input lag on newer pcs

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Slender
Posts: 573
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Slender » 22 Jun 2022, 13:46

kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 11:03
Slender wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:56
kokkatc wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:50
Slender wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 17:23


I'm really looking forward to your updates.
I'm thinking of switching to the 5800x, but I'm not sure that this will give any gain, although on paper it's a very good processor, maybe it's worth playing around with the settings? I've heard that ryzen doesn't like some bcdedit and timers.



thanks, try it
Update #1: Switching to MSI z690-a Pro on Alder Lake. I didn't have a lot of time tonight but I was able to yank out my existing gigabyte z690 aorus elite ax ddr4 and install my new msi board. I installed one of my high end Samsung b die kits (3600/32gb/cl14) kit. This kit refused work in xmp mode on both my gigabyte and Asus z690 boards. I was able to get it to work at 3500 but it wasn't training properly and my mouse felt horrible. Good news! It trained right away and booted up in XMP mode on my first try! Ran TM5 for 15m and it appears to be stable. Jumped in a game briefly and it felt good. I'll need more time to test. I was loading my existing OS install so it wasn't a clean install I was operating on, I just wanted to get an idea.

Spent the last hour I had reinstalling my OS and will continue testing tomorrow. So far so good. The MSI z690 board worked in XMP on a kit not even on the qvl list, so that's very comforting. More to come tomo.
all z690 and alder lake have timer issue, after reboot or on startup take 3!!! another timer resolution with different feelings.
Please, test it with bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes
+ default timer res (1ms), it will stable timer res to 1 or 0.5ms (i dont recomended 0.5)
thanks for update.
FYI, for my Alder Lake build I use Windows 11 since it's basically required because of the thread director. Windows 11 by default will run at exactly .5ms w/ timer resolution. Sometimes it's .503 or .496 on the first click, but it goes to .5ms by the second click w/ timer resolution. Windows 11 timer resolution has changed. Most of the time it goes directly to .5ms. Are you on windows 10 by chance? I've done A LOT of bcdedit testing over the years and ultimately decided that useplatformtick yes is bad. Even disabledynamictick yes appeared to add some kind of desync, especially on 11. Even though the mouse appeared to become more consistent, it added input lag for me. Maybe that's not the case on all builds but that was always the case for me. On Windows 11 specifically I get the best results w/ leaving bcdedit settings @ default.

I'll test useplatformtick yes for you regardless and let you know.
yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary.
yes, im use win10, win 11 have change with timer res.
but on win11 i have much dpc latency on usb controller.
and yes, disabledynamicktick yes ruine aim.

Shade7
Posts: 222
Joined: 25 May 2022, 18:44

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Shade7 » 22 Jun 2022, 14:03

kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 11:03
Slender wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:56
kokkatc wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:50
Slender wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 17:23


I'm really looking forward to your updates.
I'm thinking of switching to the 5800x, but I'm not sure that this will give any gain, although on paper it's a very good processor, maybe it's worth playing around with the settings? I've heard that ryzen doesn't like some bcdedit and timers.



thanks, try it
Update #1: Switching to MSI z690-a Pro on Alder Lake. I didn't have a lot of time tonight but I was able to yank out my existing gigabyte z690 aorus elite ax ddr4 and install my new msi board. I installed one of my high end Samsung b die kits (3600/32gb/cl14) kit. This kit refused work in xmp mode on both my gigabyte and Asus z690 boards. I was able to get it to work at 3500 but it wasn't training properly and my mouse felt horrible. Good news! It trained right away and booted up in XMP mode on my first try! Ran TM5 for 15m and it appears to be stable. Jumped in a game briefly and it felt good. I'll need more time to test. I was loading my existing OS install so it wasn't a clean install I was operating on, I just wanted to get an idea.

Spent the last hour I had reinstalling my OS and will continue testing tomorrow. So far so good. The MSI z690 board worked in XMP on a kit not even on the qvl list, so that's very comforting. More to come tomo.
all z690 and alder lake have timer issue, after reboot or on startup take 3!!! another timer resolution with different feelings.
Please, test it with bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes
+ default timer res (1ms), it will stable timer res to 1 or 0.5ms (i dont recomended 0.5)
thanks for update.
FYI, for my Alder Lake build I use Windows 11 since it's basically required because of the thread director. Windows 11 by default will run at exactly .5ms w/ timer resolution. Sometimes it's .503 or .496 on the first click, but it goes to .5ms by the second click w/ timer resolution. Windows 11 timer resolution has changed. Most of the time it goes directly to .5ms. Are you on windows 10 by chance? I've done A LOT of bcdedit testing over the years and ultimately decided that useplatformtick yes is bad. Even disabledynamictick yes appeared to add some kind of desync, especially on 11. Even though the mouse appeared to become more consistent, it added input lag for me. Maybe that's not the case on all builds but that was always the case for me. On Windows 11 specifically I get the best results w/ leaving bcdedit settings @ default.

