G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Motion blur eliminating strobe backlights found in gaming monitors. This includes NVIDIA LightBoost, Ultra Low Motion Blur (ULMB), EIZO Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight utility, etc.

Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby decoy11 » 07 Jan 2017, 21:45

I just found this patent from Nvidia on low motion blur and variable refresh rate in a display. Maybe Nvidia will get this to work without the brightness problem one day.

http://www.patentsencyclopedia.com/app/20150109286
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby lexlazootin » 08 Jan 2017, 02:14

Solid find.
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 09 Jan 2017, 12:21

Very good find! A patent on strobed variable refresh rate.

I have full respect for NVIDIA's amazing work!

That said, portions of this patent is not new info since I've got some articles published on strobed variable refresh rate ideas on October 19th, 2013: Electronics Hacking: Creating a Strobe Backlight .... Which match many line-items in the 2015 patent. Without studying further, NVIDIA's patent likely has enough original research and patent stuff to be valid patent, however, specific line-items are definitely prior-art like light output averaging techniques (which I already wrote about in 2013).

PROOF: Internet Archive / WayBack Machine

I mention this just to make sure all bases are covered -- as NVIDIA has historically no problem with hobbyists here on Blur Busters Forums that experiment with Ardino/microcontroller/firmware mod hacking of monitor backlights, as well as thought exercises, as well as experiments that have actually been done. This includes utilizing strobed variable refresh rate techniques and flicker-mitigation techniques / light-output averaging techniques -- that I already wrote about in 2013.

While most of us are "Enthusiasts" / "Monitor Hackers" / "Fan Club" material here, I am aware that readers and forum members here, such as zisworks, earns small amounts of money (compared to NVIDIA) on monitor mods & monitor hacking (high refresh rates, variable refresh rates, etc), so I post here, to just mention prior arts, protecting whatever line-items has already been done, even if not all line-items.

Anyway, full respect to NVIDIA for their innovations they have continued to do, and also exciting stuff, as it shows big parties are working on simultaneously solving blur + VRR.

Strobed Variable Refresh Rate Patent #20150109286 wrote:Patent application title: SYSTEM, METHOD, AND COMPUTER PROGRAM PRODUCT FOR COMBINING LOW MOTION BLUR AND VARIABLE REFRESH RATE IN A DISPLAY

Inventors: Tom Verbeure (Sunnyvale, CA, US) Gerrit A. Slavenburg (Fremont, CA, US) Thomas F. Fox (Santa Clara, CA, US) Robert Jan Schutten (San Jose, CA, US) Luis Mariano Lucas (San Jose, CA, US) Marcel Dominicus Janssens (Sunnyvale, CA, US)
Assignees: NVIDIA CORPORATION
IPC8 Class: AG09G336FI
USPC Class: 345419
Class name: Computer graphics processing and selective visual display systems computer graphics processing three-dimension
Publication date: 2015-04-23
Patent application number: 20150109286




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Abstract:

A system, method, and computer program product are provided for combining low motion blur and variable refresh rate in a display. In one embodiment, a hold-type display is operated in a first mode of operation where the hold-type display is dynamically refreshed such that the hold type display handles updates to image frames at unpredictable times and where for each of the image frames a backlight of the hold-type display is activated for an entire duration of display of the image frame. Additionally, it is determined that at least one predefined condition has been met. Further, in response to the determination, the hold-type display is operated in a second mode of operation where the hold-type display is statically refreshed such that the hold-type display handles updates to image frames at regular intervals and where for each of the image frames the backlight of the hold-type display is flashed.
Claims:

1. A method, comprising: operating a hold-type display in a first mode of operation where the hold-type display is dynamically refreshed such that the hold-type display handles updates to image frames at unpredictable times and where for each of the image frames a backlight of the hold-type display is activated for an entire duration of display of the image frame; determining that at least one first predefined condition has been met; in response to the determination that the at least one first predefined condition has been met, operating the hold-type display in a second mode of operation where the hold-type display is dynamically refreshed and where for each of the image frames the backlight of the hold-type display is flashed; determining that at least one second predefined condition has been met; and in response to the determination that the at least one second predefined condition has been met, returning operation of the hold-type display from the second mode of operation to the first mode of operation.

2. The method of claim 1, wherein the at least one predefined condition includes a predefined refresh rate of the hold-type display, such that determining that the at least one predefined condition has been met is based on a determination that the hold-type display is operating at or above the predefined refresh rate.

3. The method of claim 2, wherein temporal hysteresis is utilized with respect to the predefined threshold rate for determining whether the at least one predefined condition has been met, including: determining that the at least one predefined condition has been met when the hold-type display is operating at or above the predefined refresh rate for a preconfigured amount of time.

