input lag on newer pcs

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Slender
Posts: 226
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Slender » 22 Jun 2022, 17:08

ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:59
Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:54
ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:42
This topic is becoming a joke... You guys are obsessing over things that make no difference, or actually make things worse Just install windows, install game, play game.

Like disabling HT?! :lol: I can understand disabling the e-cores, because of the ring clocks, but that's about it.
"yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary." Necessary? Your system has to be broken.
what have you done useful for this forum besides writing such messages?
I could say the same about your posts...
I will not talk about what I do on this forum, you can read my threads and find out about it yourself, but I will gladly listen to you about your affairs on this forum. Unless of course all your findings are to install a clean Windows and put everything in the bios in auto mode

kokkatc
Posts: 75
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by kokkatc » 22 Jun 2022, 17:20

Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:17
kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 15:43
Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 13:46
kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 11:03


FYI, for my Alder Lake build I use Windows 11 since it's basically required because of the thread director. Windows 11 by default will run at exactly .5ms w/ timer resolution. Sometimes it's .503 or .496 on the first click, but it goes to .5ms by the second click w/ timer resolution. Windows 11 timer resolution has changed. Most of the time it goes directly to .5ms. Are you on windows 10 by chance? I've done A LOT of bcdedit testing over the years and ultimately decided that useplatformtick yes is bad. Even disabledynamictick yes appeared to add some kind of desync, especially on 11. Even though the mouse appeared to become more consistent, it added input lag for me. Maybe that's not the case on all builds but that was always the case for me. On Windows 11 specifically I get the best results w/ leaving bcdedit settings @ default.

I'll test useplatformtick yes for you regardless and let you know.
yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary.
yes, im use win10, win 11 have change with timer res.
but on win11 i have much dpc latency on usb controller.
and yes, disabledynamicktick yes ruine aim.
Hmmm, I have some thoughts on this regarding Windows 10.

My experience of Alder Lake on Windows 10 was not good. Everything felt lagged, slow, delayed, desync, etc. It did not feel responsive at all which is probably due to the fact that Windows 10 doesn't have the same thread director 11 has which was designed to deal w/ P & E cores. Simply speaking, Alder Lake was designed for Windows 11. I ran a dual boot/partition w/ both 11 and 10 installed so I could compare and 10 did yield lower DPC Latency across the board, however, the games were less smooth and input lag appeared to be higher. On 11, the games/mouse are more responsive. I've also noticed instances where my usb driver (wdf) in dpc latency was MUCH higher in 11 but still felt snappier and more responsiveness than 10. Long story short, you're going to have never ending problems running Alder Lake on 10. I would kindly suggest you give windows 11 another try because it already sounds like 10 isn't doing you any favors. Perhaps at least setup a dual boot w/ both versions installed.

Also I wanted to mention in case you were unaware, I disable all E-Cores along w/ hyper threading which significantly drops DPC latency which improves mouse feel quite a bit.
oh, im disable HT and e-cores too
u try revi os 11?
Not yet, I'll give it a try soon. Been curious about it for awhile.

ptuga
Posts: 32
Joined: 20 May 2020, 02:06

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by ptuga » 22 Jun 2022, 17:23

Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 17:08
ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:59
Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:54
ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:42
This topic is becoming a joke... You guys are obsessing over things that make no difference, or actually make things worse Just install windows, install game, play game.

Like disabling HT?! :lol: I can understand disabling the e-cores, because of the ring clocks, but that's about it.
"yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary." Necessary? Your system has to be broken.
what have you done useful for this forum besides writing such messages?
I could say the same about your posts...
I will not talk about what I do on this forum, you can read my threads and find out about it yourself, but I will gladly listen to you about your affairs on this forum. Unless of course all your findings are to install a clean Windows and put everything in the bios in auto mode
I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say that. What I meant is that I think you're losing way too much of your time on things that don't matter.
BIOS yes it matters. But like, tune your memory, cpu make sure it's FULLY stable and go about your day.
The only time I had issues with mouse feel was with my 8700k, because the board was shiit with memory. But again, I made it work.
You might have the same issue since you say u can't even post 3600c14, but I don't think it's the case, feel more like user error than anything else.

