CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

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MatrixQW
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Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 10:01

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by MatrixQW » 06 Feb 2020, 02:30

Are there any games that you can run a server on your PC and connect through localhost?
This will allow to see if the issue is internet or not.

QuakeWorld allows to download and run a server on the PC.
The game has advanced network statistics so it's a good debbuging tool.
I can disable ethernet and it connects or I can set the server with my router's ip so without leaving my isp's network I know if the issue is in my isp.

I always had issues with QuakeWorld, it feels unresponsive, heavy/hard to move, mouse feels sluggish/floaty. On rare occasions it feels totally different and I can actually aim.
It doesn't matter if I have 13ms or 120, the feeling is always the same.
Connection is stable and no packets lost or out of order.
Only way to know if the issue is real or it's in my head would be someone playing at my house or me playing at someone else's house.

Unreazz
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by Unreazz » 06 Feb 2020, 09:18

Lets say it is some elictrician issue.... what can i tweak to gain more performance about it ? like is there anything i can do on the bios or cables ?

nick4567
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Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 19:55

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by nick4567 » 06 Feb 2020, 13:13

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
06 Feb 2020, 01:56
There's big money now in esports, so it might be just a matter of time before some study is funded on this, with spillover effects.

Occasionally, Blur Busters does commission research in the esports topic area, such as the Human Reflex article on Blur Busters.
i went through some of the other threads here with people describing the same issues and one was even on fast path complaining so i dont think interleaving is the only cause but theres lots of things isps can do eg inject artificial delays etc... perhaps the reason that some people switch isps and still experience issues are the configurations on the switches/routers the isps peer on for this problem to get the attention it deserves more people need to realize it is internet related and not hardware or some other issue, ive spoken to a few semi pro players who have described the issue in the same exact way but not everyone experiences this issue to the same degree and some dont ever experience this so yes while esports is growing the probability that this will become investigated is higher but there is misinformation everywhere on this topic and the wrong things might be investigated

Krizak
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by Krizak » 06 Feb 2020, 20:52

As a network engineer and gamer since the dialup days, although ISP routing and configurations is not my realm of expertise, I can offer a few tidbits that I have learned over the years that is relevant to this topic that may or may not help someone else.

Wired vs Wireless

If possible always take an ethernet connection to your gaming computer as a priority. The amount of jitter from wireless alone can vary from 1-3ms and you also run into a much higher chance of packet loss occuring from interference. If you have to use wireless, try to use 5g over 2.4g as that spectrum is less crowded. If you have to use 2.4g, there are programs out there that can scan wireless channels neighbors are using around you. Find channels that you can set that is the least crowded betweeen 1-11.

Bufferbloat

This is a tough topic to explain but can have a drastic impact on your gaming performance especially if you have a small internet pipe or are sharing your connections with others in your household. Basically if your router connection is getting saturated (someone is downloading and maxing out your internet download/upload), the router then has to buffer that information (sometimes increasing latency into the 100+ ms). Some routers have a QoS feature that does improve this. I currently use PFSense and FQ_Codel as my way to mitigate although nowadays I am on 1gb/1gb FTTH. You can test out your bufferbloat at DSLReports speedtest at the following:

https://www.dslreports.com/speedtest

Also, Battlenonsense did a decent job of covering this specific scenario in a video that I will just link the video to get tips for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjJW_s5gQ9Y

ISP

There are various types of ISP choices out there and the technologies they use to connect with them. Those technologies also have different latency just through the first hop of a traceroute. Here is a short list of ping times for those technologies although a few I am just guessing at latencies:

FTTH - 1-2ms
Cable - 6-12ms
DSL - 20-40ms
4G Wireless hotspot - 30-100ms
5G Wireless hotspot - 10-20ms
ISDN - 60+ ms
Dialup - 150+ ms

Once you get past the first hop, you are now entering your ISP's network. Now to get to your destination, an ISP will route those packets and eventually handoff to a transit provider (L3/Cogent/ATT/Verizon/etc). The ISP or transit provider will then route those packets to the distant ends ISP or hosting provider. Now some ISP's have their own backbone or have bought transit providers so they can route further outside their network although they usually do not host the services you are connecting to on their own network. Most of the time, the routing that occurs after your ISP hands off the packet off its network is out of your ISP's control and is up to the transit provider and its network. As such, you will probably never be able to convince a transit provider and even your ISP to change your route. Sucks but that is the life of the internet today.

