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G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 26 Sep 2022, 02:00
by daninthemix
G-sync + V-sync ON + NULL
In the above scenario, will the frame-rate always be capped below the refresh rate, even in DX12 / Vulkan games that ignore the MPRF setting? And will they do so only with G-Sync enabled (i.e. only in full-screen mode)?
Re: G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 26 Sep 2022, 02:10
by Kyouki
NULL to Ultra will auto-cap the frame rate, On will not.
Not sure what you mean by "MPRF setting", could you elaborate?
Re: G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 26 Sep 2022, 08:18
by jorimt
daninthemix wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 02:00
G-sync + V-sync ON + NULL
In the above scenario, will the frame-rate always be capped below the refresh rate, even in DX12 / Vulkan games that ignore the MPRF setting? And will they do so only with G-Sync enabled (i.e. only in full-screen mode)?
Whether the auto FPS limiter of G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC + Low Lantency Mode "Ultra" will engage is game-dependent. It also typically doesn't engage in DX12 or Vulkan.
I had previously done a test of some of my own games at one point to see when it would and would not engage:
G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC + LLM Ultra @165Hz
158 FPS Auto Limit:
– Amid Evil (DX11)
– Battlefield 1 (DX11)
– Control (DX11)
– Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (DX9)
– Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (DX11)
– Hollow Knight (DX11, Unity)
– Journey To The Savage Planet (DX11)
– Overwatch (DX11)
– Tom Clancy’s The Division 2 (DX11)
– Valorant (DX11)
– We Happy Few (DX11)
No 158 FPS Auto Limit:
– Battlefield 1 (DX12)
– Call of Duty Warzone (DX12)
– Control (DX12)
– Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (DX12)
– Doom 2016 (Vulkan & OpenGL 4.5)
– Doom Eternal (Vulkan)
– Journey To The Savage Planet (DX12)
– Outward (DX11)
– Tom Clancy’s The Division 2 (DX12)
– Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair (DX11, Unity)
Basically, it's not reliable as a global framerate limiter, since it doesn't always apply to every game.
You can achieve virtually the same thing globally with G-SYNC by using G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC + LLM "On" (note: LLM won't engage in all games, and not in DX12 or Vulkan at all) + manual NVCP Max Frame Rate FPS limit.
Re: G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 26 Sep 2022, 08:29
by daninthemix
jorimt wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 08:18
daninthemix wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 02:00
G-sync + V-sync ON + NULL
In the above scenario, will the frame-rate always be capped below the refresh rate, even in DX12 / Vulkan games that ignore the MPRF setting? And will they do so only with G-Sync enabled (i.e. only in full-screen mode)?
Whether the auto FPS limiter of G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC + Low Lantency Mode "Ultra" will engage is game-dependent. It also typically doesn't engage in DX12 or Vulkan.
I had previously done a test of some of my own games at one point to see when it would and would not engage:
G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC + LLM Ultra @165Hz
158 FPS Auto Limit:
– Amid Evil (DX11)
– Battlefield 1 (DX11)
– Control (DX11)
– Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (DX9)
– Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (DX11)
– Hollow Knight (DX11, Unity)
– Journey To The Savage Planet (DX11)
– Overwatch (DX11)
– Tom Clancy’s The Division 2 (DX11)
– Valorant (DX11)
– We Happy Few (DX11)
No 158 FPS Auto Limit:
– Battlefield 1 (DX12)
– Call of Duty Warzone (DX12)
– Control (DX12)
– Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (DX12)
– Doom 2016 (Vulkan & OpenGL 4.5)
– Doom Eternal (Vulkan)
– Journey To The Savage Planet (DX12)
– Outward (DX11)
– Tom Clancy’s The Division 2 (DX12)
– Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair (DX11, Unity)
Basically, it's not reliable as a global framerate limiter, since it doesn't always apply to every game.
You can achieve virtually the same thing globally with G-SYNC by using G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC + LLM "On" (note: LLM won't engage in all games, and not in DX12 or Vulkan at all) + manual NVCP Max Frame Rate FPS limit.
That's brilliant - thankyou. I will do as you suggest - LLM ON, 120 fps limit (144hz display).
