input lag on newer pcs

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kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by kokkatc » 20 Jun 2022, 14:02

So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.

All of my kits are samsung b-die and not a single one of them run properly on xmp. XMP just doesn't seem to work. I have to make adjustments to system agent, dram voltage, training voltage and even termination settings just to get XMP to boot and when it does boot, the mouse can feel great one moment and then feel like it's in mud another moment. What I noticed in my situation is that my RTLS are constantly changing, so memory training just appears to be broken as well. Once I found good rtl/iol settings I'd try and lock them in but my mouse feel was always changing. Games also don't feel great at high FPS. The game just feels like it's in mud along w/ movement and mouse feel when it's misbehaving.

I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.

Shade7
Posts: 222
Joined: 25 May 2022, 18:44

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Shade7 » 20 Jun 2022, 15:42

kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 14:02
So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.


I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.
Just curious- any chance you have an ASUS mobo?

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by kokkatc » 20 Jun 2022, 17:21

Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 15:42
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 14:02
So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.


I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.
Just curious- any chance you have an ASUS mobo?
I have 2 z690 motherboards actually, the Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4 & the Asus Z690 TUF WIFI D4. The Asus board has better DDR4 compatibility than the gigabyte. I'd stay as far away from Gigabyte z690 boards as possible, they're complete garbage for DDR4 compatibility atm. Even though Asus has better XMP and DDR4 Samsung b-die compatibility, the mouse feel was also changing quite a bit from boot to boot.

W/ Alder lake I've also experienced weird occurrences like having a more responsive mouse when XMP is disabled and memory is running at native speeds rather than overclocked speeds. I've also tested running my memory in dimms 1 & 3 rather than 2 & 4 as recommended and my mouse feel was noticeably better. The problem w/ running dimms 1 & 3 however is that I can't get XMP to work or run high frequencies without my OS crashing or not posting at all.

Alder lake to me seems to be completely FUBAR w/ a lot of issues that may vary from mobo to mobo. Ultimately I think the problem is rooted in memory and who knows if and when they fix this.

Shade7
Posts: 222
Joined: 25 May 2022, 18:44

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Shade7 » 20 Jun 2022, 17:29

kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:21
Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 15:42
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 14:02
So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.


I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.
Just curious- any chance you have an ASUS mobo?
I have 2 z690 motherboards actually, the Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4 & the Asus Z690 TUF WIFI D4. The Asus board has better DDR4 compatibility than the gigabyte. I'd stay as far away from Gigabyte z690 boards as possible, they're complete garbage for DDR4 compatibility atm. Even though Asus has better XMP and DDR4 Samsung b-die compatibility, the mouse feel was also changing quite a bit from boot to boot.

W/ Alder lake I've also experienced weird occurrences like having a more responsive mouse when XMP is disabled and memory is running at native speeds rather than overclocked speeds. I've also tested running my memory in dimms 1 & 3 rather than 2 & 4 as recommended and my mouse feel was noticeably better. The problem w/ running dimms 1 & 3 however is that I can't get XMP to work or run high frequencies without my OS crashing or not posting at all.

Alder lake to me seems to be completely FUBAR w/ a lot of issues that may vary from mobo to mobo. Ultimately I think the problem is rooted in memory and who knows if and when they fix this.

I'm using an ASUS TUF B550 PLUS- I think I get that different feel boot to boot as well. You think its worth trying Dimms 1+3?
When not booting, do you have to clear CMOS or just change back to defaults before booting again? Wondering if the hassle is worth tryin g it.

Slender
Posts: 573
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Slender » 20 Jun 2022, 17:34

kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 14:02
So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.

All of my kits are samsung b-die and not a single one of them run properly on xmp. XMP just doesn't seem to work. I have to make adjustments to system agent, dram voltage, training voltage and even termination settings just to get XMP to boot and when it does boot, the mouse can feel great one moment and then feel like it's in mud another moment. What I noticed in my situation is that my RTLS are constantly changing, so memory training just appears to be broken as well. Once I found good rtl/iol settings I'd try and lock them in but my mouse feel was always changing. Games also don't feel great at high FPS. The game just feels like it's in mud along w/ movement and mouse feel when it's misbehaving.