Another thing to look at is verifying your signal levels are good if you have Cable or DSL. I am not familiar with DSL myself, but with cable, you can look at your signal levels of your modem. Typically this is the 192.168.100.1 address. Both your downstream and upstream can cause issues if your signal is too hot or too weak. I would recommend checking out DSLReports forums for the ISP you use and signal levels that are recommended. If you are having issues, definitely contact your ISP to get a technician to try and fix it if your line is not within specs.

Game VPN Proxies

So one solution that may or may not work is trying some of the game VPN proxies such as Haste or WTFast. What these essentially do is your ISP will hand off traffic to these provider which may or may not have better routing to the game servers you are connecting to. I would try the various ones and see if you can improve your routing and therefore your ping that way.

One thing I would not do is sign up for a VPN like Nord VPN that redirects ALL traffic from your computer outside the internet. While those are good for general webrowing and everyday tasks, they introduce extra overhead, use CPU resources, and typically have a higher latency.

Windows Tuning

I always did some basic tuning for Windows and tweaks, but found a great youtube channel (FR33THY) that actually does an excellent job at tweaking your system. Now some of these I would do at your own risk and probably best if you did a fresh install. I recommend his Windows A-Z playlist that I linked below:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... UAHw99aGWW

With that said I would recommend only using this guide if you have a 2nd PC that you can use as a workstation or general use computer. Some features may break if you do other tasks on your computer other than gaming.


2 PC Setup

Relating to above, but I would recommend having a 2nd PC setup. Your game PC has minimal programs and peripherals installed aside from games. Your other PC is your everday items, programs, accessories. I would steer away from KVM for mouse/keyboard (they introduce to much delay), but there are programs out there where you can split audio between 2 PC's without much delay (Voicemeter Banana). By doing this, you can minimize programs that are accessing your CPU and RAM, minimize DPC latency, etc.



So just some food for thought for some people and hopefully something here helps someone out!
Game PC: ASUS PG258Q 240hz, 8700K 5.1ghz OC , ASUS MAXIMUS IX APEX Z270, 2 x 8GB 4200Mhz 16-16-16-36, Nvidia 1080FE
Work PC: Dell 2716DG 144hz, 6850K 4.1ghz OC, Asus Rampage Extreme X Motherboard, 4 x 8GB 3200mhz 15-15-15-35 , Nvidia 1050TI

MCP
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by MCP » 13 Feb 2020, 17:53

I opened a thread, but this thread is my exact problem.

csgo feels like shit........ dont need to reppeat that aim enemy or anything else is shit, this thread define the problem i have in csgo.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Post by Chief Blur Buster » 13 Feb 2020, 18:33

I may soon have access to two separate gigabit ISP installations reachable to my main rig!

A competing gigabit ISP is coming to my area so I may have the opportunity to concurrently have both Cable and FTTH simultaneously to the same home. They are price-cutting each other with specials so it wouldn't be too expensive to try a few months of simultaneous gigabit. I already have cable gigabit (Cogeco), and it's the fiber gigabit (Bell Canada as competitor) -- they're trenching now, having announced bringing FTTH to my neighborhood this year (3Q 2020)!

Soooo.....

If I do that (3Q 2020 or 4Q 2020), what game benchmarking tools are available to spew out delicious graphs & statistics data on netcode? So I can compare the two gigabits and share. I realize not all tools are able to record all data of a game. I may have to ask Battle(non)sense for some help with that, but I'm open to ideas of low-lying apples of existing game-analysis tools.

