Benq XL2411 - Can't get rid of ghosting

[Dakkon]

Hi,

So I bought this new monitor, it looks great for 3D games, ghosting is not really noticible but it's there. But anything 2D has terrible ghosting.

I've tried lots of guides but nothing makes a difference. The closest I got was testing Pillars of Eternity with HDMI at 60hz with single strobe on, no ghosting at all, except strangely if I move in an up-left diagonal movement, every other direction was fine. On menus, especially with whites that single strobe hurts my eyes though so it's not ideal! Plus I'd want higher Hz. Oh and browsing windows/internet browser etc like normal gave worse ghosting instead.

Normally I'm using DVI-D and mostly tested at 120hz, as I hear that is what you need for most of these guides.
So far I've tried ToastyX's CRU and pixel clock patcher, I've tried custom resolutions from guides but none of them make a difference except making the screen brighter. I've tried toggling the blur reduction and AMA settings in the monitor menus, tried various variations in the service menu. Nothing gets me close to no ghosting like I see from other peoples screenshots from other benq monitors, except for the Pillars of Eternity example.

The strobe utility doesn't work for my model, but I hear XL2411 is basically the same as XL2411z. Is the difference that I can get into the service menu but the Z series can't?

Any help to get rid of this ghosting would be great! I'm really considering sending it back at the moment, but the 144hz is amazing, if I can get rid of the ghosting it would be fine.

I'll try and take some screenshots of PoE and the UFO test soon and edit them in.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Yes, XL2411Z and the Zowie XL2411 are essentially the same.
The ghosting during strobe mode on XL2411 series can definitely be cleared up (by 95%) through adjustments.

Two methods:
1. Service menu

OR
2. Strobe Utility.
-- Install older XL2411Z monitor INF driver (the kind that says "XL2411T" in Device Manager
-- Run Strobe Utility in Administrator mode.

First, you want to configure a Vertical Total of 1350 using ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility.
Next, you'll want to adjust strobe phase, until the ghosting is mostly off the top/bottom edges of the screen.
Then 120Hz strobing will look almost as good as 60Hz single-strobe.

[Dakkon]

Thanks! I didn't realise you could get the strobe utility working that way, I'll give it a go and follow your instructions!

I attached some photos, this is what it looks like currently.
The UFO one looks a bit worse for real. The PoE one might have been very slightly exaggerated by the camera, but that's still pretty much what it looks like. With some settings I've even had 3 circles around the characters.

[Dakkon]

Ok I tried that but no luck also the ufo test has become jittery now, but games aren't.

So adjusting the strobe phase makes the ghosting appear in different parts of the screen right? Because I've never experienced that, all that happens is the ghosting kind of phases left and right, goes behind or in front of the ufo. And it doesn't matter if I move the ufo center screen or towards the top or bottom, it's the exactly same effect.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Ok I tried that but no luck also the ufo test has become jittery now, but games aren't.

So adjusting the strobe phase makes the ghosting appear in different parts of the screen right? Because I've never experienced that, all that happens is the ghosting kind of phases left and right, goes behind or in front of the ufo. And it doesn't matter if I move the ufo center screen or towards the top or bottom, it's the exactly same effect.

You want to use TestUFO Alien Invasion in full screen mode, while you adjust strobe phase. It's much easier to see the ghosting "banding bar" position change. Watch this test pattern while you adjust the strobe phase.

Use ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility (or NVIDIA Custom Resolution) to create larger Vertical Total (VT1350). Using a larger Vertical Total will enlarge the blanking interval to more easily fit the banding bar offscreen (aka longer pauses between refresh cycles to let more LCD GtG to finish occuring in darkness between ULMB strobe-backlight flashes), so when you adjust strobe phase, the ghosting band (strobe crosstalk) will disappear offscreen longer before wrapping around to the opposite edge of the screen. Falkentyne in the BENQ forum is doing a good job of helping out on this kind of stuff.

There will always be some fainter ghosting that can't be fully fixed, but the most intense (problematic) ghosting will be fixed.

[Falkentyne]

After enabling blur reduction, overwrite the AMA setting by setting it to high AFTER enabling blur reduction. Even if it's already on high, move the slider back and forth to it again. This should reduce the INVERSE ghosting by 50%. ANY change to Brightness, strobe duty, strobe phase or single strobe or changing refresh rates will instantly revert the AMA back, however. This requires the firmware to be at V003 or newer.

Your picture of Path of Exile should NOT look like that. Your image looks like Single Strobe is set to OFF. Ghosting in Path of Exile (I've played that game) usually will manifest in a DARK black image shadow behind an item, NOT a double copy of an item.

If you were over displayport, you could try custom timings without getting an "incorrect cable" error, but over DVI, you will need to do a few things.