I'll test useplatformtick yes for you regardless and let you know.
Just clarifying, you leave bcdedits on default for Win11, but are still using a timer tool to set 0.5ms- correct?

Is it worth doing that or just leaving default timer (prob 1ms for games).

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by kokkatc » 22 Jun 2022, 15:34

Shade7 wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 14:03
kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 11:03
Slender wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:56
kokkatc wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:50


Update #1: Switching to MSI z690-a Pro on Alder Lake. I didn't have a lot of time tonight but I was able to yank out my existing gigabyte z690 aorus elite ax ddr4 and install my new msi board. I installed one of my high end Samsung b die kits (3600/32gb/cl14) kit. This kit refused work in xmp mode on both my gigabyte and Asus z690 boards. I was able to get it to work at 3500 but it wasn't training properly and my mouse felt horrible. Good news! It trained right away and booted up in XMP mode on my first try! Ran TM5 for 15m and it appears to be stable. Jumped in a game briefly and it felt good. I'll need more time to test. I was loading my existing OS install so it wasn't a clean install I was operating on, I just wanted to get an idea.

Spent the last hour I had reinstalling my OS and will continue testing tomorrow. So far so good. The MSI z690 board worked in XMP on a kit not even on the qvl list, so that's very comforting. More to come tomo.
all z690 and alder lake have timer issue, after reboot or on startup take 3!!! another timer resolution with different feelings.
Please, test it with bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes
+ default timer res (1ms), it will stable timer res to 1 or 0.5ms (i dont recomended 0.5)
thanks for update.
FYI, for my Alder Lake build I use Windows 11 since it's basically required because of the thread director. Windows 11 by default will run at exactly .5ms w/ timer resolution. Sometimes it's .503 or .496 on the first click, but it goes to .5ms by the second click w/ timer resolution. Windows 11 timer resolution has changed. Most of the time it goes directly to .5ms. Are you on windows 10 by chance? I've done A LOT of bcdedit testing over the years and ultimately decided that useplatformtick yes is bad. Even disabledynamictick yes appeared to add some kind of desync, especially on 11. Even though the mouse appeared to become more consistent, it added input lag for me. Maybe that's not the case on all builds but that was always the case for me. On Windows 11 specifically I get the best results w/ leaving bcdedit settings @ default.

I'll test useplatformtick yes for you regardless and let you know.
Just clarifying, you leave bcdedits on default for Win11, but are still using a timer tool to set 0.5ms- correct?

Is it worth doing that or just leaving default timer (prob 1ms for games).
Yes, that's correct. Since Windows 10 2004, I leave all BCDEDIT commands @ default. Useplatformtick YES added noticeable input lag and disabledynamictick YES somehow increased mouse sensitivity/acceleration, plus in game hit detections became delayed and just off and bizarre. Another way of explaining that phenomenon is that it felt like I was experiencing some form of desync. So on Windows 11, default bcdedit settings appear to be best from my viewpoint.

As for timer resolution, yes, I ALWAYS USE THIS when gaming and I set it to .5ms. Timer resolution and bcdedit can be seen as two separate things. Many BCDEDIT commands determine which system timer is being used and how whereas timer resolution determines how often your system fires off interrupts. Always use a timer resolution tool when gaming. I have heard from many people that some prefer 1ms vs .05ms but I most definitely prefer .5ms. I notice it most w/ hit detection. Hits become consistent w/ no weird audio glitches @ .5ms where 1ms hit detection isn't as consistent nor are the audio cues from hits. I'll have to make a video one of these days explaining this phenomenon.
Last edited by kokkatc on 22 Jun 2022, 15:48, edited 1 time in total.

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by kokkatc » 22 Jun 2022, 15:43

Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 13:46
kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 11:03
Slender wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:56
kokkatc wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:50


Update #1: Switching to MSI z690-a Pro on Alder Lake. I didn't have a lot of time tonight but I was able to yank out my existing gigabyte z690 aorus elite ax ddr4 and install my new msi board. I installed one of my high end Samsung b die kits (3600/32gb/cl14) kit. This kit refused work in xmp mode on both my gigabyte and Asus z690 boards. I was able to get it to work at 3500 but it wasn't training properly and my mouse felt horrible. Good news! It trained right away and booted up in XMP mode on my first try! Ran TM5 for 15m and it appears to be stable. Jumped in a game briefly and it felt good. I'll need more time to test. I was loading my existing OS install so it wasn't a clean install I was operating on, I just wanted to get an idea.

