Simply put: 60fps on 60hz display is smoother

[ZTylerDurden]

After owning a gsync monitor for quite some time while also having my tv as a secondary display, I've realized that 60fps games play smoother with a 60hz display than a gsync display at 144hz. It's close in terms of fluidity but not as a good.

Not sure what you guys think but that's my perspective.

[lexlazootin]

Can you give a scenario were 60hz is better then 144hz Gsync? because I don't think I understand.

[Falkentyne]

Is gsync disabled in this test? Because if the framerate is locked to 60 fps, your refresh rate should be 60hz if gsync is enabled.

You can just set the gsync display to 60 hz too and turn off gsync. Same thing. However I don't know if you're talking about that or if you're talking about 144 hz with gsync disabled on a gsync display or not...so I'm guessing that's what you're talking about.

And yes, it's smoother because the framerate is in sync with the refresh rate (60hz=60 fps). That's been true since the CRT days. Even back then, 60 fps at 60hz was smoother than 60 fps at 160 hz. It's still a blurry mess, though.

On a CRT or a 60 hz strobed monitor (Benq Z Series with single strobe enabled), 60 hz at 60 fps is FAR smoother than 120hz at 60 fps or 144 hz at 60 fps. 120hz or 144 hz strobed at 60 fps is a stutter mess.

The problem is input lag.
You are going to have more input lag at 60 hz 60 fps than you will at 144 hz 60 fps, unless you take steps to remove it

[ZTylerDurden]

To clarify, I meant that with gsync enabled with the display set to either 144/120/60hz ,the 60fps capped game plays smoother on the native 60hz lcd than on the gsync monitor. This is the clear difference with Witcher 3 when capped at 60fps in-game. If I rotate the camera 360, although gsync does well, it's not superior to the native 60hz lcd TV.

I haven't yet tried to play with gsync off and with the refresh rate to 60hz on the monitor. That'd be interesting to check out.

[Sparky]

Well, yeah. v-sync at 60fps 60hz is smoother, because there's a lot of buffering that can absorb hitches in the game engine. The tradeoff is that you get a lot more input lag than g-sync.

[ZTylerDurden]

Well, yeah. v-sync at 60fps 60hz is smoother, because there's a lot of buffering that can absorb hitches in the game engine. The tradeoff is that you get a lot more input lag than g-sync.

That makes complete sense actually. Thanks for confirming. Is there an nvidia control panel setting to add some kinda buffer? I know that sounds counter intuitive but just wondering.

[Falkentyne]

Prerender Limit (I don't know the registry key for this) was what set the buffer for vsync on (didn't apply to off) in directX 9 on Geforce cards. I do NOT know if it applies to DX10 as I don't have one. I think DX10 games control this by the game. The lower the value, the less input lag with vsync, but values of "0" were removed for both AMD (FQS) and Nvidia long ago for windows 7

FlipQueueSize was the AMD equivalent of this. Still affects Directx9, although some games will stutter if it isn't set to 33 00 (reg_binary) or 3 (string), while other games are massively improved (Unreal tournament 2004, Elder scrolls oblivion) by 31 00 (1).

In oblivion, the mouse cursor is smooth in the main menu, with flip queue size set to 1, while at the default value of 3, it's massively stuttery. But The Witcher 2 and Path of Exile become a stutterfest at 1 or 2....
And FlipQueueSize seems to have no effect on DX10+ stuff.

[RealNC]

Is there an nvidia control panel setting to add some kinda buffer? I know that sounds counter intuitive but just wondering.

It's this setting:

http://i.imgur.com/VDxlXSs.png

But I don't know how it interacts with g-sync though.

Another way to do it, is to force triple buffering. You do that using the d3doverrider tool. It must be running in the background prior to starting the game. If Witcher 3 already does triple buffering though, then this will have no effect. (The "Triple Buffering" setting in the nvidia control panel doesn't work for D3D games, only for OpenGL.)

[Glide]

To clarify, I meant that with gsync enabled with the display set to either 144/120/60hz ,the 60fps capped game plays smoother on the native 60hz lcd than on the gsync monitor. This is the clear difference with Witcher 3 when capped at 60fps in-game. If I rotate the camera 360, although gsync does well, it's not superior to the native 60hz lcd TV.

