Problem with tv overclock [fixed]

Talk about overclocking displays at a higher refresh rate. This includes homebrew, 165Hz, QNIX, Catleap, Overlord Tempest, SEIKI displays, certain HDTVs, and other overclockable displays.
GTMoogle
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Joined: 14 Jun 2014, 06:21

Re: Problem with tv overclock [fixed]

Post by GTMoogle » 14 Jul 2014, 18:49

It sounded promising, but alas there was no perceptible difference. Same skipping as illustrated in blaze_itt's picture.

I even downloaded the custom rez utility but still nada.

The CRU thread mentioned a pixel click limit for single link dvi and HDMI, and I installed the patch. No change.

Would it help to get a better HDMI cable? I just have an amazon basics cable, I would assume they're all the same.

Not a lot of input options on the set, would dvi converted to HDMI help? Display port?

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trey31
Posts: 146
Joined: 23 Dec 2013, 19:17

Re: Problem with tv overclock [fixed]

Post by trey31 » 17 Jul 2014, 10:06

GTMoogle wrote:It sounded promising, but alas there was no perceptible difference. Same skipping as illustrated in blaze_itt's picture.

I even downloaded the custom rez utility but still nada.

The CRU thread mentioned a pixel click limit for single link dvi and HDMI, and I installed the patch. No change.

Would it help to get a better HDMI cable? I just have an amazon basics cable, I would assume they're all the same.

Not a lot of input options on the set, would dvi converted to HDMI help? Display port?
I have everything from the amazon basics high-speed hdmi cables to monoprice to an expensive monster cable. If it's a high-speed hdmi cable, then its the same as all the others.

It sounds like the set is frame skipping because it can't display 120hz. The fact that the photo shows every other frame dropped is telling me it is probably capable of only displaying 60hz. Now before we go with that conclusion indefinitely, you should consider testing a couple of other refresh rates. Start with 70hz and do the photo test. If frames are dropped, then the max is most likely 60hz. If it doesn't drop frames, test higher refresh rates. I'd probably go to 80hz then 90hz and so on until the photos show frame skipping.

On the other side of the coin, even if the display doesn't properly display higher refresh rates, all is not lost. From my experience playing a couple of older games I can get ridiculous frame rates on with v-sync turned off, I tested 240hz at 720p and I think 1440x810 at 240hz (knowing that any refresh over 120.00hz skips on the M651d) with a few games and the complete lack of input lag was very cool to experience. As far as blurring is concerned, the screen was still refreshing at 120hz, but there was a perceivable difference of input lag between 240hz and 120hz. Now I'm not saying you should set up custom resolutions at 240hz if these displays are only capable of accurately displaying 60hz, there is a high probability that you would encounter a lot of screen tearing while displaying only 60 out of 240 frames, but you could try playing games at 120hz and see if you notice the significant reduction in input lag between that and 60hz. If so, and if screen tearing is either not present or at least not excessive, you may want to game at 120hz anyway. Sure the display is only showing 60 frames out of every 120, but if it looks comparable to 60hz but has the significant decrease in input lag that goes along with 120hz then maybe that's the route to go.

Additionally, you may look into downsampling higher resolutions and match up one that looks good and still displays at 60hz. 2880x1620 or 3200x1800 look fantastic in regards to texture rendering and lighting detail, not to mention the AA benefits of downsampling. So even if the displays are stuck at 60hz, there are tweaks you can make to decrease input lag or increase rendering detail, or even both like with the 1440p @ 100hz custom resolution mentioned earlier.

derschniffles
Posts: 8
Joined: 10 May 2014, 11:29

Re: Problem with tv overclock [fixed]

Post by derschniffles » 19 Jul 2014, 17:29

Sorry gents, didnt come back for a while ;)

After the firmware update to the tv, i have had very little trouble from here on out. The frame skipping test works flawlessly for me as well as all the others. You might want to try 119 or 118 and just work down from there until you find one that works. Im using a $10 best buy Dnynex HDMI cable so......

