Vizio M651d-A2R 120hz [HDTV overclocking success]

[trey31]

Vizio M651d passive 3D uniformity test alternating line polarized color test:




Line 1 is Magenta, Line 2 is Green, this pattern repeats over a 1920x1080 photo, which is then displayed on the TV. Any uniformity issues (cross-talk/ghosting) would be visible by seeing green bleeding into the Magenta while viewing through the right lens, or the Magenta bleeding into the Green while viewing through the left lens. This particular Vizio is <99% cross-talk free when viewing at optimal distance/angle. Approximately <75% cross-talk free even at the most extreme wide horizontal viewing angles. I did not test at wide vertical angles, I am not tall and the 65" panel is too big to ever really be viewed at a poor vertical angle, unless mounting flush above a fireplace/mantle without accounting for viewing angle. Also of note, without glasses the screen appears like a single dim white-seafoam green color. At the optimal viewing distance, I would rate 3D viewing as a solid 9.5/10. At extreme horizontal angle, its still a solid 8/10 or better. The closer you move to the screen, the more likely you will notice the horizontal half-resolution stripes in 3D mode. 100% non-issue in 2D mode. That being said, I am still making arrangements to replace this panel with another of the same model due to backlight clouding and horizontal banding (very noticeable in dark scenes) and vertical banding (less noticeable in-person).

backlight and banding issues on black background image:

backlight and banding issues on gray background image:




Overclock Update: I successfully modded the Vizio EDID to use 1920x1080@108hz as native resolution #1, and 1280x720@120hz as timing #2.

Just finished a new EDID mod/hack for it. About to test. This will be my final attempt to get a stable 1760x990@120hz EDID resolution. My reasoning is pretty simple really. 720@120hz works without a hitch (the TV even accepts 720@240hz, but skips every other frame), but the resolution is too small to be useful on a 65" TV. 1760x990 provides 52% more pixels/screen area than 720p. The difference between 1080p and 1760x990 is 2.07MP versus 1.74MP. Not too far off really, especially compared to the 0.92MP of 720p.


I'll post back with the results after testing.

[trey31]

After testing, I HIGHLY recommend that nobody else do this... unless you enjoy trying to boot into Safe Mode on Windows 8! 1920 and 720 clocks should be perfectly fine. But 1760x990 isn't going to happen as a native resolution with this Vizio. The good news is, as long as there is another 120hz resolution, a custom NVIDIA Control Panel custom resolution will work just fine.

Also, the above picture labeled "gray" is actually the black background on a long exposure. The gray I meant to upload is much more uniform than that one, but clearly shows the vertical banding that is harder to spot in the darker scenes. Either way, the levels on this particular set are unacceptable to me, particularly the banding issues. Those can be spotted on any large area of uniform color. Like zoomed in on image files in a photo editing program for instance. Or the ice while watching hockey. The backlight issue is only visible in dark scenes (still not acceptable), but banding can be seen even in bright scenes. I would guess that most people wouldn't spot it in bright scenes, but once you do you'll see it constantly.

[Chief Blur Buster]

trey31,

Very impressive tests for the Vizio. Thanks for doing this!
I almost missed this one, this test almost deserves its own separate thread with a title such as "Interesting Technique of Testing Passive 3D Uniformity" (perhaps even in the General forum). If you wish, I could do this for you.

[trey31]

trey31,

Very impressive tests for the Vizio. Thanks for doing this!
I almost missed this one, this test almost deserves its own separate thread with a title such as "Interesting Technique of Testing Passive 3D Uniformity" (perhaps even in the General forum). If you wish, I could do this for you.

Sure. I can post the test image I used too.

I did the test to check cross-talk of the FPR on this panel, but the reason for it is because NVIDIA 3D Vision (with EDID drivers of Interlaced panels) is giving an odd bug where the TV is scaling the 3D image, causing the FPR to be completely off and introducing massive cross-talk. However, with 3DTV Play it is perfect (as is SBS & Top/Bottom). Also cross-talk in Interlaced is vastly improved by viewing it at a vertical angle, so something is definitely off. I'm assuming it is a TV scaling issue since 3DTV Play and every other 3D Content is perfect, but I don't know for sure. The TV has no DVI or VGA inputs to test either. I'm going to try some adapters to see if that changes the way the HDMI signal is being sent. Trying Displayport to HDMI, and DVI-D 25pin to HDMI to see if that changes anything.

[trey31]

I'm assuming it is a TV scaling issue since 3DTV Play and every other 3D Content is perfect, but I don't know for sure.

I doubt the TV is to blame. I just put the TV in 3840x2160 mode, via NVIDIA Control Panel custom resolution, and in Windows Photo Viewer - Slide Show it showed a perfectly scaled 1080 image, still separating Green lines from Magenta. Color profile changed (because of WPV stretching the image 4x), but the colors did not bleed at all. This must be a 3D Vision/Driver/HDMI-EDID issue.

[trey31]

I'm assuming it is a TV scaling issue since 3DTV Play and every other 3D Content is perfect, but I don't know for sure.

I doubt the TV is to blame. I just put the TV in 3840x2160 mode, via NVIDIA Control Panel custom resolution, and in Windows Photo Viewer - Slide Show it showed a perfectly scaled 1080 image, still separating Green lines from Magenta. Color profile changed (because of WPV stretching the image 4x), but the colors did not bleed at all. This must be a 3D Vision/Driver/HDMI-EDID issue.

I tested a DisplayPort to HDMI passive adapter today. Works fine the TV displays everything very clearly in 2D. Also tried a DVI-D to HDMI adapter. It too displays just fine in 2D. However, outputting the DVI-D & DisplayPort signals from the GPU to the TV did not change the issue at all, for better or worse. Still the same massive cross-talk.

