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Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Everything about input lag. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more!

Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Postby royal10march » 02 Jun 2017, 14:50

I've read through too many opinions online and I can't seem to come to a conclusion. I went through your forums and people didn't seem to discuss whether or not it does introduce input lag except people warning others to not use it set to OFF. The issue is that I feel my mouse being more responsive when it's on OFF but the default setting is on HIGH and everyone keeps saying that I should use HIGH or premium. Can anyone please confirm which it is that causes the least amount of input lag? I've been struggling with this, turning through the options for a while now as I play CS:GO at a very competitive level and everything adds up.

TL:DR; I don't mind image quality or blurring, which option for BENQ's AMA would give me the least input lag? OFF, HIGH OR PREMIUM?
Thanks a million!
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Re: Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Postby Q83Ia7ta » 04 Jun 2017, 17:31

> BENQ's AMA option add input lag?
No
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Re: Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Postby royal10march » 04 Jun 2017, 21:35

Q83Ia7ta wrote:> BENQ's AMA option add input lag?
No


Ok, thank you. In that case, could you tell me if it is not a lot of trouble for why - why my mouse feels different between the various options? I switch to off and I can hit awp flicks wayy easier compared to it being on high or premium. I've done a blind test on this.
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Re: Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Postby RealNC » 04 Jun 2017, 22:19

https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopi ... =10&t=2771

The impact on latency is minimal. To determine the best setting for your case, you can go here:

http://www.testufo.com/#test=ghosting

You can change the AMA setting to whatever produces the clearest motion in the above test.
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Re: Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Postby Q83Ia7ta » 05 Jun 2017, 11:35

royal10march wrote:Ok, thank you. In that case, could you tell me if it is not a lot of trouble for why - why my mouse feels different between the various options? I switch to off and I can hit awp flicks wayy easier compared to it being on high or premium. I've done a blind test on this.

Then something wrong with you or monitor. May be your monitor is defective.
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Re: Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Postby royal10march » 05 Jun 2017, 19:59

Q83Ia7ta wrote:
royal10march wrote:Ok, thank you. In that case, could you tell me if it is not a lot of trouble for why - why my mouse feels different between the various options? I switch to off and I can hit awp flicks wayy easier compared to it being on high or premium. I've done a blind test on this.

Then something wrong with you or monitor. May be your monitor is defective.


I hope not as it's definitely not the monitor, I found out this issue first when I had a 60hz benq monitor before I bought the 144hz. Even with the 60hz, I was able to aim better with AMA switched to OFF rather than ON ( That monitor only had on and off ). I experienced the same when I switched over to the 144hz monitor. I'm guessing it's just me being used to one and not the other and therefore having an issue trying to adapt to the different setting. I'll force AMA to premium for a month and then switch back and see.
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Re: Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Postby royal10march » 05 Jun 2017, 20:00

RealNC wrote:https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2771

The impact on latency is minimal. To determine the best setting for your case, you can go here:

http://www.testufo.com/#test=ghosting

You can change the AMA setting to whatever produces the clearest motion in the above test.


Thank you, I've set it to premium as it seem smoother and quicker.
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Re: Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Postby mjfame » 07 Aug 2017, 00:41

RealNC wrote:https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2771

The impact on latency is minimal. To determine the best setting for your case, you can go here:

http://www.testufo.com/#test=ghosting

You can change the AMA setting to whatever produces the clearest motion in the above test.


I, definitely, understand this logic and I just wanted to provide a theory, of my own, that I have conjured through my own experiences with my BenQ monitor -over the years.

For most mid-to-fast paced point and shoot titles with quick-to-moderate time-to-kill [TTK] (such as your CODs, Battlefields, DOOM, etc.) the AMA motion on High or Premium provides most beneficial, however, whenever I go back to play long TTK strafe/shifty Halo games (such as halo 1, 2, 3 on the master Chief Collection) it is much easier to track my target with AMA completely OFF. Also, Halo is somewhat slower-paced so the game doesn't look as bad with AMA OFF as faster-paced games do. In fact, it looks fine.

I will even go as far as to say that there very well COULD be and most likely is a trace amount of processing added with AMA options enabled.

I believe, that the real issue that results from enabling AMA is that it messes with the frame-timing accuracy. (which, i would assume, is a type of latency)

It's most-noticeable with AMA set to premium -perhaps this is due to the extra processor load vs High AMA. My Benq Model# RL2455HM handles High AMA much better than premium and seems to be the more balanced setting. (which has been widely published and, I believe, most of us already know) Even so, with AMA enabled, aiming feels inconsistent / synchronized , 1:1 / unnatural , smooth -or what have you. (premium is the most noticeable)

Disabling AMA , Enabling AMA High / Premium is always going to come down to personal preference. (specific to the scenario, at hand)
I believe that High sharpness helps when AMA is off and AMA enabled seems to run better with minimal sharpness.


I am an older gamer who gamed on CRT technology for the majority of my life. I've never been, completely, happy with the lack of fluidity, motion-blurring / trailing , signal delay that is associated with digital displays and I, highly, doubt that I will ever prefer digital displays over analog for competitive gaming. There's others out there, like me, who understand this because they, too, are in the same boat. Most people, for whatever reason, are unable to perceive the differences or, simply, are unwilling to admit to it, and, that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own..

