input lag on newer pcs

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Melkxz
Posts: 30
Joined: 28 Feb 2022, 02:23

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Melkxz » 05 Sep 2022, 07:10

2Victory wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 04:18


is there any specific resource/technique you used to tune down your timings to the lowest possible stable timings?
I started with hardwared Unboxed's youtube tutorial to custom ram timings.

You need DRAM Calculator for ryzen, Thaiphoon (for advanced ram timings table/extract info about your ram that you can export to the RYZEN dram calculator).

But I didn't really followed that guide, i mostly use it to compare my values and see if something was strange.

I checked with aida64 if I had improvements when i felt I had to change some settings. Started at 90ns and ended at 60ns (I think it should be near the best latency that my ram has to offer).

I mostly use a reddit guide that explain what every settings (timings + ram settings) does and if you should edit it. That was really usefull for timings and options!
I'll try to link it.

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 05 Sep 2022, 16:19

R1sk wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 05:41
@2victory

What is your Zowie Mouse brand model ?
Zowie S2-C

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 06 Sep 2022, 16:38

Melkxz wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 07:10
2Victory wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 04:18


is there any specific resource/technique you used to tune down your timings to the lowest possible stable timings?
I started with hardwared Unboxed's youtube tutorial to custom ram timings.

You need DRAM Calculator for ryzen, Thaiphoon (for advanced ram timings table/extract info about your ram that you can export to the RYZEN dram calculator).

But I didn't really followed that guide, i mostly use it to compare my values and see if something was strange.

I checked with aida64 if I had improvements when i felt I had to change some settings. Started at 90ns and ended at 60ns (I think it should be near the best latency that my ram has to offer).

I mostly use a reddit guide that explain what every settings (timings + ram settings) does and if you should edit it. That was really usefull for timings and options!
I'll try to link it.
At 60 ns after changing my tRC from 82 to 50 per SPD. (Believe it was 70+ before.)
Just need to figure out if there is anything else that should be tightened.

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 07 Sep 2022, 16:41

2Victory wrote:
06 Sep 2022, 16:38
Melkxz wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 07:10
2Victory wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 04:18


is there any specific resource/technique you used to tune down your timings to the lowest possible stable timings?
I started with hardwared Unboxed's youtube tutorial to custom ram timings.

You need DRAM Calculator for ryzen, Thaiphoon (for advanced ram timings table/extract info about your ram that you can export to the RYZEN dram calculator).

But I didn't really followed that guide, i mostly use it to compare my values and see if something was strange.

I checked with aida64 if I had improvements when i felt I had to change some settings. Started at 90ns and ended at 60ns (I think it should be near the best latency that my ram has to offer).

I mostly use a reddit guide that explain what every settings (timings + ram settings) does and if you should edit it. That was really usefull for timings and options!
I'll try to link it.
At 60 ns after changing my tRC from 82 to 50 per SPD. (Believe it was 70+ before.)
Just need to figure out if there is anything else that should be tightened.
Considering getting a 10900k + MSI Z490-A Pro and keeping my ram the same to improve mouse feel to it's best available.
I've heard the 10th gen was the last gen before they went chiplet from monodie, making the 10900k have lower latency than 11th and 12th gen. 9900k is more expensive than the 12900k so that's not really an option.

Never really heard of anyone complain about mouse feel with a 10900k and an MSI board, good RAM with all the previous tweaks should secure profit.

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 07 Sep 2022, 17:13

2Victory wrote:
06 Sep 2022, 16:38
Melkxz wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 07:10
2Victory wrote:
05 Sep 2022, 04:18


is there any specific resource/technique you used to tune down your timings to the lowest possible stable timings?
I started with hardwared Unboxed's youtube tutorial to custom ram timings.

You need DRAM Calculator for ryzen, Thaiphoon (for advanced ram timings table/extract info about your ram that you can export to the RYZEN dram calculator).