*NOTE* btw I posted on toastyx's forum (dev of CRU) and he gave me a bitstream.dat file to import into the extension block of cru that re-enabled my receiver to 5.1 with full support (instead of 2 channel stereo that the basicaudio.dat file gives). So now im using CRU with full reciever action! In case anyone is trying to use CRU and use hdmi audio to a receiver, here is the page where he posted a link:

http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Threa ... RU?page=95

derschniffles
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Joined: 10 May 2014, 11:29

Re: Problem with tv overclock [fixed]

Post by derschniffles » 19 Jul 2014, 17:39

blaze_itt wrote:
GTMoogle wrote:Hey, I have an E550i-B2 and nvidia and I've spent all morning with the UFO frame skipping test showing me every other block no matter what settings I tweak in the custom resolution.

Can you give me any advice? Timings, TV settings, anything.

When I switch it to 120hz, the TV recognizes something is different and doesn't show the settings for stuff like backlight zones, sharpness, etc, so it seems like it should be working. But I only get every other frame.

720p@120hz also skips down to 60 hz.
I have this tv as well and also get frame skipping at 120hz :(. were you able to get it to work fine OP?

Image
Yes, everything works perfectly on my end now *see above

and yes, when you switch to 120hz, all that "extra" stuff is not available to you. And instead of saying 1080p when you switch inputs, it will say 1920x1080. Also, if you look on the tv menu, there is an option called settings, and then system information. If you look in there, it will show your refresh rate that the tv is reporting. When im at 60hz it shows it at .60 and 120hz is shown as 1.20. I used the nvidia control panel before using CRU to test what refresh rates and resolutions would work first. I just used automatic timings and put in 120hz and hit test....worked fine.

Here is a pic before I used CRU to show the settings I used:
Image

and here is what it shows after CRU in my control panel (note it says 119, just like windows showing 59hz instead of 60hz.)
Image

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trey31
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Re: Problem with tv overclock [fixed]

Post by trey31 » 19 Jul 2014, 19:37

The M651d still has all the Advanced Options at 119.878hz, but not at 120hz or 108hz, etc.

Also I have edited numerous inf's with moninfo and cru and get 120hz, 109hz, 108hz, 100hz, 96hz, 60hz, 59hz, 50hz, 30hz, 29hz, 24hz, and 23hz listed in the HDTV and Computer resolutions (some in PC, some in HDTV, none in both). Initially setting the 60hz, 30hz, and 24hz are all wrong though for synchronization; 59hz, 29hz, and 23hz are the proper refresh rates to set for video content. It is weird though, after setting 59hz it shows up that 60hz is what was selected; same for 30hz and 24hz. But there is micro-stutter present when initially setting 60/30/24 but not with 59/29/23 etc. Probably just something I broke myself with cru or moninfo.

derschniffles
Posts: 8
Joined: 10 May 2014, 11:29

Re: Problem with tv overclock [fixed]

Post by derschniffles » 20 Jul 2014, 01:28

You know, considering that 2 other people with the same tv cant get this to work, I looked a little more into the whole frame pacing thing and what do you know, just because it says valid does not mean it isnt frameskipping. It was starring at me the whole time. So i took a picture and sure enough, I get frame skipping. Well this really blows....What now?

derschniffles
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Joined: 10 May 2014, 11:29

Re: Problem with tv overclock [fixed]

Post by derschniffles » 20 Jul 2014, 02:56

So what exactly does it mean if you get frame skipping? That its not actually running at 120hz? Then why do I have less motion blur? and why is my input lag severely reduced much to my joy? What exactly is it doing?

To add to this, let me be more specific.