I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.
i create thread about alder lake issue
have 2 big problem
ram and timer
after i move from z390 + 9700k, i feel difference, alder lake = trash
https://www.overclock.net/threads/asus- ... t-28964130
asus z690 very bad. i have z690-p d4
this is trash.
just try any msi board or ignore alder lake

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by kokkatc » 20 Jun 2022, 23:46

Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:29
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:21
Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 15:42
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 14:02
So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.


I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.
Just curious- any chance you have an ASUS mobo?
I have 2 z690 motherboards actually, the Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4 & the Asus Z690 TUF WIFI D4. The Asus board has better DDR4 compatibility than the gigabyte. I'd stay as far away from Gigabyte z690 boards as possible, they're complete garbage for DDR4 compatibility atm. Even though Asus has better XMP and DDR4 Samsung b-die compatibility, the mouse feel was also changing quite a bit from boot to boot.

W/ Alder lake I've also experienced weird occurrences like having a more responsive mouse when XMP is disabled and memory is running at native speeds rather than overclocked speeds. I've also tested running my memory in dimms 1 & 3 rather than 2 & 4 as recommended and my mouse feel was noticeably better. The problem w/ running dimms 1 & 3 however is that I can't get XMP to work or run high frequencies without my OS crashing or not posting at all.

Alder lake to me seems to be completely FUBAR w/ a lot of issues that may vary from mobo to mobo. Ultimately I think the problem is rooted in memory and who knows if and when they fix this.

I'm using an ASUS TUF B550 PLUS- I think I get that different feel boot to boot as well. You think its worth trying Dimms 1+3?
When not booting, do you have to clear CMOS or just change back to defaults before booting again? Wondering if the hassle is worth tryin g it.
For starters I'd suggest disabling xmp and then playing whatever game it is that you play and you'll notice right away how much more responsive and consistent your mouse becomes. To do this, go into bios and put all your memory settings back to default (voltages, timings, anything you may have changed related to memory), then disable xmp and reboot. Also, make sure to disable fast boot in bios so your memory trains properly on each boot.

After you test your mouse with default memory settings, you can test running your ram in dimm's 1 & 3. If your memory settings remain at default settings you won't have to hard reset your PC like pulling the cmos batt, it should just retrain and boot.

Compare the differences for yourself. It was quite significant in my case. Right now I'm forced to run my high end Samsung b-die ram at effing defaults in the unrecommended dimm's for proper mouse responsiveness. Ridiculous.

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by kokkatc » 20 Jun 2022, 23:53

Slender wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:34
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 14:02
So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.

All of my kits are samsung b-die and not a single one of them run properly on xmp. XMP just doesn't seem to work. I have to make adjustments to system agent, dram voltage, training voltage and even termination settings just to get XMP to boot and when it does boot, the mouse can feel great one moment and then feel like it's in mud another moment. What I noticed in my situation is that my RTLS are constantly changing, so memory training just appears to be broken as well. Once I found good rtl/iol settings I'd try and lock them in but my mouse feel was always changing. Games also don't feel great at high FPS. The game just feels like it's in mud along w/ movement and mouse feel when it's misbehaving.

I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.
i create thread about alder lake issue
have 2 big problem
ram and timer
after i move from z390 + 9700k, i feel difference, alder lake = trash
https://www.overclock.net/threads/asus- ... t-28964130
asus z690 very bad. i have z690-p d4
this is trash.
just try any msi board or ignore alder lake
Funny that you say that. I just purchased a MSI z690-a Pro yesterday because from what I've read and seen, MSI is the only brand for z690 that ram works correctly. Wish I knew this sooner....

Sounds like we have the same problem. I came from z390 9700k as well and alder lake has not been good to me. Are you going to switch back or possibly go AMD? AMD Ryzen latency is a good deal higher due to their CPU architecture so I was never too enthusiastic about going AMD.

Shade7
Posts: 222
Joined: 25 May 2022, 18:44

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Shade7 » 21 Jun 2022, 00:46

kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 23:46
Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:29
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:21
Shade7 wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 15:42


Just curious- any chance you have an ASUS mobo?
I have 2 z690 motherboards actually, the Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite AX DDR4 & the Asus Z690 TUF WIFI D4. The Asus board has better DDR4 compatibility than the gigabyte. I'd stay as far away from Gigabyte z690 boards as possible, they're complete garbage for DDR4 compatibility atm. Even though Asus has better XMP and DDR4 Samsung b-die compatibility, the mouse feel was also changing quite a bit from boot to boot.