Spent the last hour I had reinstalling my OS and will continue testing tomorrow. So far so good. The MSI z690 board worked in XMP on a kit not even on the qvl list, so that's very comforting. More to come tomo.
all z690 and alder lake have timer issue, after reboot or on startup take 3!!! another timer resolution with different feelings.
Please, test it with bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes
+ default timer res (1ms), it will stable timer res to 1 or 0.5ms (i dont recomended 0.5)
thanks for update.
FYI, for my Alder Lake build I use Windows 11 since it's basically required because of the thread director. Windows 11 by default will run at exactly .5ms w/ timer resolution. Sometimes it's .503 or .496 on the first click, but it goes to .5ms by the second click w/ timer resolution. Windows 11 timer resolution has changed. Most of the time it goes directly to .5ms. Are you on windows 10 by chance? I've done A LOT of bcdedit testing over the years and ultimately decided that useplatformtick yes is bad. Even disabledynamictick yes appeared to add some kind of desync, especially on 11. Even though the mouse appeared to become more consistent, it added input lag for me. Maybe that's not the case on all builds but that was always the case for me. On Windows 11 specifically I get the best results w/ leaving bcdedit settings @ default.

I'll test useplatformtick yes for you regardless and let you know.
yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary.
yes, im use win10, win 11 have change with timer res.
but on win11 i have much dpc latency on usb controller.
and yes, disabledynamicktick yes ruine aim.
Hmmm, I have some thoughts on this regarding Windows 10.

My experience of Alder Lake on Windows 10 was not good. Everything felt lagged, slow, delayed, desync, etc. It did not feel responsive at all which is probably due to the fact that Windows 10 doesn't have the same thread director 11 has which was designed to deal w/ P & E cores. Simply speaking, Alder Lake was designed for Windows 11. I ran a dual boot/partition w/ both 11 and 10 installed so I could compare and 10 did yield lower DPC Latency across the board, however, the games were less smooth and input lag appeared to be higher. On 11, the games/mouse are more responsive. I've also noticed instances where my usb driver (wdf) in dpc latency was MUCH higher in 11 but still felt snappier and more responsiveness than 10. Long story short, you're going to have never ending problems running Alder Lake on 10. I would kindly suggest you give windows 11 another try because it already sounds like 10 isn't doing you any favors. Perhaps at least setup a dual boot w/ both versions installed.

Also I wanted to mention in case you were unaware, I disable all E-Cores along w/ hyper threading which significantly drops DPC latency which improves mouse feel quite a bit.

Slender
Posts: 573
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Slender » 22 Jun 2022, 16:17

kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 15:43
Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 13:46
kokkatc wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 11:03
Slender wrote:
21 Jun 2022, 23:56


all z690 and alder lake have timer issue, after reboot or on startup take 3!!! another timer resolution with different feelings.
Please, test it with bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes
+ default timer res (1ms), it will stable timer res to 1 or 0.5ms (i dont recomended 0.5)
thanks for update.
FYI, for my Alder Lake build I use Windows 11 since it's basically required because of the thread director. Windows 11 by default will run at exactly .5ms w/ timer resolution. Sometimes it's .503 or .496 on the first click, but it goes to .5ms by the second click w/ timer resolution. Windows 11 timer resolution has changed. Most of the time it goes directly to .5ms. Are you on windows 10 by chance? I've done A LOT of bcdedit testing over the years and ultimately decided that useplatformtick yes is bad. Even disabledynamictick yes appeared to add some kind of desync, especially on 11. Even though the mouse appeared to become more consistent, it added input lag for me. Maybe that's not the case on all builds but that was always the case for me. On Windows 11 specifically I get the best results w/ leaving bcdedit settings @ default.

I'll test useplatformtick yes for you regardless and let you know.
yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary.
yes, im use win10, win 11 have change with timer res.
but on win11 i have much dpc latency on usb controller.
and yes, disabledynamicktick yes ruine aim.
Hmmm, I have some thoughts on this regarding Windows 10.

