Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
Helban
Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Feb 2017, 14:53

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Helban » 15 Feb 2017, 16:06

I've took a picture without the grid lines now, maybe it's better visible.

I've tested the ama slider, youre right, it changes on how the ghost appears to be, i can notice slight difference and High looks best indeed.

I've checked what firmware i have and it's even more, it's V0006

Now i've noticed something else, the top of the screen, ghosts even to the front and to the back, the middle, less, and the bottom the least i think.... is this how it gets? Thats the best i can achieve and thats how it should be like?

Pictures are
bottom
middle
top
Attachments
16735790_10211596032087169_1181701443_o.jpg
16735790_10211596032087169_1181701443_o.jpg (69.95 KiB) Viewed 8375 times
16804948_10211596000646383_1934507995_o.jpg
16804948_10211596000646383_1934507995_o.jpg (76.66 KiB) Viewed 8377 times
16804719_10211595976005767_59510794_o.jpg
16804719_10211595976005767_59510794_o.jpg (84.61 KiB) Viewed 8377 times

Helban
Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Feb 2017, 14:53

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Helban » 15 Feb 2017, 16:27

Edit:

Ok i see your post you linked,
For DVI connections, you will need the AMD or Nvidia pixel clock patcher for VT tweaks if the DVI dual link clock exceeds 330.00 mhz.
You will *NOT* need a patcher for displayport connections.
I have not done that and my mhz with HT 2080 and VT 1502 shows 374,8992 MHZ, will try that
Edit2:
Tried the patcher - i see no changes, I've uploaded my nvidia resolution settings for checkings as well
Attachments
2017-02-15 22_26_08-Panel sterowania NVIDIA.png
2017-02-15 22_26_08-Panel sterowania NVIDIA.png (26.76 KiB) Viewed 8374 times

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Falkentyne » 15 Feb 2017, 16:52

Nice, that ghosting looks MUCH better after toggling, doesn't it? Unfortunately, ANY change to BRIGHTNESS (even by 1 point) or ANY strobe adjustment setting will instantly revert the AMA. it seems like the AMA is set based on other parameters so it resets as soon as anything is changed, since this is an "undocumented" and unsupported hidden setting.

I'm not sure if the pixel clock patcher is working or not. This depends on what strobe phase you are currently using. If you're using strobe phase 000, with a high strobe duty, yes, this tends to happen at the top of the screen, for undesirable reasons (even I don't know WHY it happens). Basically with a strobe phase of =000, as you increase STROBE DUTY, it acts like the crosstalk is moving downwards, similar to if you were increasing strobe phase. Why? I don't know. I asked Chief Blur Buster about it and he explained something, although I didn't really understand.

Anyway:

It's highly recommended that you use the ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility for custom resolutions, and delete what you made in the Nvidia CP. Basically, the Nvidia control panel creates GPU SCALED resolutions, and even though they may SEEM to work correctly, some people have noticed very bizarre issues after using identical settings: like strange ghosting, dizziness, and the monitor "not feeling right". I think it was monitor-butt who mentioned this first.

I HIGHLY recommend you consider this.

When he recreated everything in ToastyX CRU, he said the dizziness went away and the monitor looked better.

See if that will help. (make sure you delete what you made in the NVCP first).
BTW at 120hz, use VT 1500, not VT 1502. VT 1502 causes strange issues randomly.

Also, when using the VT range 1497-1502, the maximum strobe PHASE allowed is 049 at 120hz, and 059 at 100hz. Going any higher will turn off the backlight unless you disable blur reduction (blind button pressing) and lower the strobe phase.

About the position of the ghosting:
The UFO's are moving left to right. So -->right is basically "advancing" in time (faster).
So if the ghosting image starts appearing to the RIGHT of the UFO's--which eventually becomes the new UFO, it means you are seeing the frame 1 frame in the "Future" or "1 frame ahead"--thus you are getting lower input lag by up to 1 frame.

If the ghost image starts appearing to the LEFT of the UFO and then becomes the new UFO, you are increasing input lag by 1 "frame". You can see this by increasing and lowering the "Strobe Phase" and notice that the "-->right" frame drops DOWNWARDS As you increase strobe phase higher, and eventually becomes the current frame.

tl;dr: Strobe Phase '000' has 1 frame HIGHER input lag than a high strobe phase (100 without a VT tweak, and "60 minus desired strobe DUTY" at 100hz, and 50 minus desired strobe DUTY at 120hz.

Someone made an excel 120hz chart for how strobe duty and strobe phase are related at 120hz with a VT tweak. It's in the XL2430T thread buried somewhere.

Actually I have a copy.

(Strobe Phase=Area):

Image

For 100hz, the SUM is 60, not 50, so "Strobe Phase" would start at 059 instead of 049.

