input lag on newer pcs

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
Shade7
Posts: 222
Joined: 25 May 2022, 18:44

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Shade7 » 25 Jun 2022, 12:30

ptuga wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 11:05
Melkxz wrote:
24 Jun 2022, 18:16
0,5 timer resolution doesn't do anything positive on my build : revios 11 (+tweaks) : disabledynamictick+useplatformtick yes / ryzen 5600x

I have never felt a positive impact on input lag with ISLC or timer resolution/timer resolution service (at the best it didn't do anything.
I was actually curious about revios 11. Tried it on my other SSD, benchmarked a couple games. Exact same performance. Shadow of tomb raider usually scales with everything, still. Got 300 cpu game average, vs 296 on regular windows 11 22h2 with lowest settings dx12.
Didn't bother to check gpu bound scenarios, but if anything it would show on cpu/ram bound.
Mouse felt the same...

I think costum os are not worth it. Just install windows, remove all the BS, disable services and it's done.
I always feel like something in the background slows down my windows/games - once in a while it feels great, a lot of the time it feels just "meh".

Really wanted to try ReviOS, but it seems like the download link on their website is broken. I don't know if I need adblock to be able to download the link off the website, because nothing loads for me currently.

Slender
Posts: 571
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Slender » 25 Jun 2022, 19:32

Shade7 wrote:
24 Jun 2022, 18:51
Melkxz wrote:
24 Jun 2022, 18:16
0,5 timer resolution doesn't do anything positive on my build : revios 11 (+tweaks) : disabledynamictick+useplatformtick yes / ryzen 5600x

I have never felt a positive impact on input lag with ISLC or timer resolution/timer resolution service (at the best it didn't do anything.
Why bother with disabledynamictick or useplatformtick. Why not just default?
disabledynamictick yes maybe cause bad aiming and other problem

SeekNDstroy
Posts: 21
Joined: 09 May 2022, 01:46

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by SeekNDstroy » 25 Jun 2022, 23:16

Shade7 wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 12:30
ptuga wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 11:05
Melkxz wrote:
24 Jun 2022, 18:16
0,5 timer resolution doesn't do anything positive on my build : revios 11 (+tweaks) : disabledynamictick+useplatformtick yes / ryzen 5600x

I have never felt a positive impact on input lag with ISLC or timer resolution/timer resolution service (at the best it didn't do anything.
I was actually curious about revios 11. Tried it on my other SSD, benchmarked a couple games. Exact same performance. Shadow of tomb raider usually scales with everything, still. Got 300 cpu game average, vs 296 on regular windows 11 22h2 with lowest settings dx12.
Didn't bother to check gpu bound scenarios, but if anything it would show on cpu/ram bound.
Mouse felt the same...

I think costum os are not worth it. Just install windows, remove all the BS, disable services and it's done.
I always feel like something in the background slows down my windows/games - once in a while it feels great, a lot of the time it feels just "meh".

Really wanted to try ReviOS, but it seems like the download link on their website is broken. I don't know if I need adblock to be able to download the link off the website, because nothing loads for me currently.
Use adblock if nothing shows up. Also they have discord server, where they upload some alternative links too.

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 01 Sep 2022, 17:55

Was having a similar experience on my new PC.

Specs:
Ryzen R9 5900X
Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero
RTX 3080
2x8gb Team T Force ARGB (TF10D416G3600HC14CDC01) Rated for 14-15-15-35 at 3600 MHz.

The RAM is the newest part of the system after swapping out a motherboard, and after compiling a bunch of data from people with similar issues, RAM is damn near always the cause, and could be for a variety of reasons.

This is the third kit of RAM i've tried in this PC, and it feels the most responsive out of all of my previous kits, but still feels most responsive at JEDEC (16-16-16-16-35-55) @ 2400MHz.

Melkxz wrote:
19 Jun 2022, 11:24
People were being sarcastic on this forum when I said I fixed my input lag mostly by using custom timing values.

I have corsair vengeance 3200mhz cas 16 on asus B550 rog strix (2/4 slots) :

recommanded timings : 16 - 18 - 18 - 36 - 54 for 3200mhz => unstable

Never got them stable for these values : had to increase tRC to 56 or lower ram speed to 3000mhz => stable input lag looks ok

XMP/DOCP profile gives me : 16 - 18 - 18 - 36 - 75 => insane input lag

It didn't fix all my mouse issues but my mouse went significantly snappier after this.
After seeing this, I was curious as to what timings my motherboard set for my RAM on it's XMP Profile. Turns out enabling XMP on this board just sets the primary timings, and leaves everything else on Auto. Opened CPU-Z and checked what the recommended XMP Profile was for my kit, and it a recommended tRC of 50, when my motherboards XMP profile sets it to 82

And that's only bad timings I know of.

