Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Falkentyne » 13 Feb 2017, 17:03

If the problem happens when moving diagonally up to the left and not up to the right, then I would blame that on the game.
I haven't played PoE even though I do own it, so I can't really help. I assume changing the strobe phase from 0 to 90 changes this?
(if using a VT tweak at higher than 60hz refresh rate, going too high on the strobe phase exceeds the strobe timing and the backlight will shut off if blur reduction is on).

VT 1497-VT 1502 works because Lightboost uses this range internally. Benq reverse engineered Lightboost, which is why on V1 firmware, all refresh rates lower than 100hz would double strobe, 50hz-97hz

If you unlock the factory menu (which is also called the burn-in menu), you will see how changing the VT interacts with the scaler.
Starting with low Vt changes, even a little below the default of VT 1133 or VT 1144, you will see the vertical resolution change slowly in chunks. Eventually certain VT's will show a picture but display "Out of range" because the scaler will be working with an improper resolution. Example: going above VT 1380, to VT 1410 will display "1792x1344", with an out of range popup error. Higher than 1410 will black screen up to 1481, when an out of range error of 1920x1440(!) appears. Then after VT 1485, more black screens, then at VT 1497, suddenly the 1920 changes to 1280(!)x1440, and no more errors (since this range is used by Lightboost).

50hz is missing single strobe data.

If you're still getting jitter, raise or lower the VT by "1" until it goes away. This jitter MUST be tested in TestUFO/alien invasion. Testing for it in games is too unreliable.

You can run the toastyx driver restarter after each attempt.
The best way to test this is to set the desktop refresh rate to 100hz, and then switch to 60hz to test it, rather than having the desktop reset to 60hz after running the toastyX driver restarter.

I actually forgot about the HDMI pixel clock limits.
HDMI pixel clock is limited to <165 MHz, which is half of the dual link DVI clock limits of 330 MHz (basically single link dvi), so I'm not even sure if a HT of 2876 will work over HDMI. As I think you'd be over 250 MHz pixel clock. Remember I never tested VT tweaks over HDMI. I only tested HDMI once or twice, I think to do a "bug" with Hue and Saturation (they unlock over HDMI, but you can SAVE the values into a gaming preset, then hook up DVI and RECALL the preset, and even though the values are greyed out, the values you changed actually get USED....meaning it's "possible" to use Hue and Saturation over DVI--this does NOT work in Standard Mode though, only FPS/RTS modes).

But yeah. basically, any jittering you get would be at the same periodic rate, if it's being caused by a VT tweak being sent to the scaler. Usually between every half second to every 8 seconds (yes I've seen it that high before).

This is over displayport on a XL2720Z, but the most trouble free VT tweaks I've found on this monitor are:
60hz: VT 1354 (HT 2080)
85hz: VT 1350, VT 1501 (everything else stutters in the "lightboost" VT range of 1497-1502; 1497, 1498, 1499, 1500 and 1502 all repeatedly stutter, only 1501 works well).
100hz: VT 1500, 1502
120hz: VT 1500
125hz: VT 1497

2560x1440 100hz (Displayport, DVI): HT 2720, VT: 1500 <--yes this works. This apparently works on a XL2411z and XL2420Z and 2430T.
2560x1440 115hz (displayport only. DVI will black screen): HT: 2641, VT: 1500

Dakkon
Posts: 13
Joined: 13 Feb 2017, 08:04

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Dakkon » 14 Feb 2017, 13:28

Hi, so I reverted all my nvidia settings and it is way less choppy, just now and again it will happen, so it's really not a big deal. Also for curiosity's sake, the top left corner thing doesn't ghost anymore but it jitters, like how the game was doing before hand. Though I found out moving the camera with the arrow keys instead of the mouse is fine. Very strange, must be a game thing like you said!

I'm going to test a few more 2D games out and see how they perform. I did test Diablo 1 and that still ghosts a little, but that is such an old low res game that it could just be that.

I have a couple of questions.
Can I get this pixel perfect non-ghosting at higher hz, like 120hz? I hear that is the max you can go for these tweaks, though from what you said above, 125hz is possible. So 144hz is out of range?

Also I forgot to mention, I will be using DVI-D. HDMI is just for my consoles, I was only testing that before.