W/ Alder lake I've also experienced weird occurrences like having a more responsive mouse when XMP is disabled and memory is running at native speeds rather than overclocked speeds. I've also tested running my memory in dimms 1 & 3 rather than 2 & 4 as recommended and my mouse feel was noticeably better. The problem w/ running dimms 1 & 3 however is that I can't get XMP to work or run high frequencies without my OS crashing or not posting at all.

Alder lake to me seems to be completely FUBAR w/ a lot of issues that may vary from mobo to mobo. Ultimately I think the problem is rooted in memory and who knows if and when they fix this.

I'm using an ASUS TUF B550 PLUS- I think I get that different feel boot to boot as well. You think its worth trying Dimms 1+3?
When not booting, do you have to clear CMOS or just change back to defaults before booting again? Wondering if the hassle is worth tryin g it.
For starters I'd suggest disabling xmp and then playing whatever game it is that you play and you'll notice right away how much more responsive and consistent your mouse becomes. To do this, go into bios and put all your memory settings back to default (voltages, timings, anything you may have changed related to memory), then disable xmp and reboot. Also, make sure to disable fast boot in bios so your memory trains properly on each boot.

After you test your mouse with default memory settings, you can test running your ram in dimm's 1 & 3. If your memory settings remain at default settings you won't have to hard reset your PC like pulling the cmos batt, it should just retrain and boot.

Compare the differences for yourself. It was quite significant in my case. Right now I'm forced to run my high end Samsung b-die ram at effing defaults in the unrecommended dimm's for proper mouse responsiveness. Ridiculous.
I've tried running default for a game or two a few weeks back. It felt good. I don't remember if it felt life changing, but definitely felt surprisingly good for running at 2133Mhz. I wonder if it was the low latency timings at play. My fps didn't seem to change too much as I cap at 300 anyways for Valorant.

Any idea why this is happening?

Slender
Posts: 573
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Slender » 21 Jun 2022, 00:49

kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 23:53
Slender wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 17:34
kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 14:02
So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.

All of my kits are samsung b-die and not a single one of them run properly on xmp. XMP just doesn't seem to work. I have to make adjustments to system agent, dram voltage, training voltage and even termination settings just to get XMP to boot and when it does boot, the mouse can feel great one moment and then feel like it's in mud another moment. What I noticed in my situation is that my RTLS are constantly changing, so memory training just appears to be broken as well. Once I found good rtl/iol settings I'd try and lock them in but my mouse feel was always changing. Games also don't feel great at high FPS. The game just feels like it's in mud along w/ movement and mouse feel when it's misbehaving.

I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.
i create thread about alder lake issue
have 2 big problem
ram and timer
after i move from z390 + 9700k, i feel difference, alder lake = trash
https://www.overclock.net/threads/asus- ... t-28964130
asus z690 very bad. i have z690-p d4
this is trash.
just try any msi board or ignore alder lake
Funny that you say that. I just purchased a MSI z690-a Pro yesterday because from what I've read and seen, MSI is the only brand for z690 that ram works correctly. Wish I knew this sooner....

Sounds like we have the same problem. I came from z390 9700k as well and alder lake has not been good to me. Are you going to switch back or possibly go AMD? AMD Ryzen latency is a good deal higher due to their CPU architecture so I was never too enthusiastic about going AMD.

I do not know what to do.
I am attracted to the 5800x.
the inter-core latency is very low, lower than on any other processor. Plus, it has its own USB, and pci gen4. What you think about it?

Second Variant i7-10700kf and z490 platform

msi z690 solved your weird mice, or not 100% solution on this platform?

Vocaleyes
Posts: 287
Joined: 09 Nov 2021, 18:10

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Vocaleyes » 21 Jun 2022, 07:18

Am using an ASUS ROG Z390 strix-f + 9900kf, which is coffee lake.

Seems like it may be a board/ chipset issue?

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