4. The method of claim 1, wherein the at least one predefined condition includes a determination that fewer than a threshold number of image frame pairs previously displayed in sequence differed in duration by less than a threshold amount.

5. The method of claim 1, wherein the at least one predefined condition includes a determination that an application generating the image frames is either: included in a whitelist of applications predetermined to be suitable with operation of the hold-type display in the second mode of operation, or not included in a blacklist of applications predetermined to not be suitable with operation of the hold-type display in the second mode of operation.

6. The method of claim 1, wherein for at least some of the image frames the backlight of the hold-type display is flashed for a duration of time that is less than the entire duration of display of the image frame.

7. The method of claim 6, wherein for at least some of the image frames the backlight of the hold-type display is flashed for a duration of time and a level of intensity which in combination produces a desired level of light output by the backlight.

8. The method of claim 7, wherein the desired average level of light is constant across the image frames displayed during operation of the hold-type display in the second mode of operation.

9. The method of claim 7, wherein the duration of time and the level of intensity which in combination produces the desired level of light output by the backlight for the image frame is determined as a function of an estimated duration of time of that image frame.

10. The method of claim 9, wherein the estimated duration of time is determined as a duration of time in which a preceding image frame was displayed.

11. The method of claim 9, wherein the estimated duration of frame time is determined based on a pattern in durations of time for a predetermined number of preceding image frames.

12. The method of claim 9, wherein the estimated duration of frame time is determined based on a duration of time for a preceding image frame in combination with information received from a processor rendering the image frame, the information indicating for each rendering operation performed by the processor, any difference between a time taken to perform the operation when rendering the image frame and a time taken to perform the operation when rendering the preceding image frame.

13. The method of claim 7, wherein the duration of time and the level of intensity which in combination produces the desired level of light output by the backlight for the image frame is determined as a function of an actual duration of time during which the image frame is to be displayed.

14. The method of claim 13, wherein the actual duration of time is determined by: delaying display of the image frame until an entirety of a next image frame to be displayed is received from a processor rendering the next image frame, and determining the actual duration of time as a period between receipt of the image from the processor and receipt of the next image frame from the processor.

15. The method of claim 7, wherein transitioning from operating the hold-type display in the first mode of operation to operating the hold-type display in the second mode of operation includes: displaying an image frame in the first mode of operation, and then displaying a next image frame in the second mode of operation with the backlight of the hold-type display being flashed for the duration of time and the level of intensity which in combination produces the desired level of light output by the backlight.

16. The method of claim 7, wherein transitioning from operating the hold-type display in the first mode of operation to operating the hold-type display in the second mode of operation includes: displaying an image frame in the first mode of operation, and then displaying a sequence of next image frames in the second mode of operation with the backlight of the hold-type display being flashed for each of the next image frames with incrementally intermediate levels of light output that are between a level of light output by the backlight during the first mode of operation the desired level of light output for the second mode of operation, and further displaying a subsequent image frame in the second mode of operation with the backlight of the hold-type display being flashed for the duration of time and the level of intensity which in combination produces the desired level of light output for the second mode of operation.

17. The method of claim 9, wherein when displaying an image frame while operating the hold-type display in the second mode of operation such that the backlight is flashed to achieve the desired level of light as determined based on the estimated duration of time during which the image frame is to be displayed, allowing: receipt of information from a processor rendering a next image frame to be displayed by the hold-type display, the information indicating an error in the estimated duration of time during which the image frame is to be displayed, and control of the backlight to correct for the indicated error.

18. The method of claim 17, wherein when the error is that the duration of time during which the image frame is to be displayed is longer than the estimated duration of time: determining the duration of time and the level of intensity which in combination produces the desired level of light output by the backlight for the image frame as a function of the longer duration of time for the image frame indicated by the information received from the processor, and correcting for the error by re-activating the backlight after the flashing of the backlight for the image frame in order to achieve the desired level of light output that is the function of the longer duration of time.

19. The method of claim 1, wherein when displaying an image frame while operating the hold-type display in the second mode of operation, for each pixel of the image frame: identifying a value of the pixel to be displayed, modifying the value of the pixel as a function of both: a determined duration of time during which the image frame is to be displayed, and a location of the pixel in the image frame, and displaying the pixel using the modified value.

20. The method of claim 19, wherein the determined duration of time during which the image frame is to be displayed includes either an estimated duration of time or an actual duration of time.

