FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

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Yuiiski
Posts: 31
Joined: 28 Oct 2020, 19:10

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by Yuiiski » 04 Sep 2021, 17:58

jorimt wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 11:19
wittycoder wrote:
03 Sep 2021, 13:29
I am somewhat concerned that it might be EMI/line noise since I have solar, EV chargers, servers in the house, HV power lines nearby but I tried different rooms/circuits.

Games that I have used to demonstrate the issue:
3d Mark TimeSpy - No FPS drop (haven't been able to discover why that might be)
wittycoder wrote:
03 Sep 2021, 16:33
My old PC was X5650 Xeon with 1080TI and didn't have this anywhere near this frequency of an issue, I was able to change some basic settings as I started to troubleshoot here and it was mostly gone. My son also has hand-me-down parts from my old system (5800x with 3060TI) and also has far fewer issues in Fortnite.
I re-read your comments; have you tried running the same games on your new build at the exact same graphical settings, framerate and refresh rate your older builds were running at?

I ask, because while your new build is capable of higher sustained framerates/refresh rates at higher graphical settings, due to current storage API limitations, your I/O transfer speeds haven't changed, and since those same games in that case would now be demanding more data be transferred and more complex scenes be rendered, while everything may be higher performing in-between disk access, when it comes time to load in new data, the request are now much larger than they were, causing worse/longer frametime spikes.

Another issue with EMI troubleshooting is that EMI and I/O requests cause the exact same thing, and thus can often look the same...

The tell that it's EMI, is the frametime spike presence/severity typically occurs regardless of the games, settings, and devices tried, and from what you've conveyed thus far, it's seems unlikely you have it if you don't experience it consistently in every app (i.e. 3D Mark TimeSpy, which, unlike most modern games, likely preloads it's assets before benchmarking begins, reducing realtime I/O requests), you're able to reduce and/or affect it with user-side settings, and you're not getting the same severity of the issue with older builds running on the same electricity in the same house.
Sorry, I don't mean to try and hijack this thread, but how would one go about testing to see if EMI is the cause of performance issues like frametime spikes etc?

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jorimt
Posts: 1561
Joined: 04 Nov 2016, 10:44
Location: USA

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by jorimt » 04 Sep 2021, 18:11

Yuiiski wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:58
Sorry, I don't mean to try and hijack this thread, but how would one go about testing to see if EMI is the cause of performance issues like frametime spikes etc?
If you're experiencing severe, frequent frametime spikes that occur across one or multiple PC builds in the same physical location, the spikes are occurring at the same severity on your desktop, apps, and games, and nothing you do affects them, even if you close all background processes and overlays, lower all of your graphical settings to the minimum, uncap your framerate, disable all syncing methods, and play at very low resolutions, then it's possible you have an EMI or electrical issue at your particular location.

As for how to mitigate it, that's a whole other story, and not something I'm interested or versed in.

Try asking in this thread if you want to jump down the EMI rabbit hole:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6498
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
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Mugabi
Posts: 68
Joined: 26 Apr 2021, 01:42

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by Mugabi » 06 Sep 2021, 10:13

I think it has to do with ram voltages, try to mess with them and your stutter will go. Vram soc,vddp,vddg, ram timings and dram voltage. Before you do all thess why don't you try to set bios to default settings,like all of the settings and see what happens

3xil3
Posts: 23
Joined: 18 Jul 2021, 20:03

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by 3xil3 » 06 Sep 2021, 10:37

Comment to forum topic microsoft has settings set into placewithin windows when you start messing stuff they dont want you to with hpet truning off telmentry..ect for some reason windows never same even after change settings.
ive found just resintalling everything works again and as long i dont touch stuff in regestry anything operating system related it just works. To get around this I found doing all your system tweaks within the windows ISO creation rather then when in windows itself works. This wasnt always like this think once they went free windows becasue they steaaling your info with so telemntry.

wittycoder
Posts: 5
Joined: 02 Sep 2021, 14:04

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by wittycoder » 08 Sep 2021, 04:05