I haven't yet tried to play with gsync off and with the refresh rate to 60hz on the monitor. That'd be interesting to check out.

What are you using to cap the game at 60 FPS? Perhaps that is causing The Witcher 3 to stutter?
I'm surprised that you would cap the framerate at all with a G-Sync display though. (unless you're capping at 142/3 FPS)

Is there an nvidia control panel setting to add some kinda buffer? I know that sounds counter intuitive but just wondering.

It's this setting: http://i.imgur.com/VDxlXSs.png

But I don't know how it interacts with g-sync though.

Another way to do it, is to force triple buffering. You do that using the d3doverrider tool. It must be running in the background prior to starting the game. If Witcher 3 already does triple buffering though, then this will have no effect. (The "Triple Buffering" setting in the nvidia control panel doesn't work for D3D games, only for OpenGL.)

It does nothing with V-Sync off. Are you running a very old version of the driver though?
The option of '0' was removed a long time ago, since it does not actually force it to zero, but actually allows the application to specify the flip queue size.
And if an application did not specify anything, it would use 3 by default. So you are better off setting it to 1 if latency is a concern.

Well, yeah. v-sync at 60fps 60hz is smoother, because there's a lot of buffering that can absorb hitches in the game engine. The tradeoff is that you get a lot more input lag than g-sync.

Isn't G-Sync supposed to side-step that entirely by locking the refresh rate to the framerate?

[Falkentyne]

To clarify, I meant that with gsync enabled with the display set to either 144/120/60hz ,the 60fps capped game plays smoother on the native 60hz lcd than on the gsync monitor. This is the clear difference with Witcher 3 when capped at 60fps in-game. If I rotate the camera 360, although gsync does well, it's not superior to the native 60hz lcd TV.

I haven't yet tried to play with gsync off and with the refresh rate to 60hz on the monitor. That'd be interesting to check out.

What are you using to cap the game at 60 FPS? Perhaps that is causing The Witcher 3 to stutter?
I'm surprised that you would cap the framerate at all with a G-Sync display though. (unless you're capping at 142/3 FPS)

Is there an nvidia control panel setting to add some kinda buffer? I know that sounds counter intuitive but just wondering.

It's this setting: http://i.imgur.com/VDxlXSs.png

But I don't know how it interacts with g-sync though.

Another way to do it, is to force triple buffering. You do that using the d3doverrider tool. It must be running in the background prior to starting the game. If Witcher 3 already does triple buffering though, then this will have no effect. (The "Triple Buffering" setting in the nvidia control panel doesn't work for D3D games, only for OpenGL.)

It does nothing with V-Sync off. Are you running a very old version of the driver though?
The option of '0' was removed a long time ago, since it does not actually force it to zero, but actually allows the application to specify the flip queue size.
And if an application did not specify anything, it would use 3 by default. So you are better off setting it to 1 if latency is a concern.

Well, yeah. v-sync at 60fps 60hz is smoother, because there's a lot of buffering that can absorb hitches in the game engine. The tradeoff is that you get a lot more input lag than g-sync.

Isn't G-Sync supposed to side-step that entirely by locking the refresh rate to the framerate?

Actually it DID force it to 0.
I remember this so long ago.
It forced it to 0 on AMD Cards too (their FlipQueueSize equivalent). In fact, their last windows XP driver version (I think a beta for the 7970) still allowed flip queue size to be set to 0, and it did work. (compared to the default of 3, there was much less input lag at 60hz vsync on in unreal tournament 2004, with supersampling AA, for example, even though you could still feel input lag. 100hz with flip queue size of 0 felt great, though).

That option was removed I'm guessing not long after the first windows 7 drivers.

And I know that 0 actually worked (back then), because a very very VERY long time ago, setting Prerender Limit (Hell, this may have been in windows 98 drivers) to 0 would cause Drakan: order of the flame, to hard lock with a windowed border, on load, while this didn't happen with Prerender limit of 1 or 2 (I think 2 was the default then), so you had to use 1.

And everyone liked using 0 (who knew about it) due to the big decrease in input lag it gave with vsync on.