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Overdrive help please!

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Overdrive help please!

Postby kieran1203 » 12 Aug 2017, 13:03

I did the ghosting test and tried different overdrive settings on my 144hz monitor AOC G2460F,

I play CSGO and like everyone want everything as clear as possible,

My question is what should I be doing with overdrive?

off - the alien has a green outline outside the yellow,

weak - very small green line and a small corona,

light - pretty small green line now, slighly bigger corona

medium - there is now no green trail, instead a blue one!?

strong - bigger blue trail, and again slightly bigger corona?

Really not sure if any is ideal??, or what the tradeoffs of using each are? I would just like to use what is optimum for a game like CSGO

Cheers
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[TestUFO] Overdrive help please!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 12 Aug 2017, 13:25

kieran1203 wrote:I did the ghosting test and tried different overdrive settings on my 144hz monitor AOC G2460F,

I play CSGO and like everyone want everything as clear as possible,

My question is what should I be doing with overdrive?

off - the alien has a green outline outside the yellow,

weak - very small green line and a small corona,

light - pretty small green line now, slighly bigger corona

medium - there is now no green trail, instead a blue one!?

strong - bigger blue trail, and again slightly bigger corona?

Really not sure if any is ideal??, or what the tradeoffs of using each are? I would just like to use what is optimum for a game like CSGO

Cheers


AOC isn't known for the best possible overdrive settings, so it's a tradeoff between ghostbehind effects and ghostahead effects.

Your best compromise is probably "light" or maybe "medium", but it's tough to say.

You'll want to balance the effect in the TestUFO ghosting test as you did.



Also test your settings on http://www.testufo.com/photo to see how things looks better / looks worse.

In some occasions, maximum overdrive (extreme) is sometimes preferred by certain CS:GO players -- because ghosting artifacts sometimes may highlight enemies better (amplified ghosting as an early alert). As a sort of a "legal cheat", much like gamma boosting features (brightening the darks). For other players, it's extremely distracting, hurts image quality, can degrade gameplay for many.

The goldilocks setting can be difficult on some screens, and is a user preference.

Related BlurBusters.com articles:
- LCD Motion Artifacts
- LCD Overdrive Artifacts
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Re: Overdrive help please!

Postby Falkentyne » 12 Aug 2017, 17:05

kieran1203 wrote:I did the ghosting test and tried different overdrive settings on my 144hz monitor AOC G2460F,

I play CSGO and like everyone want everything as clear as possible,

My question is what should I be doing with overdrive?

off - the alien has a green outline outside the yellow,

weak - very small green line and a small corona,

light - pretty small green line now, slighly bigger corona

medium - there is now no green trail, instead a blue one!?

strong - bigger blue trail, and again slightly bigger corona?

Really not sure if any is ideal??, or what the tradeoffs of using each are? I would just like to use what is optimum for a game like CSGO

Cheers


Master Chief already wrote a good explanation, but please keep in mind that the "green" you see with weak and light is simply a fainter yellow (not green), with the color bias changed from the cyan background, due to the way ghosting works. Change the background to black/grey/white or middle greys, and you'll see the green trail turn yellow and look far more like you would expect it to look. (this is low to no RTA artifacts, from weak overdrive). Basically you see a dimmer copy of the UFO. This will happen without any overdrive.

Then notice what happens if you change the background to red and blue.

As you increase overdrive, the ghost copy of the UFO will change tone, and may become less obvious or even almost disappear. On a monitor with a strongly balanced overdrive, that trail can all but vanish, even on different colored backgrounds, then you know you are dealing with a quality overdrive circuit. Many times, however, you simply get bad overshoot on certain backgrounds.