I did look through that fortnite thread/post and changed some of my settings. I was already running with mostly low/off and only had distance set to far and one other settings high, those were my old settings I had on my 1080ti. Right now with those settings and turning off shadows I was able to run 1/2 resolution (2560*1440) at over 500 fps and still got dropped frames and stutters.
Mugabi wrote:
06 Sep 2021, 10:13
I think it has to do with ram voltages, try to mess with them and your stutter will go. Vram soc,vddp,vddg, ram timings and dram voltage. Before you do all thess why don't you try to set bios to default settings,like all of the settings and see what happens
I'll try tweaking those settings, I have bumped voltage up slightly but no noticeable difference (1.35->1.4v)
3xil3 wrote:
06 Sep 2021, 10:37
Comment to forum topic microsoft has settings set into placewithin windows when you start messing stuff they dont want you to with hpet truning off telmentry..ect for some reason windows never same even after change settings.
ive found just resintalling everything works again and as long i dont touch stuff in regestry anything operating system related it just works. To get around this I found doing all your system tweaks within the windows ISO creation rather then when in windows itself works. This wasnt always like this think once they went free windows becasue they steaaling your info with so telemntry.
Since re-install I haven't messed with those parameters anymore. I hope I don't have to do another windows install, but if I do how do you change those in the ISO creation? I just downloaded the iso via media creation tool and created a USB drive for the install.

Eonds
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Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 10:34
Contact:

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by Eonds » 09 Sep 2021, 01:55

Okay a few things...

Try turning game mode off in windows.
Try using accelerated GPU scheduling as well.
Try turning RFI spread spectrum to 6% in your bios.
Try turning on other spread spectrum settings (VRM Spread Spectrum, SRIS, etc)
Set fixed frequencies and voltages for all components.
See if any drivers have abnormally high DPC.
Always strip your drivers to the bare minimum.
Disable Tile cache for your GPU via Nvidia Profile inspector.
Turn off all RGB/lighting on your peripherals & within your case.
Separate all cables, try to make sure no cable is touching.

(I have more recommendations but for now try all these together and you should at least have a smoother game if not it'll be fixed)

If you need help disabling tile caching, or finding hidden bios settings just hmu on my discord and I'd be glad to help. Eonds#7693

Slender
Posts: 37
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by Slender » 14 Sep 2021, 16:58

> im lag
> hi end pc
> amd...
lol?

wittycoder
Posts: 5
Joined: 02 Sep 2021, 14:04

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by wittycoder » 14 Sep 2021, 22:17

Eonds wrote:
09 Sep 2021, 01:55
Okay a few things...

Try turning game mode off in windows.
Try using accelerated GPU scheduling as well.
Try turning RFI spread spectrum to 6% in your bios.
Try turning on other spread spectrum settings (VRM Spread Spectrum, SRIS, etc)
Set fixed frequencies and voltages for all components.
See if any drivers have abnormally high DPC.
Always strip your drivers to the bare minimum.
Was able to try these out, Asrock is limited in SS settings, CPU SS Auto/Disabled and it's running Auto now (previously tried disabled and didn't help). Fixed CPU and mem voltages to existing values. No change. I did a couple of runs with LatencyMon and all green, 200us max and the highest drivers were all as expected (Video, DirectX, audio, etc.). The only thing that stood out was the page faults on the game itself. After re-install I have only added drivers for GPU at first and still had the issue, eventually added mobo, sound, mouse drivers.
Eonds wrote:
09 Sep 2021, 01:55
Disable Tile cache for your GPU via Nvidia Profile inspector.
Turn off all RGB/lighting on your peripherals & within your case.
Separate all cables, try to make sure no cable is touching.
Tried profile inspector with mod config, didn't work and haven't gotten back to it. Will have to work on that when I have time to work on PC again this weekend. RGB sucks, Phanteks case I have to unplug it and Crucial memory refuse to be controlled (MOD app crashes and doesn't work with other control apps). I do have the internal cables pretty well managed and routed separately in the basement of the case. I may try to un-cable manage my desk to get things away from each other on the external wiring.
Slender wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 16:58
> im lag
> hi end pc
> amd...
lol?
Super helpful Intel fanboi! Probably just dreaming of the day's Intel had better CPUs and held the bench records.