But I didn't really followed that guide, i mostly use it to compare my values and see if something was strange.

I checked with aida64 if I had improvements when i felt I had to change some settings. Started at 90ns and ended at 60ns (I think it should be near the best latency that my ram has to offer).

I mostly use a reddit guide that explain what every settings (timings + ram settings) does and if you should edit it. That was really usefull for timings and options!
I'll try to link it.
At 60 ns after changing my tRC from 82 to 50 per SPD. (Believe it was 70+ before.)
Just need to figure out if there is anything else that should be tightened.
Considering getting a 10900k + MSI Z490-A Pro and keeping my ram the same to improve mouse feel to it's best available.
I've heard the 10th gen was the last gen before they went chiplet from monodie, making the 10900k have lower latency than 11th and 12th gen. 9900k is more expensive than the 12900k so that's not really an option.

Never really heard of anyone complain about mouse feel with a 10900k and an MSI board, good RAM with all the previous tweaks should secure results.

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 07 Sep 2022, 21:36

Update:

Been trying out different BIOS configurations to see which settings provided the best responsiveness. This usually involved me messing with certain RAM timings or other BIOS settings.
Melkxz wrote:
19 Jun 2022, 11:24
People were being sarcastic on this forum when I said I fixed my input lag mostly by using custom timing values.

I have corsair vengeance 3200mhz cas 16 on asus B550 rog strix (2/4 slots) :

recommanded timings : 16 - 18 - 18 - 36 - 54 for 3200mhz => unstable

Never got them stable for these values : had to increase tRC to 56 or lower ram speed to 3000mhz => stable input lag looks ok

XMP/DOCP profile gives me : 16 - 18 - 18 - 36 - 75 => insane input lag

It didn't fix all my mouse issues but my mouse went significantly snappier after this.
This post sparked me going into my bios and changing around some RAM timings to see if it could get more responsive.

My BIOS (at D.O.C.P.) defaulted my ram to 14-15-15-15-35-82, rather than 50 as per my RAM's SPD.

First i tried stock D.O.C.P, which was decent, but far from the best, but was better than every other RAM kit i've tested, as 3600 CL14 is pretty quick compared to other RAM kits, even at 2T.

Stock D.O.C.P. Timings with a command rate of 1T, Gear Down Mode disabled.

14-15-15-35-50, 1T, GDM Disabled.

14-15-15-15-50, 16 TFAW (compared to D.O.C.P 38), 1T, GDM Disabled.

14-15-15-15-50, 16 TFAW, GDM Disabled, PDM Disabled, CState and DF C states disabled, 1T.

and 14-15-15-15-82, 16 TFAW, 1T, GDM Disabled.

After testing each configuration and clearing CMOS each time, i've come to find out that Running my RAM at default D.O.C.P. Settings with GDM Disabled, 1T, and TFAW at 16 provided the best responsiveness so far.

Lowering tRC seemed to not help in providing more responsiveness, even with lowered TFAW (If i had to guess, it's probably because that config wasn't stable). Command rate of 1T with GDM disabled also aided in better responsiveness.

82 tRC may be well over the tRC my RAM has for it's OC Config on the SPD, but i guess it's more important that your ram be stable before fast. I'm guessing i can lower my tRC quite a bit (alongside tRFC too) by a decent amount as they are quite high for samsung B-die, and achieve even better responsiveness, but i'm inexperienced with how to get the most out of those values without making my ram unstable.

If anyone knows that'd be great.

Melkxz
Posts: 30
Joined: 28 Feb 2022, 02:23

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Melkxz » 08 Sep 2022, 08:12

I think you must find your safe value for tRC 1st : the lowest value possible with no errors.

I find an interesting guide to start
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd- ... ing-guide/
"tRC >= tRAS + tRP" => so you should try 51

There's a lot of voltage settings that you can play with to add to your ram stability, I ll took photos of my bios when I have time. Maybe it can help.