Some monitors (HELLO, BENQ) push the overdrive circuit hard to try to give you the BEST performance on white backgrounds with dark objects, since these take the longest time to do transitions on, so you wind up with a nice looking image and low artifacts, while then on a darker background, you get intense, ugly purple inverse corona ghosts. On a properly made overdrive circuit that was adaptable and balanced, you would get minor coronas on grey and none on white.
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Re: Overdrive help please!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 12 Aug 2017, 17:09

Falkentyne wrote:Master Chief already wrote a good explanation, but please keep in mind that the "green" you see with weak and light is simply a fainter yellow (not green), with the color bias changed from the cyan background. Change the background to black/grey/white or middle greys, and you'll see the green trail turn yellow and look far more like you would expect it to look. (this is low to no RTA artifacts, from weak overdrive). Basically you see a dimmer copy of the UFO.

Yes, this is true -- here's a photo of the "green" ghost hehind the yellow domes.

Image

See the green ghost behind the dome. Many monitors don't have good enough overdrive to eliminate this green ghost while simultaneously keeping coronas away.

Some monitors erase this very well with only extremely faint artifacts -- such as the 240Hz Acer Predator XB252Q, which during good neutral overdrive ("NORMAL") has almost no ghosting and coronas. At 240fps@240Hz on this model of monitor -- you actually are able to get 50% less motion blur than 120Hz, and 75% less motion blur than 60Hz.

Image

Please note, not all 240Hz monitors allow you to have 50% less motion blur than a 120Hz monitor. From TFTCentral's review, two different 240Hz monitors can have very significant difference in motion clarity, due to better neutral overdrive.
Image

One big advantage for ghosting-sensitive people, is that we've found that at 240Hz -- the extra rapid refresh cycle passes also can cleans up ghosting more quickly -- but only if the overdrive is properly tuned to 240Hz, as the image above attests. So LCD GtG pixel transition side effects are also cleaned up quicker with well-tuned 240Hz ovedrive. At least when it comes to this particular "1ms GtG" TN panel.

I also have a Viewsonic XG2530 here too [will be tested too], and the quality is similar too.
All were far clearer than the overdrive implementation in AOC's first 240Hz monitor;

- ASUS ROG PG258Q
- Acer Predator XB252Q
- Viewsonic XG2530

These are relatively ghost-free 240Hz monitors. I suspect the Benq/Zowie XL2540 and the XL2546 (with strobing turned off) is similar, but we don't have access to these monitors at the moment.

Pixel transition speed (GtG) limitations will also play a huge role. IPS motion clarity seems to max out at roughly ~120Hz (very little difference going to 165Hz). But TN motion clarity keeps going up (Even beyond 240Hz...), with the best 240Hz TN LCD having half the motion blur of the best 120Hz TN LCD. Lately, TN panels has been very friendly to technological progress in overdrive, apparently -- even though improved overdrive developments tend to lag behind refresh rate developments.

Now, fixing ghosting in an existing desktop monitor that has major ghosting problems, that's another story -- sometimes it just is a tough compromise (a game of tradeoffs between ghosting and coronas).
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Re: [TestUFO] Overdrive help please!

Postby kieran1203 » 12 Aug 2017, 19:05

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
kieran1203 wrote:I did the ghosting test and tried different overdrive settings on my 144hz monitor AOC G2460F,

I play CSGO and like everyone want everything as clear as possible,

My question is what should I be doing with overdrive?

off - the alien has a green outline outside the yellow,

weak - very small green line and a small corona,

light - pretty small green line now, slighly bigger corona

medium - there is now no green trail, instead a blue one!?

strong - bigger blue trail, and again slightly bigger corona?

Really not sure if any is ideal??, or what the tradeoffs of using each are? I would just like to use what is optimum for a game like CSGO

Cheers


AOC isn't known for the best possible overdrive settings, so it's a tradeoff between ghostbehind effects and ghostahead effects.

Your best compromise is probably "light" or maybe "medium", but it's tough to say.

You'll want to balance the effect in the TestUFO ghosting test as you did.

Also test your settings on http://www.testufo.com/photo to see how things looks better / looks worse.