Eonds
Posts: 77
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 10:34
Contact:

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by Eonds » 14 Sep 2021, 23:30

wittycoder wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 22:17
Eonds wrote:
09 Sep 2021, 01:55
Okay a few things...

Try turning game mode off in windows.
Try using accelerated GPU scheduling as well.
Try turning RFI spread spectrum to 6% in your bios.
Try turning on other spread spectrum settings (VRM Spread Spectrum, SRIS, etc)
Set fixed frequencies and voltages for all components.
See if any drivers have abnormally high DPC.
Always strip your drivers to the bare minimum.
Was able to try these out, Asrock is limited in SS settings, CPU SS Auto/Disabled and it's running Auto now (previously tried disabled and didn't help). Fixed CPU and mem voltages to existing values. No change. I did a couple of runs with LatencyMon and all green, 200us max and the highest drivers were all as expected (Video, DirectX, audio, etc.). The only thing that stood out was the page faults on the game itself. After re-install I have only added drivers for GPU at first and still had the issue, eventually added mobo, sound, mouse drivers.
Eonds wrote:
09 Sep 2021, 01:55
Disable Tile cache for your GPU via Nvidia Profile inspector.
Turn off all RGB/lighting on your peripherals & within your case.
Separate all cables, try to make sure no cable is touching.
Tried profile inspector with mod config, didn't work and haven't gotten back to it. Will have to work on that when I have time to work on PC again this weekend. RGB sucks, Phanteks case I have to unplug it and Crucial memory refuse to be controlled (MOD app crashes and doesn't work with other control apps). I do have the internal cables pretty well managed and routed separately in the basement of the case. I may try to un-cable manage my desk to get things away from each other on the external wiring.
Slender wrote:
14 Sep 2021, 16:58
> im lag
> hi end pc
> amd...
lol?
Super helpful Intel fanboi! Probably just dreaming of the day's Intel had better CPUs and held the bench records.


Latency/micro stuttering is super hard to diagnose simply because the amount of things that can affect system synchronization. The more advanced stuff like disabling gpu security, disabling TBDR, adjusting VRAM timings, flashing unlock bios, turning off power savings, using a high FPS camera to see if there's any stuttering, windows power plans, System timers, disable watchdog timers, tightening memory timings, making sure temps stay below 70c at all times, disabling idle states of all kinds, disabling ECC on all devices, checking your PC for any damage on all parts, setting affinities for each driver you use, (latencymon isn't useful for diagnosing micro stuttering btw, Disabling power savings on your GPU/mobo via SCEWIN(GRUB) & reversing nvlddkm.sys driver/dxgkrnl and finding dwords that can be applied to your GPU's registry path, make sure there's no downclocking/unstable clocks, checking cords for any damage, try different displays, make sure no driver is causing high DPC even after optimization (windows toolkit), Don't benchmark stuttering on bad games because a lot of games are really shitty and have their own issues. Benchmark your stuttering on a game that isn't known to have stuttering issues with high FPS. Please let me know if you live near cell towers 4G/5G, transformers, or playing near anything that has a motor which generates a lot of interference. use DC for fans instead of PWM, Don't use ryzen CPU's if you want low latency & general smoothness, Try using RFI spread spectrum to 6% (Use a script like SCEWIN to get your hidden bios settings) + (anecdotally fixed stuttering on multiple AMD systems). Monitor background tasks/make sure you have disabled all antivirus/windows defender bs, no browsers open etc. That's all i can think of atm.

deama
Posts: 296
Joined: 07 Aug 2019, 12:00

Re: FPS drop/microstutter debugging after replacing 95% of the PC and multiple re-installs

Post by deama » 15 Sep 2021, 00:51

If you have friends, you can try setting up your computer over at their place for a few days to a week and see if that helps, to see if it's an EMI/EMF issue.

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