Dakkon
Posts: 13
Joined: 13 Feb 2017, 08:04

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Dakkon » 15 Feb 2017, 21:13

My ghosting looks exactly like your last photo, Helban. In certain games, running at 60hz seems to eliminate ghosting completely, while anything higher on the same game has slight ghosting. Also some games seem to go ballistic with ghosting unless I have v-sync on. Another thing I've noticed is if I have anti aliasing on it introduces lots of constant microstutters, I'm not sure why this is, maybe unrelated to the monitor and is just more noticeable with it.

Certain games are quite hard to play at 60hz as the backlight strobing is more intense, but games like pillars of eternity like I've mentioned look fantastic. I've been doing a lot of testing :p

I can't remember if I tested the UFOs at 60hz, I'll try it tomorrow and get back to you.

I wish I could do something at 30hz though, as I play a lot of old games and some ps4 games are locked at 30hz. Does anyone have any tips for that? I tested my old monitor again, it's actually no more ghosting than I got on that, but this monitor is clearer so it's more noticeable. Buts also it's why I bought this monitor in the first place as that ghosting/blurryness was tiring for me.

I read at 30hz it doubles or quadruples frames (I read it a couple of days ago, can't quite remember), I'm guessing there's no way to fix this?

Edit - Also, Falkentyne. I ended up removing the vertical tweaks, as I didn't really notice any difference except the brightness increase. So just for the convenience of switching between Hz and not having to change the brightness really. But if you find any settings that make a noticeable difference Helban, I'd love to know know them!

Falkentyne
Posts: 2793
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Falkentyne » 15 Feb 2017, 21:48

You can't set 30hz on computer monitors on desktops.
It will be 60hz with scanlines and be vibrating. I don't know about consoles :(
60hz single strobe at "30 fps" will look identical to 60hz at 60fps double strobed.

Dakkon
Posts: 13
Joined: 13 Feb 2017, 08:04

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Dakkon » 16 Feb 2017, 07:13

Yeah I think that's why it ghosts still (or similar effect), so Bloodborne is locked at 30hz but the monitor still runs at 60hz so it doubles the frames that are being output at 30hz?

And I don't think there's a fix for this.

Helban
Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Feb 2017, 14:53

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Helban » 16 Feb 2017, 07:47

Thank you Falkentyne,

I'll give the ToastyX a try.
However I feel I do not understand what a strobe dusty or strobe phase really is (even after some lectures) and what and where/how i can impact it. I feel like I'd need a "simple-man" instructions for that, heh.

Also If i remember correctly, I saw strobe phase at 012 when seeing the service menu on the monitor - but no idea how do I change it, or if i should change it at all, or how will it affect what I already have.

Dakkon
Posts: 13
Joined: 13 Feb 2017, 08:04

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Dakkon » 16 Feb 2017, 08:19

I'll give a try but I'm a simple-man too :D

So from my experience strobe duty mainly effects the brightness, it does more than that but I can't see any difference other than brightness! Strobe phase shifts where the ghosting is, so if you open up the ufo test on alien invasion mode, then change the strobe phase, you'll see the worst of the ghosting shift up or down the screen.

Also I think the blurbusters utility does the same as the menu we can access, with strobe phase and duty.

Helban
Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Feb 2017, 14:53

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Helban » 16 Feb 2017, 09:18

Ooooooook..... just came back from work, turned computer on, and instantly noticed with day light that something is definetely not right, the 120hz refresh rate looked very odd, i had like 0,5 mm lines going up or down, cant tell, but moving, you know, similiar with the flickering at 60 hz, but very very very hard to notice. Something was not right the moment i looked, and i had to take a very close look at the desktop. Not sure what caused it, but I'll try the ToastyX a try now.

Also, checked service page, strobe duty is 012 and phase 000, single strobe is on

Helban
Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Feb 2017, 14:53

Re: Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

Post by Helban » 16 Feb 2017, 09:58

Update:

the ToastyX application doesnt seem to work at all, i change the VT to 1500, do the restart.exe, it flashes brighert, then goes black for a second or two, then presents me with a popup window saying "Graphic driver restarted" and the screen feels like before, darker. Also noticed that the windows logo flickers slightly when starting up the system...

I think I'll give up, nothing seems to work really..

EDIT:

I think this is the best it can get.... this is at 1920x1080 at 120hz with 1500 VT made using nvidia control panel.
Persistence at 2 ms, crosstalk at 0 using blurBusters Utility. I don't know what else I could do to improve it (take a close look at the top, then it goes down all looks similar

Edit2:
Actually 1350 VT seems a bit better looking at the top, less ghosting forwards it seems
Attachments
16776099_10208132791063998_1416755718_o.jpg
16776099_10208132791063998_1416755718_o.jpg (139.33 KiB) Viewed 8354 times

Post Reply