In some occasions, maximum overdrive (extreme) is sometimes preferred by certain CS:GO players -- because ghosting artifacts sometimes may highlight enemies better (amplified ghosting as an early alert). As a sort of a "legal cheat", much like gamma boosting features (brightening the darks). For other players, it's extremely distracting, hurts image quality, can degrade gameplay for many.

The goldilocks setting can be difficult on some screens, and is a user preference.

Related BlurBusters.com articles:
- LCD Motion Artifacts
- LCD Overdrive Artifacts


Thanks a lot for the responses, guess I will go with light looks about the best for me, does overdrive add input lag? ive tried googling but not much is coming up so sorry if its a dumb question,

My monitor has none of the fancy blur reduction features as some of the better brands have, I'm here due to mucking around with my monitor settings as I tend to get a lot of eye strain,

Do you think a better 144hz monitor with all the other features would be worth upgrading to? from this AOC G2460F monitor? thanks agian
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Re: [TestUFO] Overdrive help please!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 12 Aug 2017, 19:25

kieran1203 wrote:My monitor has none of the fancy blur reduction features as some of the better brands have, I'm here due to mucking around with my monitor settings as I tend to get a lot of eye strain

Cause of eyestrain can be very difficult to diagnose.

Multiple causes: PWM / motion blur / excess brightness / excess blue / poor colors / only at desktop / only in games / etc.
-- Some people have fixed this by going to a flicker-free IPS monitor (more sensitive to flicker or colors or viewing angle)
-- Others have used lower brightness / lower blue light (headaches from light sensitivity)
-- Yet others go with Motion Blur Reduction (headaches from motion blur)

For a "quick fix test" with your existing monitor, try reducing brightness / lowering color temperature (warm colors) / increasing viewing distance. This assumes you're already using a PWM-free monitor, and you're getting headaches all the time (even in desktop use). But if your headaches only occur during video games, the causes may be different (e.g. motion blur). While strobing means flicker and bothers some people, it actually helped some people whose brains can't tolerate motion blur. Not always. Everyone is different.

kieran1203 wrote:Do you think a better 144hz monitor with all the other features would be worth upgrading to? from this AOC G2460F monitor? thanks agian

Hard to say without knowing more of precisely what your eye strain comes from.
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Re: [TestUFO] Overdrive help please!

Postby kieran1203 » 13 Aug 2017, 10:14

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
kieran1203 wrote:My monitor has none of the fancy blur reduction features as some of the better brands have, I'm here due to mucking around with my monitor settings as I tend to get a lot of eye strain

Cause of eyestrain can be very difficult to diagnose.

Multiple causes: PWM / motion blur / excess brightness / excess blue / poor colors / only at desktop / only in games / etc.
-- Some people have fixed this by going to a flicker-free IPS monitor (more sensitive to flicker or colors or viewing angle)
-- Others have used lower brightness / lower blue light (headaches from light sensitivity)
-- Yet others go with Motion Blur Reduction (headaches from motion blur)

For a "quick fix test" with your existing monitor, try reducing brightness / lowering color temperature (warm colors) / increasing viewing distance. This assumes you're already using a PWM-free monitor, and you're getting headaches all the time (even in desktop use). But if your headaches only occur during video games, the causes may be different (e.g. motion blur). While strobing means flicker and bothers some people, it actually helped some people whose brains can't tolerate motion blur. Not always. Everyone is different.

kieran1203 wrote:Do you think a better 144hz monitor with all the other features would be worth upgrading to? from this AOC G2460F monitor? thanks agian

Hard to say without knowing more of precisely what your eye strain comes from.


I think it is the brightness in the evening is when it starts to sting if I've been gaming a while, however I am still thinking of upgrading to a better monitor, would you recommend or BENQ XL2411Z or the ASUS VG248QE? or anything else around this level? it would be for csgo and whatever one has the best features related to eye strain? Thanks again
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Re: Overdrive help please!