My guess is most Ryzen Mobos (Or atleast both of the ASUS one's i've had.) XMP Profiles set the primary timings, and leaves the rest on Auto.

Auto then proceeds to give you probably the most loose sub-timings possible to Guarantee you are stable, because freshly installing some new RAM into a potentially new motherboard and immediately having bad stability would be a bad look.

Not only this, but i notice in GENERAL when comparing JEDEC to XMP, every single subtiming gets higher rather than lower, which i didn't think made sense considering when envisioning a standard RAM OC, they usually do the opposite.

This in itself would logically explain why JEDEC feels more responsive than XMP, as literally every subtiming is lower when running at JEDEC instead of the Auto-config subtimings on XMP.

Also, i would completely ignore other advice such as disabling HPET timers, XCHI handoff and the likes, as those are most likely trying to fix a problem with additional problems/complication than fixing it at it's root. I had no issues with any of those mobo settings previously (as my mobo pretty much ran at stock), so it wouldn't make sense to disable them now.

It's usually best to start with your system at stock, and if it feels like shit, and your old PC didn't, then it means it's probably not caused by traits shared across the PCs. (Windows, Processor platform, BIOS settings.), as this could follow you to every future build.

Reinstall windows if you need, clear your MOBO CMOS and start from there. test your mouse responsiveness in Kovaaks/in CSGO or what have you, and see if it's responsive.

Then i would try XMP, which the problem usually begins there.

The one common denominator for every experiencing this is their RAM changing in some way across systems.

The only Windows induced issue is Fullscreen Optimization, which is enabled on every program by default. (Which would mean it would follow you across PC builds as an issue.)
Image
Image

And there are sometimes issues caused by peripheral drivers installing incorrectly, which doesn't apply to Zowie mice (The brand i use.), as they only install one driver (as opposed to one mouse and one keyboard driver as seen from Logitech and Razer.) (Stay the hell away from Razer mice/peripherals.)
https://www.overclock.net/threads/how-t ... e.1750736/

If you have Razer software, uninstall it. It's bad driver and software-induced input lag/inconsistency hell.

Otherwise, there sometimes could be issues with drivers naturally, but is uncommon due to how many people reinstall windows nearly infinite times and download drivers from the source sites.

The way this problem looks to commonly shake out is it's either your RAM, or how your motherboard handle's your RAM.

Currently running my ram in DIMMS 1/3 instead of 2/4, as per this post:
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 23:46
Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:29
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:21
Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 15:42


Just curious- any chance you have an ASUS mobo?
I have 2 z690 motherboards actually, the Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4 & the Asus Z690 TUF WIFI D4. The Asus board has better DDR4 compatibility than the gigabyte. I'd stay as far away from Gigabyte z690 boards as possible, they're complete garbage for DDR4 compatibility atm. Even though Asus has better XMP and DDR4 Samsung b-die compatibility, the mouse feel was also changing quite a bit from boot to boot.

W/ Alder lake I've also experienced weird occurrences like having a more responsive mouse when XMP is disabled and memory is running at native speeds rather than overclocked speeds. I've also tested running my memory in dimms 1 & 3 rather than 2 & 4 as recommended and my mouse feel was noticeably better. The problem w/ running dimms 1 & 3 however is that I can't get XMP to work or run high frequencies without my OS crashing or not posting at all.

Alder lake to me seems to be completely FUBAR w/ a lot of issues that may vary from mobo to mobo. Ultimately I think the problem is rooted in memory and who knows if and when they fix this.

I'm using an ASUS TUF B550 PLUS- I think I get that different feel boot to boot as well. You think its worth trying Dimms 1+3?
When not booting, do you have to clear CMOS or just change back to defaults before booting again? Wondering if the hassle is worth tryin g it.
For starters I'd suggest disabling xmp and then playing whatever game it is that you play and you'll notice right away how much more responsive and consistent your mouse becomes. To do this, go into bios and put all your memory settings back to default (voltages, timings, anything you may have changed related to memory), then disable xmp and reboot. Also, make sure to disable fast boot in bios so your memory trains properly on each boot.