The only things worth doing for alder lake is:
1 - Tune your memory, gear 1, highest possible frequency, then timings.
2 - Tune your cpu. Slight oc on core if you want, finish by tuning cache/ring or disable e-cores.
3 - Make sure to test stability, leave it overnight, multiple tests. Slight instability in ram/imc = inconsistent feeling system.

Windows tweaks are a completely waste of time. Just remove unnecessary crap, personalize it your liking and go enjoy your games. Don't over do it, not worth the trouble.

ehhh, but what do I know, I'm just a random guy on the internet...
Last edited by ptuga on 22 Jun 2022, 17:29, edited 1 time in total.

Shade7
Posts: 30
Joined: 25 May 2022, 18:44

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Shade7 » 22 Jun 2022, 17:28

kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 15:34
Shade7 wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 14:03
kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 11:03
Slender wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:56


all z690 and alder lake have timer issue, after reboot or on startup take 3!!! another timer resolution with different feelings.
Please, test it with bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes
+ default timer res (1ms), it will stable timer res to 1 or 0.5ms (i dont recomended 0.5)
thanks for update.
FYI, for my Alder Lake build I use Windows 11 since it's basically required because of the thread director. Windows 11 by default will run at exactly .5ms w/ timer resolution. Sometimes it's .503 or .496 on the first click, but it goes to .5ms by the second click w/ timer resolution. Windows 11 timer resolution has changed. Most of the time it goes directly to .5ms. Are you on windows 10 by chance? I've done A LOT of bcdedit testing over the years and ultimately decided that useplatformtick yes is bad. Even disabledynamictick yes appeared to add some kind of desync, especially on 11. Even though the mouse appeared to become more consistent, it added input lag for me. Maybe that's not the case on all builds but that was always the case for me. On Windows 11 specifically I get the best results w/ leaving bcdedit settings @ default.

I'll test useplatformtick yes for you regardless and let you know.
Just clarifying, you leave bcdedits on default for Win11, but are still using a timer tool to set 0.5ms- correct?

Is it worth doing that or just leaving default timer (prob 1ms for games).
Yes, that's correct. Since Windows 10 2004, I leave all BCDEDIT commands @ default. Useplatformtick YES added noticeable input lag and disabledynamictick YES somehow increased mouse sensitivity/acceleration, plus in game hit detections became delayed and just off and bizarre. Another way of explaining that phenomenon is that it felt like I was experiencing some form of desync. So on Windows 11, default bcdedit settings appear to be best from my viewpoint.

As for timer resolution, yes, I ALWAYS USE THIS when gaming and I set it to .5ms. Timer resolution and bcdedit can be seen as two separate things. Many BCDEDIT commands determine which system timer is being used and how whereas timer resolution determines how often your system fires off interrupts. Always use a timer resolution tool when gaming. I have heard from many people that some prefer 1ms vs .05ms but I most definitely prefer .5ms. I notice it most w/ hit detection. Hits become consistent w/ no weird audio glitches @ .5ms where 1ms hit detection isn't as consistent nor are the audio cues from hits. I'll have to make a video one of these days explaining this phenomenon.
Are u using ISLC or some other tool to change timers. It's been like 6 months since I try anything with timers, but I'll give it a shot in Windows 11 now.

Slender
Posts: 226
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Slender » 22 Jun 2022, 17:53

ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 17:23
Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 17:08
ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:59
Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:54


what have you done useful for this forum besides writing such messages?
I could say the same about your posts...
I will not talk about what I do on this forum, you can read my threads and find out about it yourself, but I will gladly listen to you about your affairs on this forum. Unless of course all your findings are to install a clean Windows and put everything in the bios in auto mode
I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say that. What I meant is that I think you're losing way too much of your time on things that don't matter.
BIOS yes it matters. But like, tune your memory, cpu make sure it's FULLY stable and go about your day.
The only time I had issues with mouse feel was with my 8700k, because the board was shiit with memory. But again, I made it work.
You might have the same issue since you say u can't even post 3600c14, but I don't think it's the case, feel more like user error than anything else.