21. The method of claim 7, wherein for each of the image frames an actual level of light output by the backlight is measured to determine whether the actual level of light output differs from the desired level of light, such that when it is determined that the actual level of light output differs from the desired level of light, the duration of time and the level of intensity for which the backlight is flashed for the current and/or future frames is adjusted to compensate for the determined difference.

22. The method of claim 1, wherein the image frames are passive three-dimensional (3D) stereo image frames, such that the hold-type display displays the images for passive 3D stereo viewing.

23. The method of claim 1, wherein when operating the hold-type display in the second mode of operation, the backlight is flashed for an image frame in response to an entirety of the image frame being displayed by the hold-type display or a predetermined amount of time after the beginning of the display of the entirety of the image frame by the hold-type display.

24. A method, comprising: operating an impulse-type display or an impulse-like display in a first mode of operation where the display is statically refreshed such that the display handles updates to image frames at fixed times; determining that at least one first predefined condition has been met; in response to the determination that the at least one first predefined condition has been met, operating the display in a second mode of operation where the display is dynamically refreshed such that the display handles updates to image frames at irregular intervals and where for each of the image frames an illumination is a function of a known or predicted refresh time period for that image frame; determining that at least one second predefined condition has been met; and in response to the determination that the at least one second predefined condition has been met, returning operation of the display from the second mode of operation to the first mode of operation.

25. A method, comprising: operating a hold-type display in a first mode of operation where the hold-type display is dynamically refreshed such that the hold-type display handles updates to image frames at unpredictable times and where for each of the image frames a backlight of the hold-type display is activated for an entire duration of display of the image frame; determining that at least one first predefined condition has been met; in response to the determination that the at least one first predefined condition has been met, operating the hold-type display in a second mode of operation where the hold-type display is statically refreshed such that the hold-type display handles updates to image frames at regular intervals and where for each of the image frames the backlight of the hold-type display is flashed; determining that at least one second predefined condition has been met; and in response to the determination that the at least one second predefined condition has been met, returning operation of the hold-type display from the second mode of operation to the first mode of operation.
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 22 Jan 2017, 12:29

Update...
This trick actually can do a lower-latency strobed VSYNC ON equivalent!
In other words: A very forgiving nearly-fixed-framerate VSYNC ON smooth motion, with far less input lag than normal VSYNC ON

For those who want strobed fixed-framerate VSYNC ON, I've found a new way to use this GSYNC+ULMB trick to pull off a lower-lag fixed-framerate VSYNC ON mode.

1. Trick your monitor into enabling GSYNC and ULMB at the same time (Easiest: Dell S2716DG + 3D Vision Kit + masteroaku tricks)
2. Run a game that can do low-latency framerate capping (source engine games, e.g. CS:GO).
Set the cap to approximately 20% lower than the maximum refresh rate (since 1trobing at max rate creates lots of strobe crosstalk). e.g. for a 144hz monitor, use a frame cap of 120 -- such as a "fps_max 120" setting
3. Adjust detail level of game so that it almost never falls below framerate cap.

The important thing is the framerate cap needs to minimize time between input reads and frame delivery to the GPU. Not all framerate capping utilities does this properly, but Source engine fps_max setting works very well for this (CS:GO, Borderlands series, Half Life 2 series, Portal series, whatever runs Source Engine). Framerate capping instructions will vary from game to game.

Now you've got a low-latency strobed VSYNC ON mode that's also very forgiving of rendertime jitter (late rendertimes). A frame that's a few microseconds late won't cause a noticeable stutter at all -- the frame will be displayed anyway, thanks to the beauty of GSYNC. So the framerate can vary nicely from 119fps to 121fps pretty beautifully, without noticeable flicker -- with the full Nintendo-smooth stutter-free zero-jitter pans, assuming your game never falls below the framerate cap.

Note: To minimize amplification of mouse jitters (strobing amplifies human-visibility of mouse jitters), see Blur Busters Mouse Guide.

For more graphics heavy games, racing games, combat flight simulators, try using a cap of 85 or 100, you'll still get the CRT-arcade-smooth feel (while still having less motion blur than 144fps@144Hz). It's far easier to prevent a game from falling below 85fps. This way, you avoid flicker of unoptimized variable-rate strobing.

This may not zero out enough input lag to be useful to professional/tournament competition gamers, but it is useful to anybody who wants strobing and enjoys perfect fluidity motion, but need to minimize input lag.