I don't think you should switch to intel. I went from a 3-4/10 (6-7 the good days) mouse feeling to a 10/10 every boot.
If you didn't already did it : lock your CPU clock with custom CPU voltage (i use 1,22v for 4,5ghz) / GPU clock (+underclock with MSI afterB and check "apply every boot"). Always use safe values.

Melkxz
Posts: 30
Joined: 28 Feb 2022, 02:23

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Melkxz » 08 Sep 2022, 08:34

Custom voltage I use :
DRAM Volt : 1,35 (normal DOCP)
VPP_Mem Voltage 2,550v
VDDP Standby Voltage : 0,95

Custom Ram settings :
CAS RCD RP RAS from DOCP + custom RC
FAW RRDS RRDL : obtained from taiphoon (give a more detailled ram timing table with Faw RRDR RRDL).

TrFc 559 => My numbers were strange with the standard DOCP (they were not in that order x>y>z).
TrFc2 415
TrFc4 255

Proc ODT 53,3ohm : should be between 40 and 60 I believe. I got this value from the calculator, same for the following values :
1T
GearD/Power Down : Disabled
RttNom :Disabled
RttWR:Off
RTTPark:RZQ/5

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 08 Sep 2022, 11:45

Melkxz wrote:
08 Sep 2022, 08:34
Custom voltage I use :
DRAM Volt : 1,35 (normal DOCP)
VPP_Mem Voltage 2,550v
VDDP Standby Voltage : 0,95

Custom Ram settings :
CAS RCD RP RAS from DOCP + custom RC
FAW RRDS RRDL : obtained from taiphoon (give a more detailled ram timing table with Faw RRDR RRDL).

TrFc 559 => My numbers were strange with the standard DOCP (they were not in that order x>y>z).
TrFc2 415
TrFc4 255

Proc ODT 53,3ohm : should be between 40 and 60 I believe. I got this value from the calculator, same for the following values :
1T
GearD/Power Down : Disabled
RttNom :Disabled
RttWR:Off
RTTPark:RZQ/5
Melkxz wrote:
08 Sep 2022, 08:12
I think you must find your safe value for tRC 1st : the lowest value possible with no errors.

I find an interesting guide to start
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd- ... ing-guide/
"tRC >= tRAS + tRP" => so you should try 51

There's a lot of voltage settings that you can play with to add to your ram stability, I ll took photos of my bios when I have time. Maybe it can help.

I don't think you should switch to intel. I went from a 3-4/10 (6-7 the good days) mouse feeling to a 10/10 every boot.
If you didn't already did it : lock your CPU clock with custom CPU voltage (i use 1,22v for 4,5ghz) / GPU clock (+underclock with MSI afterB and check "apply every boot"). Always use safe values.
Haven't locked my cpu/gpu voltage, will test this.
My ram runs at 1.45V 14-15-15-15-35 @3600 mhz

Some subtimings are vastly different between our kits, and from what the dram calc tells me. My mobo auto-configs my tRFC, tRFC2, and tRFC4 to 312, 192, 132, and the calc gives me values much higher than those.

2Victory
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by 2Victory » 08 Sep 2022, 12:05

Melkxz wrote:
08 Sep 2022, 08:12
I think you must find your safe value for tRC 1st : the lowest value possible with no errors.

I find an interesting guide to start
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd- ... ing-guide/
"tRC >= tRAS + tRP" => so you should try 51

There's a lot of voltage settings that you can play with to add to your ram stability, I ll took photos of my bios when I have time. Maybe it can help.

I don't think you should switch to intel. I went from a 3-4/10 (6-7 the good days) mouse feeling to a 10/10 every boot.
If you didn't already did it : lock your CPU clock with custom CPU voltage (i use 1,22v for 4,5ghz) / GPU clock (+underclock with MSI afterB and check "apply every boot"). Always use safe values.
How much did you underclock your GPU and good did you find that amount? Same with CPU Voltage.

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