Re: G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 26 Sep 2022, 08:38
by Kyouki
jorimt wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 08:18
-
Thanks for the insights. Interesting results. Had an ancient application auto-cap the fps and kinda assumed it would've worked better on modern titles but appears to work better on older APIs?
Re: G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 26 Sep 2022, 09:14
by jorimt
Kyouki wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 08:38
Thanks for the insights. Interesting results. Had an ancient application auto-cap the fps and kinda assumed it would've worked better on modern titles but appears to work better on older APIs?
Nvidia has never confirmed the auto FPS limiting conditions of NULL with G-SYNC.
From what I can gather, one trigger is that NVCP V-SYNC is used instead of in-game V-SYNC with G-SYNC (though this isn't always the case). A second trigger is LLM "Ultra" be used with G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC. A third trigger seems to be whether the given game/engine supports external manipulation of the render queue via LLM settings; DX12 and Vulkan do not (they manage the render queue on their own, regardless of what LLM is set to), so perhaps this is why even if the other conditions are fulfilled, the auto limit may not trigger for those APIs in most cases.
To sum up, NULL auto FPS limiting isn't guaranteed in every game, so it either needs to be verified by the user per app, or a manual limiting method should be used in its place.
Re: G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 27 Sep 2022, 02:21
by Kyouki
jorimt wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 09:14
Kyouki wrote: ↑26 Sep 2022, 08:38
Thanks for the insights. Interesting results. Had an ancient application auto-cap the fps and kinda assumed it would've worked better on modern titles but appears to work better on older APIs?
Nvidia has never confirmed the auto FPS limiting conditions of NULL with G-SYNC.
From what I can gather, one trigger is that NVCP V-SYNC is used instead of in-game V-SYNC with G-SYNC (though this isn't always the case). A second trigger is LLM "Ultra" be used with G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC. A third trigger seems to be whether the given game/engine supports external manipulation of the render queue via LLM settings; DX12 and Vulkan do not (they manage the render queue on their own, regardless of what LLM is set to), so perhaps this is why even if the other conditions are fulfilled, the auto limit may not trigger for those APIs in most cases.
To sum up, NULL auto FPS limiting isn't guaranteed in every game, so it either needs to be verified by the user per app, or a manual limiting method should be used in its place.
Interesting. I haven't noticed it much as I mostly applied a framerate limit on my own using either nvcp or rtss if I need a toggl-able solution.. Or try a few different ranges.
I had a suspect with VK at least handling things differently but didn't know DX12 handles things in a bit similar way. I usually have LLM On, Gsync on, Vsync on by the driver and either if I am sure on the fps cap I add it in nvcp for ease of use (don't have to run extra program, etc)
Maybe because it's also rare for me to run into instances where the GPU is being hammered hard enough to benefit from Ultra. Some games did behave a bit nicer in the mouse feel when Ultra was enabled but rarely always the case so just converted to the LLM On/fps cap in most cases where I use Gsync.
Thanks for the insight!
Re: G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 27 Sep 2022, 15:35
by roro13200
in a game supports null , better to set it to on or ultra? (with gsync)
Re: G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 27 Sep 2022, 16:09
by jorimt
roro13200 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2022, 15:35
in a game supports null , better to set it to on or ultra? (with gsync)
In a game that supports NULL and Reflex, use Reflex (it does the same things with G-SYNC, but better).
In a game that supports NULL but not Reflex use "Ultra" if you don't want to have to set a manual FPS limit, else use "On" with a manual limit with method of your choice (in-game, NVCP Max Frame Rate, RTSS, etc).
Re: G-Sync + NULL
Posted: 28 Sep 2022, 00:21
by daninthemix
jorimt wrote: ↑27 Sep 2022, 16:09
roro13200 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2022, 15:35
in a game supports null , better to set it to on or ultra? (with gsync)
In a game that supports NULL and Reflex, use Reflex (it does the same things with G-SYNC, but better).
In a game that supports NULL but not Reflex use "Ultra" if you don't want to have to set a manual FPS limit, else use "On" with a manual limit with method of your choice (in-game, NVCP Max Frame Rate, RTSS, etc).
Is it okay to have a global limit (of say 140fps) and then an in-game limit of say 60fps in a particular game? will 2 limits cause problems?
EDIT: and what if you have a global limit of 60fps, but some games have their own 60fps limit?