After you test your mouse with default memory settings, you can test running your ram in dimm's 1 & 3. If your memory settings remain at default settings you won't have to hard reset your PC like pulling the cmos batt, it should just retrain and boot.

Compare the differences for yourself. It was quite significant in my case. Right now I'm forced to run my high end Samsung b-die ram at effing defaults in the unrecommended dimm's for proper mouse responsiveness. Ridiculous.
and 1/3 does seem to be more responsive than 2/4 (Both running at JEDEC).
Two questions stim from this:
Is this specific to the vendor, in this case Asus Motherboards? (Both Ryzen and intel.)
Would the inconsistency in response between 1/3 and 2/4 be eliminated with a quad channel configuration? (4 DIMMs).

Going to post my JEDEC sub-timings in comparison to my XMP's auto-configured sub-timings when i get the chance.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Sep 2022, 18:09

2Victory wrote:
01 Sep 2022, 17:55
and 1/3 does seem to be more responsive than 2/4 (Both running at JEDEC).
Two questions stim from this:
Is this specific to the vendor, in this case Asus Motherboards? (Both Ryzen and intel.)
Would the inconsistency in response between 1/3 and 2/4 be eliminated with a quad channel configuration? (4 DIMMs).
Without testing your specific tweak, I can at least historically confirm that past similar optimizations have had been pretty crapshoot between motherboards -- one motherboard responds well to optimizations another motherboard does not respond to.

Also, some motherboards are like an optimization onion (sometimes because they're trying to stay stable at the expense of performance) -- so many layers to peel off the onion before something really definitively works -- and sometimes a pre-requisite setting (of worse lag) is hiding elsewhere -- preventing you from benefitting from a specific optimization, too. So some people get a real optimization, others a placebo, and others no effect at all.

Also, with some motherboards -- dynamic behaviorial changes without a way to alert you, are all a major PITA (e.g. a motherboard changing error correction algorithms in realtime that has different latencies, since some buses/protocols/cables have multiple different choices of error correction. Not too unlike DSL interleave vs fastpath, except it's on a motherboard circuit path, connector, or accessory cable. Ugh!). Harder to diagnose than thermal throttling related lags. A system pushed to its limits sometimes makes unilateral algorithmic decisions in order to prevent itself from crashing. Lag changes every reboot is a PITA.

P.S. Great move in including diagrammed screenshots in your first post! Forums love that stuff.
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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Sep 2022, 18:25

ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:42
This topic is becoming a joke... You guys are obsessing over things that make no difference, or actually make things worse Just install windows, install game, play game.

Like disabling HT?! :lol: I can understand disabling the e-cores, because of the ring clocks, but that's about it.
"yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary." Necessary? Your system has to be broken.
While there's a lot of wild goose chases to red herrings with these kinds of topics, I have to remind you that the refresh rate race makes ever-tinier lags more visible.

For example, a 1ms microstutter is completely invisible at sample-and-hold 480p 60Hz 16.7ms MPRT.

But a 1ms microstutter is a visible 4 pixel jump at 4000 pixels/sec on a strobed 4K 0.5ms MPRT display running at framerate=Hz. When MPRT in milliseconds falls below the stutter error, and the motion resolution is sharp enough (0.5ms MPRT = only 2 pixels of motion blur at 4000 pixels/sec = street labels on www.testufo.com/map is fully readable!).

A lot of this is a death-by-a-million microsecond stuff. Or even nanoseconds, since 1 million nanoseconds equals 1 millisecond. Sometimes tiny setting changes have a domino-effect of major changes, if it prevents a million micro-lag events per second, enough to save 1-2 milliseconds in human-visible or human-feelable clumps

Blur Busters is all about the Milliseconds Matters premise, see The Amazing Human Visible Feats of the Millisecond, and there are now situations where 0.5ms has become human visible because of the Vicious Cycle Effect (useful chapter in 1000Hz Journey article, but also applies to strobed screens where MPRT milliseconds falls to less than the stutter error margin in milliseconds).