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Falkentyne » 14 Feb 2017, 14:13

VT tweaks don't work higher than 128hz. It's also probably not best to use bizarre refresh rates that are not evenly divisible into mouse polling rates because that introduces microstutters.

Dakkon
Posts: 13
Joined: 13 Feb 2017, 08:04

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Dakkon » 14 Feb 2017, 19:27

Ok, I have my PC running pretty much fine now. I realised the main ghosting problem with PoE was actually vsync! Though 60hz definitely looks better. Anything higher still ghosts slightly, same with Diablo 3.

But I still have other problems. I was testing my PS4, I tried Rez which I assume runs at 60hz, it looks great. But Bloodborne on the other hand looks awful, way worse than my last monitor. That game I know runs at 30hz, is there any way to fix that? I tried toggling single strobe on and off and it doesn't make any difference. Different AMA settings too.
PS4 is connected with HDMI.

And also, I have a Dreamcast connected by VGA and that looks the same too, extremely bad ghosting. But that game runs at 60hz. Is VGA handled differently?

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Falkentyne » 14 Feb 2017, 19:44

I don't have any consoles so I can't help with this :( sorry.
I didn't have any problems with VGA connected to a computer with single strobe (laptop) , but that was a PC.
50hz will not single strobe at all. In fact it will trigger OCP and make the monitor shut off if you turn on single strobe. Double strobe works fine.

Dakkon
Posts: 13
Joined: 13 Feb 2017, 08:04

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Dakkon » 15 Feb 2017, 08:23

I think the problem is 30hz, I tested an old pc game that is locked at 30hz (baldurs gate 2) and that is exactly the same.

Though I double checked, and my dreamcast was definitely running at 60hz, so I don't know why that doesn't look good. It doesn't work over VGA maybe? Though you got your laptop working so I don't know why it wouldn't work for me.

The dreamcast I could live without, I can always connect it to my CRT, or replace that CRT with one with a VGA connector. It's just a little strange if it's running at 60hz. Actually I just thought, maybe it's because there's no v-sync?

But the 30hz thing is a problem, does this monitor just not handle 30hz well?

Helban
Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Feb 2017, 14:53

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Helban » 15 Feb 2017, 15:05

Hello guys!

Thank you for all the help you provided so far. I've tried to follow this thread to setup my own BenQ XL2411 (not Z) to get the best out of it, and I've did everything mentioned, that is:

Using DVI and 1920x1080, already installed older drivers for Z version to use strobe utility, set it to persistance at 2, crosstalk at 0

Set it to 120 hz not 144
set custom resolution with VT 1350/1500
Set correctly all the OCD settings

Still no effect, is there anything more/else I can do to remove the ghosting from the aliens?

P.s
sorry for the quality, did my best to capture this with my phone, heh

Best regards,
Helban
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Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Falkentyne » 15 Feb 2017, 15:18

That looks extremely bad. Are you sure you did the AMA bug by setting AMA To high **AFTER** enabling blur reduction? You have to move the slider back to high even if it's already on high.

Your AMA looks like it's on premium. It also looks like you have low contrast, because setting contrast to low causes the ghosting to become "Translucent".

This is my XL2720Z with 120hz, default AMA (doing the bug actually turns the inverse ghosting into normal ghosting, long story on that).

Image

Helban
Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Feb 2017, 14:53

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Helban » 15 Feb 2017, 15:44

Hey Falkentyne,

Yes, I've followed this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/c ... onitor_to/

when setting all the OCD stuff, I've changed the AMA a couple of times to different values - no difference really

It might be the case of picture taking, but it definetely doesnt look like yours when i follow the aliens with my eyes.

The alien test is also set to 1920 pixels/sec

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Falkentyne » 15 Feb 2017, 15:50

Did you do the following?

1) turn on blur reduction.
2) go to the AMA slider with TestUFO open and look at the ghosting carefully.
3) Move the slider from high, to off/premium then back to high.

The inverse ghosting should be greatly reduced.
On V1 and V2 firmware, the inverse ghosting would -increase- and actually be worse than AMA Premium!
On V3, for XL2411Z, XL2420Z and XL2720Z, the "Low" hidden toggle was introduced.

BTW do you know what firmware your monitor has?
You can open either the service menu or factory menu to check.

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467

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