The only things worth doing for alder lake is:
1 - Tune your memory, gear 1, highest possible frequency, then timings.
2 - Tune your cpu. Slight oc on core if you want, finish by tuning cache/ring or disable e-cores.
3 - Make sure to test stability, leave it overnight, multiple tests. Slight instability in ram/imc = inconsistent feeling system.

Windows tweaks are a completely waste of time. Just remove unnecessary crap, personalize it your liking and go enjoy your games. Don't over do it, not worth the trouble.

ehhh, but what do I know, I'm just a random guy on the internet...
just because you don't feel the difference doesn't mean that others don't feel it. I have given evidence that the z690 has a problem with timers, which explains why each restart can feel different. And the only way out is to fix the constant resolution of the timer. Although, how can I know, maybe you're the guy who plays Tetris.

kokkatc
Posts: 75
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by kokkatc » 23 Jun 2022, 01:25

Shade7 wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 17:28
kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 15:34
Shade7 wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 14:03
kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 11:03


FYI, for my Alder Lake build I use Windows 11 since it's basically required because of the thread director. Windows 11 by default will run at exactly .5ms w/ timer resolution. Sometimes it's .503 or .496 on the first click, but it goes to .5ms by the second click w/ timer resolution. Windows 11 timer resolution has changed. Most of the time it goes directly to .5ms. Are you on windows 10 by chance? I've done A LOT of bcdedit testing over the years and ultimately decided that useplatformtick yes is bad. Even disabledynamictick yes appeared to add some kind of desync, especially on 11. Even though the mouse appeared to become more consistent, it added input lag for me. Maybe that's not the case on all builds but that was always the case for me. On Windows 11 specifically I get the best results w/ leaving bcdedit settings @ default.

I'll test useplatformtick yes for you regardless and let you know.
Just clarifying, you leave bcdedits on default for Win11, but are still using a timer tool to set 0.5ms- correct?

Is it worth doing that or just leaving default timer (prob 1ms for games).
Yes, that's correct. Since Windows 10 2004, I leave all BCDEDIT commands @ default. Useplatformtick YES added noticeable input lag and disabledynamictick YES somehow increased mouse sensitivity/acceleration, plus in game hit detections became delayed and just off and bizarre. Another way of explaining that phenomenon is that it felt like I was experiencing some form of desync. So on Windows 11, default bcdedit settings appear to be best from my viewpoint.

As for timer resolution, yes, I ALWAYS USE THIS when gaming and I set it to .5ms. Timer resolution and bcdedit can be seen as two separate things. Many BCDEDIT commands determine which system timer is being used and how whereas timer resolution determines how often your system fires off interrupts. Always use a timer resolution tool when gaming. I have heard from many people that some prefer 1ms vs .05ms but I most definitely prefer .5ms. I notice it most w/ hit detection. Hits become consistent w/ no weird audio glitches @ .5ms where 1ms hit detection isn't as consistent nor are the audio cues from hits. I'll have to make a video one of these days explaining this phenomenon.
Are u using ISLC or some other tool to change timers. It's been like 6 months since I try anything with timers, but I'll give it a shot in Windows 11 now.
For Windows 11 I recommend you download 'timer resolution.'. Some ISLC builds for some reason don't always work on 11. Google for download link, timer resolution. Remember to run as admin.

Shade7
Posts: 30
Joined: 25 May 2022, 18:44

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Shade7 » 23 Jun 2022, 02:14

kokkatc wrote:
23 Jun 2022, 01:25
Shade7 wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 17:28
kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 15:34
Shade7 wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 14:03


Just clarifying, you leave bcdedits on default for Win11, but are still using a timer tool to set 0.5ms- correct?