This clever monitor trick needs to be added as an official mode to monitors & monitor drivers, if possible.
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby sharknice » 23 Jan 2017, 03:22

So is this possible to do on monitors without a 3D vision kit? Like an Asus PG278Q?
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby kandor1978 » 23 Jan 2017, 06:19

Hi

On my two acer monitors it is
All I have to do is copy the 120hz res settings in cru
add 1 pixel to each direction and save the new resolution and restart graphic driver
Could try and see if that works for you also or not

Best,
Kandor

sharknice wrote:So is this possible to do on monitors without a 3D vision kit? Like an Asus PG278Q?
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby masterotaku » 24 Jan 2017, 07:00

Chief, have you tried doing my G-Sync + ULMB setup? If you are interested in this stuff, I don't know what you are waiting for :P .

About the fps cap, keep in mind that this G-Sync + ULMB mode only works at 100Hz and 120Hz, because you have to be in Lightboost mode when you create the custom resolution. So with a 120fps cap you are hitting the G-Sync limit. It should be fine with slightly lower fps, I guess.

When I played Wolfenstein The Old Blood, it was great. Completely stable 60fps with strobing and no input lag (it made a big difference compared to vsynched 60Hz with strobing in my old BenQ XL2411Z).

By the way, I'm going to do an experiment before this weekend. I'll save my custom resolutions with a program (https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thre ... ackup-Tool), and restore them after installing new drivers. If G-Sync + ULMB works with those restored resolutions, it will avoid the need of 3D Vision. At least with this monitor. The next experiment would be restoring those resolutions on Windows 10. If the first step works, I hope there are volunteers here that can help with W10 (my SSD is almost full, so I can't install W10).
CPU: Intel Core i5 4670K @ 4.3GHz
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
RAM: GSkill Ripjaws X 1600MHz CL7
Motherboard: ASUS Z87-A
Monitor: Dell S2716DG
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby masterotaku » 24 Jan 2017, 07:08

sharknice wrote:So is this possible to do on monitors without a 3D vision kit? Like an Asus PG278Q?


In theory you need the kit, and even then I don't know if this trick can only work on my monitor or not. Even if my experiment from my post above works, I think Nvidia stores its custom resolutions for each monitor (am I wrong?).
CPU: Intel Core i5 4670K @ 4.3GHz
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
RAM: GSkill Ripjaws X 1600MHz CL7
Motherboard: ASUS Z87-A
Monitor: Dell S2716DG
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby masterotaku » 24 Jan 2017, 16:25

The first experiment worked!

I backed up my custom resolutions with the Nvidia Custom Resolutions Backup Tool (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=373845), uninstalled the Nvidia drivers with Display Driver Uninstaller, disconnected the 3D Vision emitter just in case, installed the newest drivers and restored the resolutions.

After enabling them in the Nvidia Control Panel, they work in G-Sync + ULMB mode perfectly! When you have G-Sync enabled in the Nvidia Control Panel, of course.

So now I'm sharing my ".bin" file. People that have a Dell S2716DG have to download it and restore it with the Nvidia Custom Resolutions Backup Tool.

Bin file: https://s3.amazonaws.com/masterotaku/G- ... 6gsync.bin

Just in case I backed up the tool: https://s3.amazonaws.com/masterotaku/G- ... .0.2.2.rar


What I need now is owners of the S2716DG to try it on Windows 7 and Windows 10. Windows 8 is acceptable too, but the most important one is Windows 10, to future proof this secret mode. I'll post this in the Geforce Forums for more visibility. Edit: here: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topi ... s-wanted-/

Does anyone know if custom resolutions are locked to specific monitors? Just to know if someone can import that file while using an Asus PG278Q and make those resolutions appear.
CPU: Intel Core i5 4670K @ 4.3GHz
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
RAM: GSkill Ripjaws X 1600MHz CL7
Motherboard: ASUS Z87-A
Monitor: Dell S2716DG
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 25 Jan 2017, 10:56

masterotaku wrote:Chief, have you tried doing my G-Sync + ULMB setup? If you are interested in this stuff, I don't know what you are waiting for :P

We don't currently have the supported monitor at this time -- but we'd love to get that Dell monitor!

Even most websites can't buy the dozens / hundreds of GSYNC/FreeSync monitors now available, and Dell hasn't currently offered to send a loaner monitor (yet). However, we're taking steps to relaunch the (currently outdated) main Blur Busters website this year. This will allow ramping up monitor testing again over time. This site has been upgraded to an SSD-based web hosting service (Forums, TestUFO, the website, etc) as there were performance problems (nightly backups of all the Blur Busters websites were taking 1+ hour to complete). So that is finally out of the way.

masterotaku wrote:When I played Wolfenstein The Old Blood, it was great. Completely stable 60fps with strobing and no input lag (it made a big difference compared to vsynched 60Hz with strobing in my old BenQ XL2411Z).

Strobed 60Hz is available through the GSYNC+ULMB trick? Neat!
That's another advantage.
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