5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

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joseph_from_pilsen
Posts: 166
Joined: 01 Apr 2022, 23:51

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by joseph_from_pilsen » 03 Jul 2022, 08:53

My theory also works, the worse server the worse results. Same hardware, CPU set to fixed 4.6ghz undervolted, GPU half used in CSGO. Using TAB occasionally (= nearly always when killed :D ). Setup: Legion 5 with 11800H, 2x16GB RAM 3200Mhz with better TRC than usual stock crap delivered (i was lucky to not get the slow ones), samsung 980 OEM version ssd, RTX3060 6GB 130W, external AW 240Hz screen. 1440x1080 4:3 stretched.
-fps_max 400, -high, low hsensitivity 0.17x3200dpi vsensitivity 0.34x3200dpi, logitech g pro x superlight mouse, windows 10

1) WaSe 20 slot with 20 players mirage 128t EU probably frankfurt
Image

2) Epiczone.sk 20 slot with 20 players mirage 128t (server with known microstuttering even out of prime time)
Image

3) offline empty mirage 128t map solo training (moving and shooting and throwing nades)
Image

Frametimes dont say so much but FPS count DIFF is HUGE! With fps_max 400 i got 350fps avg at WaSe, 372fps offline and only 275fps at lagserver! Playing very similar locations.

DPRTMELR
Posts: 165
Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by DPRTMELR » 03 Jul 2022, 13:14

yeah unless 5800x got something we don't know, most of the csgo's 'omfg lag' comes from lack of windows optimizations or poor networking that cannot be solved from users end, before the annoyance of 'input lag' on hardware level even comes into play. Even on 20+ DM I get these 0.1~0.3 sec delayed kill feeds from my shots (again, never a mouse skip)

speaking of which maybe source2 will solve? lol.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

InputLagger
Posts: 198
Joined: 13 Sep 2021, 12:39
Location: RUS

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by InputLagger » 04 Jul 2022, 02:45

joseph_from_pilsen wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 08:53
My theory also works, the worse server the worse results. Same hardware, CPU set to fixed 4.6ghz undervolted, GPU half used in CSGO. Using TAB occasionally (= nearly always when killed :D ). Setup: Legion 5 with 11800H, 2x16GB RAM 3200Mhz with better TRC than usual stock crap delivered (i was lucky to not get the slow ones), samsung 980 OEM version ssd, RTX3060 6GB 130W, external AW 240Hz screen. 1440x1080 4:3 stretched.
-fps_max 400, -high, low hsensitivity 0.17x3200dpi vsensitivity 0.34x3200dpi, logitech g pro x superlight mouse, windows 10

1) WaSe 20 slot with 20 players mirage 128t EU probably frankfurt
Image

2) Epiczone.sk 20 slot with 20 players mirage 128t (server with known microstuttering even out of prime time)
Image

3) offline empty mirage 128t map solo training (moving and shooting and throwing nades)
Image

Frametimes dont say so much but FPS count DIFF is HUGE! With fps_max 400 i got 350fps avg at WaSe, 372fps offline and only 275fps at lagserver! Playing very similar locations.
275 fps is quite enough fps for DM servers or competitive. If you have fps greater than [<tickrate> +1fps] (64 or 128), all ok. Another thing, if you have many fps and high Hz monitor, but all these
Fps and Hz's looks worst than 60Hz without "problem"

DPRTMELR
Posts: 165
Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by DPRTMELR » 04 Jul 2022, 02:59

275 fps is quite enough fps for DM servers or competitive. If you have fps greater than [<tickrate> +1fps] (64 or 128)
Maybe if you stand next to a friend playing the game at 129 or 275 fps it could look okay.(even 60 looks fantastic in this regard) Playing it won't be the same.
all ok. Another thing, if you have many fps and high Hz monitor, but all these
Fps and Hz's looks worst than 60Hz without "problem"
why not share us your results so people can know what frametime without problems looks like for csgo online gameplay.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

InputLagger
Posts: 198
Joined: 13 Sep 2021, 12:39
Location: RUS

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by InputLagger » 04 Jul 2022, 06:07

DPRTMELR wrote:
04 Jul 2022, 02:59
275 fps is quite enough fps for DM servers or competitive. If you have fps greater than [<tickrate> +1fps] (64 or 128)
Maybe if you stand next to a friend playing the game at 129 or 275 fps it could look okay.(even 60 looks fantastic in this regard) Playing it won't be the same.
all ok. Another thing, if you have many fps and high Hz monitor, but all these
Fps and Hz's looks worst than 60Hz without "problem"
why not share us your results so people can know what frametime without problems looks like for csgo online gameplay.