Is it worth doing that or just leaving default timer (prob 1ms for games).
Yes, that's correct. Since Windows 10 2004, I leave all BCDEDIT commands @ default. Useplatformtick YES added noticeable input lag and disabledynamictick YES somehow increased mouse sensitivity/acceleration, plus in game hit detections became delayed and just off and bizarre. Another way of explaining that phenomenon is that it felt like I was experiencing some form of desync. So on Windows 11, default bcdedit settings appear to be best from my viewpoint.

As for timer resolution, yes, I ALWAYS USE THIS when gaming and I set it to .5ms. Timer resolution and bcdedit can be seen as two separate things. Many BCDEDIT commands determine which system timer is being used and how whereas timer resolution determines how often your system fires off interrupts. Always use a timer resolution tool when gaming. I have heard from many people that some prefer 1ms vs .05ms but I most definitely prefer .5ms. I notice it most w/ hit detection. Hits become consistent w/ no weird audio glitches @ .5ms where 1ms hit detection isn't as consistent nor are the audio cues from hits. I'll have to make a video one of these days explaining this phenomenon.
Are u using ISLC or some other tool to change timers. It's been like 6 months since I try anything with timers, but I'll give it a shot in Windows 11 now.
For Windows 11 I recommend you download 'timer resolution.'. Some ISLC builds for some reason don't always work on 11. Google for download link, timer resolution. Remember to run as admin.
Any chance I could get a link to the proper download. A few different ones pop up on google.

ptuga
Posts: 32
Joined: 20 May 2020, 02:06

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by ptuga » 23 Jun 2022, 05:58

Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 17:53
just because you don't feel the difference doesn't mean that others don't feel it. I have given evidence that the z690 has a problem with timers, which explains why each restart can feel different. And the only way out is to fix the constant resolution of the timer. Although, how can I know, maybe you're the guy who plays Tetris.
My system must be broken then, I have stable 1.000ms timer on windows 11 without doing anything at all... My mouse feels great and I can get top 1% scores in kovaaks.
Tetris best game

Shade7
Posts: 30
Joined: 25 May 2022, 18:44

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Shade7 » 23 Jun 2022, 16:29

ptuga wrote:
23 Jun 2022, 05:58
Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 17:53
just because you don't feel the difference doesn't mean that others don't feel it. I have given evidence that the z690 has a problem with timers, which explains why each restart can feel different. And the only way out is to fix the constant resolution of the timer. Although, how can I know, maybe you're the guy who plays Tetris.
My system must be broken then, I have stable 1.000ms timer on windows 11 without doing anything at all... My mouse feels great and I can get top 1% scores in kovaaks.
Tetris best game
Are you sure there isn't some program in the background that's requesting that 1.0ms?

I get 15.625 by default on windows 11, but as soon as I open most apps (including google chrome), it switches to 1.0 ms

ptuga
Posts: 32
Joined: 20 May 2020, 02:06

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by ptuga » 23 Jun 2022, 16:56

Shade7 wrote:
23 Jun 2022, 16:29
ptuga wrote:
23 Jun 2022, 05:58
Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 17:53
just because you don't feel the difference doesn't mean that others don't feel it. I have given evidence that the z690 has a problem with timers, which explains why each restart can feel different. And the only way out is to fix the constant resolution of the timer. Although, how can I know, maybe you're the guy who plays Tetris.
My system must be broken then, I have stable 1.000ms timer on windows 11 without doing anything at all... My mouse feels great and I can get top 1% scores in kovaaks.
Tetris best game
Are you sure there isn't some program in the background that's requesting that 1.0ms?

I get 15.625 by default on windows 11, but as soon as I open most apps (including google chrome), it switches to 1.0 ms
Of course there is. chrome or steam is enough to get 1ms system wide. When it matters is in game anyway, and all games call for 1ms timer anyway.
No point in forcing anything, unless you really want 0.5ms timer...

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