I did a bunch of testing with a friend to make sure I wasnt making anything up (placebo, etc). So I ran a few games switching between 60hz and 120hz to see and feel a difference. I tested a game that gets 120fps easily (Rise of the Triad) and then to make sure it just wasnt the increase in fps, i tested a game that has a hard time going over 60-70 (Crysis 3 maxed). At 60hz, the input lag from vsync and the blur was very noticable for me, having been using 120hz for a while. My friend Blake thought it looked normal and felt the mouse and played for a bit. I then switched to 120hz and the reduction in motion blur was very noticable and cut the input lag way down, even Blake noticed it. He said it was a huge difference.

So what is going on? I get less blurring, less input lag and up to 120fps when using vsync (which i force on, have to have it) but im not actually running 120hz? How does that work? And say I didnt have frameskipping, would i notice it? Im a little confused here.


*Edit/thought*
Is it possible that when on the desktop, its not running 120hz (maybe due to something like the video card running 2d clocks or something) and when it switches over to games that something changes? I do notice that when on the desktop or running the ufo test that it doesent really look any different. The 120 fps ufo blurs the same as the 60 fps ufo although it is a little farther ahead of the 60 fps ufo. Web scrolling is still blurry too. But when I run a game, its a HUGE difference.

Just a thought.

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trey31
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Re: Problem with tv overclock [fixed]

Post by trey31 » 21 Jul 2014, 12:40

derschniffles wrote:So what exactly does it mean if you get frame skipping? That its not actually running at 120hz? ... What exactly is it doing?
Frame-skipping means that, while your monitor is reporting 120hz (or any refresh rate above its displayable limit) and accepting the 120hz input, it is dropping every frame that the display panel cannot display. Basically it displays 60hz, but accepts the signal of 120hz. There are several possible reasons for this; one possible explanation is that the board(s) and tcon of these televisions are sourced from a parts bin that the manufacturer also uses for TVs that do display and process 120hz input signals, but the display panels themselves are not capable of displaying the 120hz refresh rate.

derschniffles wrote:Then why do I have less motion blur? and why is my input lag severely reduced much to my joy?
To be honest, any reduction in blur is probably a placebo effect due to the significant reduction of input lag. Another explanation is that the panel may be getting compressed color sub-sampling, like 4:2:0, at the default 60hz 1080p refresh rate, whereas the altered timings of a 1920x1080 120hz CRU or NVIDIA resolution may allow for uncompressed 4:4:4 color, which displays a slightly more accurate and crisper image. I can easily see the difference between them on the M651d after doing the display tests for it; but while it is noticeable to me now, I did not notice a difference in color space before doing the tests. YMMV on whether or not compressed color space is noticeable to you.

derschniffles wrote:So what is going on? I get less blurring, less input lag and up to 120fps when using vsync (which i force on, have to have it) but im not actually running 120hz? How does that work? And say I didnt have frameskipping, would i notice it? Im a little confused here.
The reduction of input lag is noticeable because the TV is accepting the 120hz input, regardless of whether or not it displays all 120 frames per second.

derschniffles wrote:Is it possible that when on the desktop, its not running 120hz (maybe due to something like the video card running 2d clocks or something) and when it switches over to games that something changes?
Not really. If it doesn't display 120hz on the desktop, or in Linux for example, then it won't when running DirectX/Direct3D/OpenGL/Wine/etc.

derschniffles wrote:I do notice that when on the desktop or running the ufo test that it doesent really look any different. The 120 fps ufo blurs the same as the 60 fps ufo although it is a little farther ahead of the 60 fps ufo.
120hz on the M651d has significant blur reduction and appears much smoother on the UFO test. If 120hz appears to be the same as 60hz, then it is. This also occurs on the M651d at 240hz vs 120hz on the UFO test in chrome browser; even though 240hz is frame skipping on the M651d, there is still a noticeable decrease in input lag at 240hz vs 120hz. If I was going to play a game at 720p on the M651d, I would choose 240hz 720p for the decreased input lag over 120hz 720p.

Even if a panel only displays 60hz at a 120hz input (frame-skipping), it is still a better choice to use a 120hz refresh rate for the decreased input lag.

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