Postby RealNC » 13 Aug 2017, 11:03

I don't think another monitor is going to help much. You should probably just reduce the brightness. It's way too high in all monitors by default. I have an AOC G2770PF, and I must set the brightess to 10 (yes, ten) to make it output normal light instead of OMG MY EYES light.

This is true for virtually all monitors these days.
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Re: Overdrive help please!

Postby kieran1203 » 13 Aug 2017, 11:45

RealNC wrote:I don't think another monitor is going to help much. You should probably just reduce the brightness. It's way too high in all monitors by default. I have an AOC G2770PF, and I must set the brightess to 10 (yes, ten) to make it output normal light instead of OMG MY EYES light.

This is true for virtually all monitors these days.


Yup I completely get that, one of the default setups is at 90.. crazy im at like 30 or so,

However I would like a monitor with some of the added features, I've read in a few places people don't find AOC to be on the same level as ASUS and BenQ, even when I do one of these tests it says the monitor is stuttering (it goes green but for brief periods of time) and thats with everything closed,- https://gyazo.com/c15d27e550244e605ae8d69958c0558e - I've read many people say it skips a few frames, on the test it is going down from 144 by a couple and back up.. so it seems to do the same for me!

I also struggle in CSGO with the shadows no matter what I do the dark areas are so dark unless I have digital vibrance and brightness all the way up and destroy my eyes in seconds.., and I've read the BenQ monitors don't have issues like that and have their own feature for shadows! (I'll literally be unable to make out opponents in these areas which I know my friends don't have issues with they think I'm just potato'ing my aim but really I can't see the enemy lol!)

So I would like to try picking one up as I do nothing but CSGO really, even with this monitor on overdrive at strong I can see a difference just walking forward in the game everything is less blurry when moving (this isn't when I'm moving my mouse) just moving forward all the stationary objects are clearer, but as discussed above already about the corona's and whatnot I just feel ASUS or BenQ would be better, I certainly don't see anyone choosing AOC over these brands!
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Re: Overdrive help please!

Postby RealNC » 13 Aug 2017, 12:23

kieran1203 wrote:However I would like a monitor with some of the added features, I've read in a few places people don't find AOC to be on the same level as ASUS and BenQ, even when I do one of these tests it says the monitor is stuttering (it goes green but for brief periods of time) and thats with everything closed,- https://gyazo.com/c15d27e550244e605ae8d69958c0558e - I've read many people say it skips a few frames, on the test it is going down from 144 by a couple and back up.. so it seems to do the same for me!

This has nothing to do with the monitor. The warning messages are about the browser, not the monitor.

I also struggle in CSGO with the shadows no matter what I do the dark areas are so dark unless I have digital vibrance and brightness all the way up and destroy my eyes in seconds.., and I've read the BenQ monitors don't have issues like that and have their own feature for shadows! (I'll literally be unable to make out opponents in these areas which I know my friends don't have issues with they think I'm just potato'ing my aim but really I can't see the enemy lol!)

Choose a different gamma profile for CS:GO. It should be somewhere in the monitor OSD. I think it has three profiles.

But yeah, even AOC monitors that do have "shadow boost", that function is implemented in a way that can only be described as laughable, at best :-P

But you can still use a different gamma profile in the monitor's OSD, and also change the gamma/brightness slider in CS:GO's options.

So I would like to try picking one up as I do nothing but CSGO really, even with this monitor on overdrive at strong I can see a difference just walking forward in the game everything is less blurry when moving (this isn't when I'm moving my mouse) just moving forward all the stationary objects are clearer, but as discussed above already about the corona's and whatnot I just feel ASUS or BenQ would be better, I certainly don't see anyone choosing AOC over these brands!

If you're on NVidia, I'd recommend a g-sync monitor. They have the best overdrive implementation (it's implemented by nvidia, not the monitor vendor.)
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