1) Download ToastyX Custom resolution utility.
2) download toastyX pixel clock patcher for AMD or Nvidia.
3) Run pixel clock patcher and patch it.
4) You need to avoid a conflict with a specific pixel clock that ONLY happens at 60hz due to the patcher. There are 2 ways that I know of to avoid this:

1) create a 60hz custom resolution over hdmi.
Use horizontal total 2876 and vertical total 1350 or 1360 or 1354. Don't worry about the porch and sync values. they should fill in.

After using these values, you should be able to set the strobe PHASE as high as 88, with a strobe duty of 10. (these values match, I don't have time to explain why. If you want slightly better blur reduction but a dimmer screen, use Strobe phase 90 and strobe duty 008. I use those for Dark Souls myself, but since I'm using displayport, I use a HT of 2080 and VT of 1354 at 60hz, since I don't need to use the pixel clock patcher.

2) Rename the patcher and add a -dl to the end of the file name, before the EXE. example: Atikmdag-patcher.exe to atikmdag-patcher-dl.exe ; this will prevent the patcher from patching the single link DVI limits. This MAY NOT help over HDMI. Then you can try HT: 2080 and VT: 1354 for a 60hz custom resolution and try that.

Remember to do the AMA toggle I mentioned for lower ghosting.

[Dakkon]

Thanks, that definitely helped me see the shift in phase. So I got the worse of it to the top of the screen, they all still have strong grey ghosts though, but in Pillars of Eternity it seems to make no difference at all, do you think that is just a game specific problem? I tried it again in 60hz (DVI this time) and there's literally no ghosting I can see, but it introduces jitter instead. Also the 60hz kills my eyes everywhere except the game, I'm in a dark area so maybe that's why. Even the game menu hurts.

I knew about that ama trick thanks, it does help a little, I make sure any change I make I quickly switch the ama to high.

Also I didn't mention, but I used the CRU tool to change the vertical resolution already, and reapplied it to make sure it was still on.

I'm starting to wonder if it's just how this monitor is, I still have time to send it back. Do you know if there are any monitors out there that have less ghosting than this one? For a similar price or a little more.

I can get no ghosting in 60hz and I hear people get it the same or close at higher hz, so I'm not sure why I'm not seeing the same results?

I really appreciate both of your help!

[Falkentyne]

Hi Dakkon.
What vertical total are you using at 60hz over *DVI*?

Make sure you set the Horizontal total to 2876 first.

or try renaming the patcher to -DL as I mentioned before if you want to use a default HT, because if you patch the single link DVI limits and use a VT 1350-1360 tweak, you will get a cable error (due to some complicated issue with the monitor expecting a dual link signal but getting a single link signal or something weird). if you do use the renamed patcher, try either HT 2080 or HT 2200.

I recommend a VT of 1354.
I found random issues with jitter at Chief's 1350. It's complicated but it's a problem with the scaler. The same random jitter happens at 100hz with VT 1350 but doesn't happen with 1354. Similar things happen with VT 1502 at 120hz but NOT VT 1500...

It's not exactly jitter. It's frameskipping I believe.
If you look at the backlight, you may see it 'pulsating' or pausing really fast.

I can't help with HDMI problems It looks like your monitor is double strobing over HDMI apparently. That seems to be a bug. I've rarely used HDMI on my XL2720Z, but I do remember single strobe working correctly over HDMI, although I did NOT attempt to use custom resolutions/VT tweaks over HDMI !

[Dakkon]

Whoops, somehow I only saw the first paragraph your previous post I'll try all those things you said, thanks! I did order a Display Port cable which should arrive tomorrow, so I will test it out on that too.

[Dakkon]

So I quickly tested PoE (I meant Pillars of Eternity btw, but similar graphic style) with 60hz, HT 2876 and VT 1354 and it had imporved, I still get a little jitter or frame drops randomly, but the ghosting (or lack of) is perfect, if I took a photo you wouldn't be able to tell I was moving the camera! I did do a clean install of the nvidia drivers at some point through my tweaking, I'll change them back to how I had them and see if that sorts out the frame drops.

I'll spend some time tomorrow tweaking settings and tell you the results, thanks for all the help so far

So it seems for 2D games, 60hz is the way to go? With 3D games I'm happy with 144hz with no tweaking. Is this the same for everyone, switching to 60hz for 2D? Also is it normal for the strobe to hurt your eyes with these settings? I think it's brighter areas, as it's unbearable to even look at my desktop, and the main menu of PoE with it's snow background is almost the same. My PS4 menu is kind of the same too but it's darker which helps a bit, but I can turn single strobe off to fix that, though in-game single strobe looks better, wish there was a quick way to turn it on or off!

Oh and that top-left corner thing still happens in PoE, I can scroll the camera any other direction, including other diagonals without ghosting, as soon as I move it in the top-left corner it's back like in the photo. Any reason that would happen? It's very strange I can totally live with that though for that game.