My experience of Alder Lake on Windows 10 was not good. Everything felt lagged, slow, delayed, desync, etc. It did not feel responsive at all which is probably due to the fact that Windows 10 doesn't have the same thread director 11 has which was designed to deal w/ P & E cores. Simply speaking, Alder Lake was designed for Windows 11. I ran a dual boot/partition w/ both 11 and 10 installed so I could compare and 10 did yield lower DPC Latency across the board, however, the games were less smooth and input lag appeared to be higher. On 11, the games/mouse are more responsive. I've also noticed instances where my usb driver (wdf) in dpc latency was MUCH higher in 11 but still felt snappier and more responsiveness than 10. Long story short, you're going to have never ending problems running Alder Lake on 10. I would kindly suggest you give windows 11 another try because it already sounds like 10 isn't doing you any favors. Perhaps at least setup a dual boot w/ both versions installed.

Also I wanted to mention in case you were unaware, I disable all E-Cores along w/ hyper threading which significantly drops DPC latency which improves mouse feel quite a bit.
oh, im disable HT and e-cores too
u try revi os 11?

ptuga
Posts: 44
Joined: 20 May 2020, 02:06

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by ptuga » 22 Jun 2022, 16:42

This topic is becoming a joke... You guys are obsessing over things that make no difference, or actually make things worse Just install windows, install game, play game.

Like disabling HT?! :lol: I can understand disabling the e-cores, because of the ring clocks, but that's about it.
"yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary." Necessary? Your system has to be broken.

Slender
Posts: 573
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Slender » 22 Jun 2022, 16:54

ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:42
This topic is becoming a joke... You guys are obsessing over things that make no difference, or actually make things worse Just install windows, install game, play game.

Like disabling HT?! :lol: I can understand disabling the e-cores, because of the ring clocks, but that's about it.
"yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary." Necessary? Your system has to be broken.
what have you done useful for this forum besides writing such messages?

Robbo99999
Posts: 7
Joined: 05 Jun 2022, 11:32

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Robbo99999 » 22 Jun 2022, 16:55

kokkatc wrote:
20 Jun 2022, 14:02
So for me personally, Alder Lake has been an absolute nightmare, primarily because mouse feel and responsiveness constantly changes from day to day. I'm starting to strongly suspect and believe that input lag/responsiveness issues w/ Alder Lake is DDR4 incompatibility.

All of my kits are samsung b-die and not a single one of them run properly on xmp. XMP just doesn't seem to work. I have to make adjustments to system agent, dram voltage, training voltage and even termination settings just to get XMP to boot and when it does boot, the mouse can feel great one moment and then feel like it's in mud another moment. What I noticed in my situation is that my RTLS are constantly changing, so memory training just appears to be broken as well. Once I found good rtl/iol settings I'd try and lock them in but my mouse feel was always changing. Games also don't feel great at high FPS. The game just feels like it's in mud along w/ movement and mouse feel when it's misbehaving.

I strongly suspect Alder Lake issues stem from ddr4 incompatibility. You can't even get kits to run in a stable fashion @ or above 3600. I switched from a 5800x which I think I'm probably going to go back to in the short run. I also still have my 9700k/mobo I may even go back to as well.
It's probably the game server you're playing on and nothing to do with your PC. I've noticed very strange mousefeel on game servers where there are lots of cheaters/hackers in the server - apparently the hacks/cheats they use end up in the server having increased CPU usage and the server gets bogged down, which affects things like mouse feel in the game. It happens on my old PC which is a 6700K CPU, so it's nothing to do with new generation CPUs. I don't know for certain if it's the server causing your problems, but I think it's likely. Probably the same for everyone in here.

ptuga
Posts: 44
Joined: 20 May 2020, 02:06

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by ptuga » 22 Jun 2022, 16:59

Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:54
ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:42
This topic is becoming a joke... You guys are obsessing over things that make no difference, or actually make things worse Just install windows, install game, play game.

Like disabling HT?! :lol: I can understand disabling the e-cores, because of the ring clocks, but that's about it.
"yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary." Necessary? Your system has to be broken.
what have you done useful for this forum besides writing such messages?
I could say the same about your posts...

Slender
Posts: 573
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: input lag on newer pcs

Post by Slender » 22 Jun 2022, 17:08

ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:59
Slender wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:54
ptuga wrote:
22 Jun 2022, 16:42
This topic is becoming a joke... You guys are obsessing over things that make no difference, or actually make things worse Just install windows, install game, play game.

Like disabling HT?! :lol: I can understand disabling the e-cores, because of the ring clocks, but that's about it.
"yes, im always say usetick yes cause lag and desync, but on alder lake its necessary." Necessary? Your system has to be broken.
what have you done useful for this forum besides writing such messages?
I could say the same about your posts...
I will not talk about what I do on this forum, you can read my threads and find out about it yourself, but I will gladly listen to you about your affairs on this forum. Unless of course all your findings are to install a clean Windows and put everything in the bios in auto mode

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