Also, don't forget the Olympics finish-line effect, you don't need to feel the millisecond to win by the millisecond. Two people react at the same time, with same human reaction time. The equipment with 1ms less lag, is more likely to win, in a perfectly-equal situation (e.g. see each other at same time down a hallway, shoot at same time, etc -- like two Olympics sprinters crossing a finish line simultaneously). Other times, a millisecond creates a feelable/viewable event, as explained in this thread

Reference mouse jitter:

Image

An example of Razer 8KHz mouse making things smoother -- 2000Hz and 4000Hz poll rate looks human-visibly smoother than 1000Hz poll rate. That's less than a 1ms difference between the fastest pollrates!

If your mouse pointer movements worse than this reference mouse pointer jitter Hz for Hz (with clean mouse feet on all clean mouse pads), especially if you tried multiple mice, then you may have something you need to diagnose -- USB, motherboard, and other kinds of things -- and sometimes it may even be traced to something that is a "death by a million nanosecond cuts"!

If you have random latency issues on your motherboard, it will often jitter the mouse cursor (or FPS movements) worse than this reference researcher image. (PEER REVIWED CONFIRMED RESEARCH, Y'KNOW)

So if your mouse cursor is rougher than this image when you spin your mouse arrow in a circle, then you want to optimize until your mouse is reference-perfect to this image, as a random example -- so you know that your motherboard microlags isn't getting in the way. Yes, I have a Razer 8KHz, and a 0.5ms mouse cursor jitter is definitely human-visible, definitely feelable/seeable. It's not the same benchmark as a FPS game, but milliseconds add up -- like a death by a million nanosecond cuts.

Sometimes a thread definitely gets very far offtopic, and sometimes it's 90% placebo, but Blur Busters is famously an incubator of display tests that reveals ever tinier-and-tinier defects in the refresh rate race, as other weak links are removed (e.g. less display motion blur = other defects of the millisecond becomes human visible).

This thread isn't completely useless, but needs to be read critically. Some milliseconds are definitely not visible, but other milliseconds definitely are, and sometimes even those nanosecondy things actually build up if the nanosecondy events happen in surgey style (random chained surges of driver interrupts / IPC surges / ECC storms etc) enough to jitter up things in nearly-millisecond grainyness.

REMEMBER... The refresh rate race combined with higher resolutions -- amongst other factors -- is making the exact same "X ms" things even more human visible than it used to be.

Yes, a lot of placebos, but there's a lot of real problems too.

/micdrop
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 01 Sep 2022, 19:11

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
01 Sep 2022, 18:25

Sometimes a thread definitely gets very far offtopic, and sometimes it's 90% placebo, but Blur Busters is famously an incubator of display tests that reveals ever tinier-and-tinier defects in the refresh rate race, as other weak links are removed (e.g. less display motion blur = other defects of the millisecond becomes human visible).

This thread isn't completely useless, but needs to be read critically. Some milliseconds are definitely not visible, but other milliseconds definitely are, and sometimes even those nanosecondy things actually build up if the nanosecondy events happen in surgey style (random chained surges of driver interrupts / IPC surges / ECC storms etc) enough to jitter up things in nearly-millisecond grainyness.

REMEMBER... The refresh rate race combined with higher resolutions -- amongst other factors -- is making the exact same "X ms" things even more human visible than it used to be.

Yes, a lot of placebos, but there's a lot of real problems too.

/micdrop
When I first got this issue I began to approach it with decent reason, and minimalist tendencies.

I didn't have this problem on my old PC, so i assume whatever was congruent between this and my old one wasn't causing an issue, which filtered out about 80% of the "tweaks" people recommend.

I had thousands upon thousands of hours of muscle memory built up on a system that felt very consistent, to which i didn't make very many changes to.

Then i also began to apply Reason.

I contrast most of the actions trying to regain my mouse feel with what i think a CSGO/Val pro would often do.
In terms of Why Pro players, It's their job to be not only as consistent, but as good as possible when it comes to aim, this also comes alongside thousands of hours of mechanical muscle memory. If anyone were to notice a change in consistency, it would be them. I don't think pros are going full r0ach and hitting up 200 Bios settings and gutting windows to perform on a PC-to-PC basis, meaning they are most likely running everything close to stock as possible and still are able to consistently perform, and if they can, I should be able to as well.

Outside of straight up defective parts, i feel this is a good approach to take, as having a clean slate to establish what feels nice (and have it be basically changing nothing) make it easier down the road.