I could use ideas on more experienced benchmarkers. I'm the display expert, but I'm currently a wee bit weak in network analysis.
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Krizak
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Joined: 05 Feb 2020, 18:56

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by Krizak » 13 Feb 2020, 23:16

MCP wrote:
13 Feb 2020, 17:53
I opened a thread, but this thread is my exact problem.

csgo feels like shit........ dont need to reppeat that aim enemy or anything else is shit, this thread define the problem i have in csgo.
Did you read the post and try any of the tips I offered above? With so little information provided, you are not going to get much help.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
13 Feb 2020, 18:33
I may soon have access to two separate gigabit ISP installations reachable to my main rig!

A competing gigabit ISP is coming to my area so I may have the opportunity to concurrently have both Cable and FTTH simultaneously to the same home. They are price-cutting each other with specials so it wouldn't be too expensive to try a few months of simultaneous gigabit. I already have cable gigabit (Cogeco), and it's the fiber gigabit (Bell Canada as competitor) -- they're trenching now, having announced bringing FTTH to my neighborhood this year (3Q 2020)!

Soooo.....

If I do that (3Q 2020 or 4Q 2020), what game benchmarking tools are available to spew out delicious graphs & statistics data on netcode? So I can compare the two gigabits and share. I realize not all tools are able to record all data of a game. I may have to ask Battle(non)sense for some help with that, but I'm open to ideas of low-lying apples of existing game-analysis tools.

I could use ideas on more experienced benchmarkers. I'm the display expert, but I'm currently a wee bit weak in network analysis.
Here are a few tools I would suggest trying so you can at least compare the routing of your 2 ISP's to your game servers:

Open Visual Trace:
Visual tool of the routing your ISP takes.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/openvisualtrace/

MTR
Good tool for continuous pings that can also check your routing and good for seeing packet loss, jitter, min/avg/max pings to each hop.
http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/

Wireshark
Captures your network interface card and all packets that traverse it. Information overload, but you can setup a filter to perhaps capture your end destination IP and look at packets. Definitely not for novices though.
https://www.wireshark.org/

PFSense (Software Firewall)
This would be a replacement for your regular router but has tons of useful graphs and information that can be useful for looking at ping, packets per second, etc.
https://www.pfsense.org/

I would also suggest checking out Overwatch's built in netgraph as it does have useful information for min/avg/max latency, round trip time, and packets per second. Also has things relating to input lag, interprotation delay, and command queue.

Also consider testing for bufferbloat with your current router and trying with and without a game VPN proxy like I suggested above. I have had both 1gb/1gb FTTH (current) and 1gb/40mb Cable at the same time and ended up deciding to stay with FTTH as the latency was better overall and any advantage I had with routing on cable could be usurped with the aformentioned game VPN's.
Game PC: ASUS PG258Q 240hz, 8700K 5.1ghz OC , ASUS MAXIMUS IX APEX Z270, 2 x 8GB 4200Mhz 16-16-16-36, Nvidia 1080FE
Work PC: Dell 2716DG 144hz, 6850K 4.1ghz OC, Asus Rampage Extreme X Motherboard, 4 x 8GB 3200mhz 15-15-15-35 , Nvidia 1050TI

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LagBuster
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by LagBuster » 14 Feb 2020, 07:19

Krizak wrote:
06 Feb 2020, 20:52
As a network engineer and gamer since the dialup days
Hey Krizak, what do you think about this? https://github.com/djdallmann/GamingPCS ... /README.md :ugeek:

MCP
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Joined: 13 Feb 2020, 09:32

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by MCP » 14 Feb 2020, 11:59

yeah i did read, the thing is that i have a good pc and also fiber internet connection, so dont really understand why i have this feeling in game.

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nuggify
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by nuggify » 14 Feb 2020, 14:50

MCP wrote:
14 Feb 2020, 11:59
yeah i did read, the thing is that i have a good pc and also fiber internet connection, so dont really understand why i have this feeling in game.
Only in game or do you notice issues in other games/on desktop?

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