore after a few years and it's better to plug a Nvidia Shield for example), no very thin bezel, no 4K resolution, no HDR, no modern features, but a core picture that's still outstanding and which brings the essential.
I can't wrap my head around the people that get ecstatic over Dolby Vision & HDR strictly in terms of movie/TV watching. You're sacrificing motion clarity & persistence with both since using BFI defeats the purpose for both formats. You can't have it both ways.
You CAN get HDR + 120fps when gaming, with zero sacrifices and if the HDR is actually quality HDR, then you're good to go! But with Movie/TV watching it's a double edge sword. I don't care how beautiful the DV or HDR looks, because the motion will just look sloppy and artificial.
At this point, in terms of movie/TV watching on HD TV's, overall, plasma is still king for those that actually value motion. far less flicker(looks natural), up to 1080p motion clarity & below 8ms persistence depending on the plasma, and noticeably less film Judder. Plus 1080p Blur-rays look better than on a 4K TV since there's zero upscaling, and there's less upscaling with DVD's.
But ya, I'm throwing in the towel with my LG C1's Motion Pro HIgh/BFI setting just because the flicker is eye straining and super agressive on whites. If that weren't the case, and it delivered flicks in line with plasma or if they were just slightly worse I'd be content. BFI on my TV has near black gamma issues and excess shadow detail crushing, both both can be improved with a pro calibration. But you're still left with choppy film judder. It just makes certain character movements and panning shots look awful. Plasma has film judder too, but it's a lot smoother and more natural. Movies look more like movies on Plasma and CRT when all said and done.
I already feel like a sucker having forked over $3000 CAD for my LG C1 2 years ago. The colour volume and WRGB color in general are terrible unless you're opting for 'native' colour(which artificially changes the colour, but it's essential)but if you don't you're left with unsaturated lifeless colours which look absolutely terrible. This isn't an issue with QD-OLED, thankfully.
Plus the C1 has banding/gradient issues that aren't noticeable on my plasma. Sure my panny S60 can't get as bright as my Sony Wega trinitron CRT, nor can it match the 1ms motion persistence, but it's a hell of a lot more pleasing and natural to the eye than watching movies on any WRGB OLED. Yeah, the true blacks, brightness boost and whiter whites look beautiful on OLED, but i hate having to make sacrifices while upgrading in other areas.
Ideally, i wish i could magically switch between a 65" Panasonic ST60(or Kuro) for Movies/TV shows, and then to a 65" Samsung S95C QD-OLED for Nintendo Switch & PS5. Game mode's motion interpolation option can improve motion drastically by forcing an artificial 120 for any 60fps title with just under 20ms of latency. That's a BIG selling point for somebody like me. Unfortunately, it's BFI still has nasty flicker and according to owners isn't viable for movies/TV. Another big blow, which is why I would only be willing to buy the S95C once it goes on sale.
I'd probably have to spend an additional 2 grand, if i opt for an open box sale, while selling off my 65" C1 for around $1700 CAD to just score the 65" S95C.
lol...By the Time Micro-LED(Since they'll have a lot more brightness to spare for BFI) becomes affordable, and TV manufactures actually TRY with BFI, and possibly deliver a 1ms motion persistence, 1080p+ motion clarity, with less film judder and BFI flicks I'll probably won't even care by that point. Seeing as how advanced AR & VR will be with companies like Apple etc.
The PSVR2's motion persistence(with brightness slider set to zero) is FAR better than ANY OLED using BFI on the market. I could of sworn that i read it was around 2ms...I've seen it first hand and it's very very good. But it isn't practical nor comfortable watching movies with a big chunky VR headset on your head.
.....Apple VR is entirely different story, which would absolutely work!