My first PC i ever built i assembled worse than The Verge's PC build and did absolutely not optimizations on (i didn't even know you had to enable XMP to get ram to run at it's rated speed), yet that thing is still the gold standard in terms of mouse feel. Everything else afterwards has felt less responsive than that machine. (2600X, Aorus B450M, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x4gb G.Skill Ripjaws V 2400Mhz CL-15-15-15-35.)

Melkxz
Posts: 30
Joined: 28 Feb 2022, 02:23

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Melkxz » 04 Sep 2022, 12:41

2Victory wrote:
01 Sep 2022, 17:55
Was having a similar experience on my new PC.

Specs:
Ryzen R9 5900X
Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero
RTX 3080
2x8gb Team T Force ARGB (TF10D416G3600HC14CDC01) Rated for 14-15-15-35 at 3600 MHz.

The RAM is the newest part of the system after swapping out a motherboard, and after compiling a bunch of data from people with similar issues, RAM is damn near always the cause, and could be for a variety of reasons.

This is the third kit of RAM i've tried in this PC, and it feels the most responsive out of all of my previous kits, but still feels most responsive at JEDEC (16-16-16-16-35-55) @ 2400MHz.

Melkxz wrote:
19 Jun 2022, 11:24
People were being sarcastic on this forum when I said I fixed my input lag mostly by using custom timing values.

I have corsair vengeance 3200mhz cas 16 on asus B550 rog strix (2/4 slots) :

recommanded timings : 16 - 18 - 18 - 36 - 54 for 3200mhz => unstable

Never got them stable for these values : had to increase tRC to 56 or lower ram speed to 3000mhz => stable input lag looks ok

XMP/DOCP profile gives me : 16 - 18 - 18 - 36 - 75 => insane input lag

It didn't fix all my mouse issues but my mouse went significantly snappier after this.
After seeing this, I was curious as to what timings my motherboard set for my RAM on it's XMP Profile. Turns out enabling XMP on this board just sets the primary timings, and leaves everything else on Auto. Opened CPU-Z and checked what the recommended XMP Profile was for my kit, and it a recommended tRC of 50, when my motherboards XMP profile sets it to 82

And that's only bad timings I know of.

My guess is most Ryzen Mobos (Or atleast both of the ASUS one's i've had.) XMP Profiles set the primary timings, and leaves the rest on Auto.

Auto then proceeds to give you probably the most loose sub-timings possible to Guarantee you are stable, because freshly installing some new RAM into a potentially new motherboard and immediately having bad stability would be a bad look.

Not only this, but i notice in GENERAL when comparing JEDEC to XMP, every single subtiming gets higher rather than lower, which i didn't think made sense considering when envisioning a standard RAM OC, they usually do the opposite.

This in itself would logically explain why JEDEC feels more responsive than XMP, as literally every subtiming is lower when running at JEDEC instead of the Auto-config subtimings on XMP.

Also, i would completely ignore other advice such as disabling HPET timers, XCHI handoff and the likes, as those are most likely trying to fix a problem with additional problems/complication than fixing it at it's root. I had no issues with any of those mobo settings previously (as my mobo pretty much ran at stock), so it wouldn't make sense to disable them now.

It's usually best to start with your system at stock, and if it feels like shit, and your old PC didn't, then it means it's probably not caused by traits shared across the PCs. (Windows, Processor platform, BIOS settings.), as this could follow you to every future build.

Reinstall windows if you need, clear your MOBO CMOS and start from there. test your mouse responsiveness in Kovaaks/in CSGO or what have you, and see if it's responsive.

Then i would try XMP, which the problem usually begins there.

The one common denominator for every experiencing this is their RAM changing in some way across systems.

The only Windows induced issue is Fullscreen Optimization, which is enabled on every program by default. (Which would mean it would follow you across PC builds as an issue.)
Image
Image

And there are sometimes issues caused by peripheral drivers installing incorrectly, which doesn't apply to Zowie mice (The brand i use.), as they only install one driver (as opposed to one mouse and one keyboard driver as seen from Logitech and Razer.) (Stay the hell away from Razer mice/peripherals.)
https://www.overclock.net/threads/how-t ... e.1750736/

If you have Razer software, uninstall it. It's bad driver and software-induced input lag/inconsistency hell.

Otherwise, there sometimes could be issues with drivers naturally, but is uncommon due to how many people reinstall windows nearly infinite times and download drivers from the source sites.

The way this problem looks to commonly shake out is it's either your RAM, or how your motherboard handle's your RAM.