This has to be a 3D Vision issue? Or the TV just isn't checkerboard nor interlaced 3D compatible? (How that would even be possible on a passive 3D TV is beyond me. I get that checkerboard could conceivably been unsupported, but interlaced not working on an otherwise flawless passive 3D TV is just baffling)

I don't know how its possible that a passive display that is near flawless with almost no cross-talk in any other 3D source, can't display checkerboard (hybrid interlaced) nor regular interlaced through 3D Vision. The fact that 3DTV Play works perfectly is what is so baffling. Also the old Samsung looked great in checkerboard mode too, better than 3DTV Play due to the reduced refresh rate at 1080.

EDIT: Its not a 3D Vision issue. It has to be the TV shifting the image off the FPR pattern somehow.

[trey31]

Forgot to post these. This is the backlight bleed issue on TV #2. This one also displays the "remote" freezing issue reported on avsforum, but I believe it is board related. It has frozen on me when the remote wasn't even being used, so even though the remote can/does cause it, I believe it is a board issue that is the underlying cause. Also of note, I was using the same remote from TV #1 (which never experienced the "remote" TV freeze issue) on TV #2. Which pretty much sounds to me like the remotes themselves aren't the issue at all.

If these panels didn't do 120hz/108hz I wouldn't even be considering exchanging for a 3rd one... I'd have moved on to something else by now.

During the day:


At night:

[vaforsale10]

Hey guys
I want to Say thank you very much!!!!
I have a Vizio M551d-A2 3D LCD and was upset to find out that when I hooked my PC to it it would only go up to 60HZ.
I did some searching and ran across this posts.
I have duplicated all the settings you have on your Vizio on mine.
I am running it with a Intel I7 with a NVidia GTX 670.
with your help (reading what you did) I have made some awesome custom resolutions.
3200x1800 progressive 60hz
2560X1440 progressive 100hz
1920x1080 progressive 108hz
1760x990 progressive 120hz
1280x720 progressive 120hz
Now I am only using NVidia control panel and am running it to the TV with a HDMI cord(as it dose not have a PC plug)
My goal was to get 120hz at 1920x1080 but ran in to the same problems you did I think.
It seems like to me no matter what I put the timings at under custom setting as soon as the Pixel Clock hits 269.00 MHZ it just wont work.
I would love to hear back from you guys with any help.
I have read some sights that say it could be the HDMI cord????
Well again thanks a lot.
PS. my games (Batman Origins, Tomb Raider, ect.) look good at the higher resolutions, amazing!!

[Chief Blur Buster]

It seems like to me no matter what I put the timings at under custom setting as soon as the Pixel Clock hits 269.00 MHZ it just wont work.

Very interesting! Might be your HDTVs' dot clock limit.

You could try to unlock your graphics driver pixel clock (dotclock) using www.monitortests.com but the driver pixel clock limit is already set higher than that. So I think it's probably the pixel clock limit on the HDTV side.

Well again thanks a lot.

You're welcome!

[trey31]

Yea I haven't finished Arkham City yet so I haven't played Arkham Origins. But the first two Batman games, and TR, etc look great with overclocking + downsampling. Have you tried 2880x1620 yet? It runs at 88hz for me and everything looks great. Its also the resolution that produced the oddball frame-doubling on the frame skipping test. But with video images it looks great and feels very smooth. I'm curious if the board of your set also produces it? Maybe you could test and post a photo of it? Also, 2880x1620 is the halfway point between 1080p and 2160p and is kind of a natural res to try out, especially considering the 88hz is far superior to the 60hz of 1080p. 88hz and SMAA at 2880x1620 is a very nice balance between trying to achieve UHD rendering for aliasing & textures, and getting higher refresh rates at native panel resolutions. Not to step on toes here, I love 108hz at 1080p and 100hz at 1440p, but there is still a very noticeable difference between 88hz and 60hz, and the higher resolution and texture rendering at 2880x1620 is very appealing as well. Like I said, a nice balance between downsampling and overclocking refresh rate.

Which reminds me, I had 3200x1800 running at 65hz on both sets. You try it out there yet?

Also, how is your backlight bleed? Both sets of the 65" have ranged somewhere between "bad" and "the worse I've ever seen"... A good test is to make a bmp image 1920x1080, fill the entire image with black (#000000) and then fill in a 1x1 pixel with either red green or blue, then you save it and open it full-screen in Windows Picture Viewer's slideshow (you can pause it by right clicking if its in a folder with other photos). Anyway, it forces the panel to display the single pixel at full range without dimming the panel like most TVs do when there is no video input (black or blank screen). So you can really see what Alien or Charlie Rose will look like with extremely dark scenes, without actually having to plug the movie in or DVR'ing Charlie Rose...

Have you noticed any banding? I've had horizontal bad on dark scenes, and moderate amounts of vertical on grays/off-whites. Ice Hockey will likely be very noticeable during the Sochi games. As will half the other events I suspect. I can deal with it as long as the backlight is more uniform on set #3.

If its not, I'm going down to a 50"-ish panel of some sort and going with a 1080p 3D DLP projector from Optoma. Hopefully it overclocks to 120hz like the 800p 3D model that was posted on blurbusters did. I've read elsewhere that overclocks can cure DLP Rainbow Effect (which unfortunately I'm prone to spotting and then fixating on...), or at least lessen it greatly on some projectors (The increased refresh rate forces the color wheel to spin faster, eliminating the rainbow effect from the wheel, at least in theory). If that's the case, I'll take a 150" projected full HD screen and a 50" panel in the same room over the 65" for sure. Then again, if the 3rd set turns out to be decent, I'll likely grab the DLP as well anyway...