I have noticed that AMA is in discussion around the WWW but the information that is being exchanged seems to be, incredibly, generic & misleading -to no fault of anyone's other than there's a lack of information in regards to AMA (other than blur-testing / pixel response). The entire topic is a gray area, due to manufacturers unwillingness to, openly, discuss the logic behind it and due to the lack of reliable methods to measure these inconsistencies. The main reason for providing this delayed response (unintentional pun) was to provide a different insight, regarding AMA, its effect, & the way that it has affected myself, in a manner that isn't being discussed. None of which is proven to be factual.. Completely off of 'feel' from a well-seasoned gamer who is, ridiculously, hyper-sensitive to fluctuations in latency, timings etc. Take that for what it's worth and have a great day.
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Re: Does BENQ's AMA option add input lag?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 08 Aug 2017, 01:11

mjfame wrote:I will even go as far as to say that there very well COULD be and most likely is a trace amount of processing added with AMA options enabled.

Welcome to Blur Busters Forums!

Two things:

(1) Lag of different GtG color pairs - this is affected by overdrive setting

There is a different kind of lag: Lag of LCD GtG -- not circuit board (motherboard) signal processing side.
-- Some GtG color pairs are faster than others.
-- Which means some color transitions have less input lag than others
-- Which means you may have different "feel" of lagging during different kinds of scenery.
-- AMA changes this form of lag, and some of the GtG pairs (out of 256x256 color pairs) will have more asymmetric lag behaviors relative to other GtG color pairs.
-- Motion clarity of the trailing-edge ghosting versus leading-edge ghosting can affect human perceptions of input lag -- where the blur trail begins/ends can make things look more laggy (see http://www.testufo.com/blackframes#count=3 as an example)

As far as I know (at least on my Benq XL2411Z) the signal processing delay is the same for AMA High/Normal/Low. Things might be different for the RL2455HM, but the lag change of AMA seems to be majorly caused by GtG differences / asymmetries rather than motherboard/signal processing.

From my measuring equipment, the lag asymmetries of various overdrive settings (e.g. AMA) seems to be coming from GtG pixel transition behaviours during overdrive modes (at least on the Z series, anyway) -- rather than the monitor motherboard itself (that said, I have not measured the RL2455HM)... With a photodiode oscilloscope, a tester usually measures to GtG50% midpoint (halfway pixel transition) for measuring input lag. Overdrive adjustments can affect how quickly or slowly a pixel hits GtG50% (long before the pixel does overshooting/rippling -- aka ghosting/coronas).

Lag asymmetry from GtG is much worse on VA panels than with TN panels, especially for transitions between various dark colors. One can be unusually sensitive to lag asymmetry behaviors. Even TN panels aren't perfect, but one workaround is to use a higher-Hz panel instead (e.g. 120Hz or 240Hz LCDs). The extra refresh rates create a huge improvements lag-consistency on LCD displays, especially 240Hz eSports monitors. This is useful for people unusually sensitive to LCD lag behaviors.

(2) Lag consistency is much better at higher refresh rates

Have you ever tried a >60Hz LCD display, given your mention of the RL2455HM? The higher the refresh rate, the better the lag consistency is.

Also -- if you tried strobing -- one should know strobing + VSYNC OFF creates lag asymmetries (top vs bottom). So Strobing works best with VSYNC ON motion if you want lag symmetry (top vs bottom). However, for VSYNC OFF, you want non-strobed for lag symmetry for top vs bottom screen edge. And for lowest lag + VSYNC OFF, you definitely want to try out the new 240Hz monitors on the market.

At 60Hz, lag variances is worse:

Image

But at 240Hz, lag variances is much tighter (smaller spread between Min/Avg/Max):

Image

This is from the GSYNC 101 lag tests, but we also tested VSYNC OFF too, as you noticed...

So for people like you, sensitive to lag variances (spreads between min/avg/max), I fully highly recommend 240Hz instead of your RL2455HM which is only a 60Hz monitor.

Understandably, lag variances can be caused by many things, not just display (overdrive too, mouse too, engine too).

This is a full button-to-pixels input lag measurement, catching input lag variances (min/max/avg) of absolutely everything in the entire, whole chain, display included -- and it is quite clear that 240 Hz has far less lag variances (min/max/avg) versus 60 Hz -- by a massive margin, assuming you have the GPU to keep up the frame rates. And, even in an apples-versus-apples frame rate (VSYNC OFF 1000fps CS:GO), doing 240Hz has far better lag consistency (min/max/avg) than 60Hz.

See how tight the input lag spread between min-versus-max, is at 240Hz versus 60Hz. This is great for lag-variance-sensitive people. Currently, there are now six 240 Hz monitors on the market.

That said, it is indeed hard to beat CRT in their zero-lag ability (via lagless analog VGA connection). CRT reigns king at many things, so my recommendation is simply as a replacement for the RL2455HM LCD -- any 60Hz LCD will never have the "lag consistency" (tight min/max/avg spread) of any 240 Hz LCD.
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