Currently running my ram in DIMMS 1/3 instead of 2/4, as per this post:
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 23:46
Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:29
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:21


I have 2 z690 motherboards actually, the Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4 & the Asus Z690 TUF WIFI D4. The Asus board has better DDR4 compatibility than the gigabyte. I'd stay as far away from Gigabyte z690 boards as possible, they're complete garbage for DDR4 compatibility atm. Even though Asus has better XMP and DDR4 Samsung b-die compatibility, the mouse feel was also changing quite a bit from boot to boot.

W/ Alder lake I've also experienced weird occurrences like having a more responsive mouse when XMP is disabled and memory is running at native speeds rather than overclocked speeds. I've also tested running my memory in dimms 1 & 3 rather than 2 & 4 as recommended and my mouse feel was noticeably better. The problem w/ running dimms 1 & 3 however is that I can't get XMP to work or run high frequencies without my OS crashing or not posting at all.

Alder lake to me seems to be completely FUBAR w/ a lot of issues that may vary from mobo to mobo. Ultimately I think the problem is rooted in memory and who knows if and when they fix this.

I'm using an ASUS TUF B550 PLUS- I think I get that different feel boot to boot as well. You think its worth trying Dimms 1+3?
When not booting, do you have to clear CMOS or just change back to defaults before booting again? Wondering if the hassle is worth tryin g it.
For starters I'd suggest disabling xmp and then playing whatever game it is that you play and you'll notice right away how much more responsive and consistent your mouse becomes. To do this, go into bios and put all your memory settings back to default (voltages, timings, anything you may have changed related to memory), then disable xmp and reboot. Also, make sure to disable fast boot in bios so your memory trains properly on each boot.

After you test your mouse with default memory settings, you can test running your ram in dimm's 1 & 3. If your memory settings remain at default settings you won't have to hard reset your PC like pulling the cmos batt, it should just retrain and boot.

Compare the differences for yourself. It was quite significant in my case. Right now I'm forced to run my high end Samsung b-die ram at effing defaults in the unrecommended dimm's for proper mouse responsiveness. Ridiculous.
and 1/3 does seem to be more responsive than 2/4 (Both running at JEDEC).
Two questions stim from this:
Is this specific to the vendor, in this case Asus Motherboards? (Both Ryzen and intel.)
Would the inconsistency in response between 1/3 and 2/4 be eliminated with a quad channel configuration? (4 DIMMs).

Going to post my JEDEC sub-timings in comparison to my XMP's auto-configured sub-timings when i get the chance.
I edited most of my ram timings and I got great results from it. Like you said : asus'bios use the safest settings : you must disable c state AND DF C state too.

Now everything is running perfectly.

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 05 Sep 2022, 04:18

Melkxz wrote:
04 Sep 2022, 12:41
2Victory wrote:
01 Sep 2022, 17:55
Was having a similar experience on my new PC.

Specs:
Ryzen R9 5900X
Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero
RTX 3080
2x8gb Team T Force ARGB (TF10D416G3600HC14CDC01) Rated for 14-15-15-35 at 3600 MHz.

The RAM is the newest part of the system after swapping out a motherboard, and after compiling a bunch of data from people with similar issues, RAM is damn near always the cause, and could be for a variety of reasons.

This is the third kit of RAM i've tried in this PC, and it feels the most responsive out of all of my previous kits, but still feels most responsive at JEDEC (16-16-16-16-35-55) @ 2400MHz.

Melkxz wrote:
19 Jun 2022, 11:24
People were being sarcastic on this forum when I said I fixed my input lag mostly by using custom timing values.

I have corsair vengeance 3200mhz cas 16 on asus B550 rog strix (2/4 slots) :

recommanded timings : 16 - 18 - 18 - 36 - 54 for 3200mhz => unstable

Never got them stable for these values : had to increase tRC to 56 or lower ram speed to 3000mhz => stable input lag looks ok

XMP/DOCP profile gives me : 16 - 18 - 18 - 36 - 75 => insane input lag

It didn't fix all my mouse issues but my mouse went significantly snappier after this.
After seeing this, I was curious as to what timings my motherboard set for my RAM on it's XMP Profile. Turns out enabling XMP on this board just sets the primary timings, and leaves everything else on Auto. Opened CPU-Z and checked what the recommended XMP Profile was for my kit, and it a recommended tRC of 50, when my motherboards XMP profile sets it to 82

And that's only bad timings I know of.

My guess is most Ryzen Mobos (Or atleast both of the ASUS one's i've had.) XMP Profiles set the primary timings, and leaves the rest on Auto.

Auto then proceeds to give you probably the most loose sub-timings possible to Guarantee you are stable, because freshly installing some new RAM into a potentially new motherboard and immediately having bad stability would be a bad look.

Not only this, but i notice in GENERAL when comparing JEDEC to XMP, every single subtiming gets higher rather than lower, which i didn't think made sense considering when envisioning a standard RAM OC, they usually do the opposite.

This in itself would logically explain why JEDEC feels more responsive than XMP, as literally every subtiming is lower when running at JEDEC instead of the Auto-config subtimings on XMP.

Also, i would completely ignore other advice such as disabling HPET timers, XCHI handoff and the likes, as those are most likely trying to fix a problem with additional problems/complication than fixing it at it's root. I had no issues with any of those mobo settings previously (as my mobo pretty much ran at stock), so it wouldn't make sense to disable them now.

It's usually best to start with your system at stock, and if it feels like shit, and your old PC didn't, then it means it's probably not caused by traits shared across the PCs. (Windows, Processor platform, BIOS settings.), as this could follow you to every future build.

Reinstall windows if you need, clear your MOBO CMOS and start from there. test your mouse responsiveness in Kovaaks/in CSGO or what have you, and see if it's responsive.

Then i would try XMP, which the problem usually begins there.

The one common denominator for every experiencing this is their RAM changing in some way across systems.

The only Windows induced issue is Fullscreen Optimization, which is enabled on every program by default. (Which would mean it would follow you across PC builds as an issue.)
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And there are sometimes issues caused by peripheral drivers installing incorrectly, which doesn't apply to Zowie mice (The brand i use.), as they only install one driver (as opposed to one mouse and one keyboard driver as seen from Logitech and Razer.) (Stay the hell away from Razer mice/peripherals.)
https://www.overclock.net/threads/how-t ... e.1750736/

If you have Razer software, uninstall it. It's bad driver and software-induced input lag/inconsistency hell.

Otherwise, there sometimes could be issues with drivers naturally, but is uncommon due to how many people reinstall windows nearly infinite times and download drivers from the source sites.

The way this problem looks to commonly shake out is it's either your RAM, or how your motherboard handle's your RAM.

Currently running my ram in DIMMS 1/3 instead of 2/4, as per this post:
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 23:46
Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:29



I'm using an ASUS TUF B550 PLUS- I think I get that different feel boot to boot as well. You think its worth trying Dimms 1+3?
When not booting, do you have to clear CMOS or just change back to defaults before booting again? Wondering if the hassle is worth tryin g it.
For starters I'd suggest disabling xmp and then playing whatever game it is that you play and you'll notice right away how much more responsive and consistent your mouse becomes. To do this, go into bios and put all your memory settings back to default (voltages, timings, anything you may have changed related to memory), then disable xmp and reboot. Also, make sure to disable fast boot in bios so your memory trains properly on each boot.

After you test your mouse with default memory settings, you can test running your ram in dimm's 1 & 3. If your memory settings remain at default settings you won't have to hard reset your PC like pulling the cmos batt, it should just retrain and boot.

Compare the differences for yourself. It was quite significant in my case. Right now I'm forced to run my high end Samsung b-die ram at effing defaults in the unrecommended dimm's for proper mouse responsiveness. Ridiculous.
and 1/3 does seem to be more responsive than 2/4 (Both running at JEDEC).
Two questions stim from this:
Is this specific to the vendor, in this case Asus Motherboards? (Both Ryzen and intel.)
Would the inconsistency in response between 1/3 and 2/4 be eliminated with a quad channel configuration? (4 DIMMs).

Going to post my JEDEC sub-timings in comparison to my XMP's auto-configured sub-timings when i get the chance.
I edited most of my ram timings and I got great results from it. Like you said : asus'bios use the safest settings : you must disable c state AND DF C state too.

Now everything is running perfectly.
is there any specific resource/technique you used to tune down your timings to the lowest possible stable timings?

R1sk
Posts: 21
Joined: 19 May 2020, 13:17

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by R1sk » 05 Sep 2022, 05:41

@2victory

What is your Zowie Mouse brand model ?

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