You can just watch twitch streamers and look at their game, how it looks like, how they looking around with mouse, how they move their crosshair, how they move their character, around game world and just compare to yours. This is obvious difference

DPRTMELR
Posts: 165
Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by DPRTMELR » 04 Jul 2022, 14:44


You can just watch twitch streamers and look at their game,
I am repeating this(you've literally quoted me) Playing the game and watching the game isn't the same, try recording your own gameplay on your pc at 60 fps and let go of your hands, it will be the smoothest thing you've seen yet
how it looks like, how they looking around with mouse, how they move their crosshair, how they move their character, around game world and just compare to yours. This is obvious difference

like both me and the other guy with laptop 11th gen's result shows that that everything is fine on single player and then it's not when we log the frames over online sessions. I installed and played about 5 minutes of overwatch to make sure i wasn't crazy, (5v5 online 1080p ultra performed about the same as 128tick utilletical except on deaths i guess)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smlHIvZ8x40
this is recording from the "problem system"

so why talk about people whos not here? come on rockstar please share us your result of frametime for ONLINE csgo so i can finally fix my "problem system".

also this isn't hltv forums, dont strawman for something you can get an indisputable proof under 5 minutes, thats fucking stupid bro.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

InputLagger
Posts: 198
Joined: 13 Sep 2021, 12:39
Location: RUS

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by InputLagger » 05 Jul 2022, 05:24

DPRTMELR wrote:
04 Jul 2022, 14:44

You can just watch twitch streamers and look at their game,
I am repeating this(you've literally quoted me) Playing the game and watching the game isn't the same, try recording your own gameplay on your pc at 60 fps and let go of your hands, it will be the smoothest thing you've seen yet
how it looks like, how they looking around with mouse, how they move their crosshair, how they move their character, around game world and just compare to yours. This is obvious difference
like both me and the other guy with laptop 11th gen's result shows that that everything is fine on single player and then it's not when we log the frames over online sessions.

I installed and played about 5 minutes of overwatch to make sure i wasn't crazy, (5v5 online 1080p ultra performed about the same as 128tick utilletical except on deaths i guess)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smlHIvZ8x40
this is recording from the "problem system"

so why talk about people whos not here? come on rockstar please share us your result of frametime for ONLINE csgo so i can finally fix my "problem system".

also this isn't hltv forums, dont strawman for something you can get an indisputable proof under 5 minutes, thats fucking stupid bro.
You're still dont uderstand anything. We talk not about smoothing, we talk about overall gameplay from twitch streamers, their game works differently and character moves different too. This is not about video codecs and 60 fps videos.

>like both me and the other guy with laptop 11th gen's result shows that that everything is fine on single player and then it's not when we log the frames over online sessions.

Every issue is different, like yours, mine or "this guy". Why do you mention this guy or yourself, like 100% proof? This is not works like this. There is no 100 % proof at anything in the Universe.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smlHIvZ8x40

You crosshair movements too bad here, like dragging thru mud

>share us your result of frametime for ONLINE csgo so i can finally fix my "problem system".

Frame time doesnt matters in terms on our "issue", I suppose. You still dont understand. You can have the best system and best peripherals and facing this problem again and again

DPRTMELR
Posts: 165
Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by DPRTMELR » 05 Jul 2022, 08:33

You're still dont uderstand anything. We talk not about smoothing, we talk about overall gameplay from twitch streamers, their game works differently and character moves different too. This is not about video codecs and 60 fps videos.
I don't even know what the fuck lol. you are gonna be the last person standing in these forums is that's truly your goal, maybe reachable by 2040. like how are we not talking about smoothing when there's smoothing process both on record and stream distribution? and probably some on the playback for audio syncs on twitch. like what the are you even trying to talk about here? you need to come back to the reality if your complaint is that 60 fps in between the palm of your hand is smoother than the game you are playing in front of you.
Frame time doesnt matters in terms on our "issue", I suppose. You still dont understand. You can have the best system and best peripherals and facing this problem again and again
Maybe it does, or it doesn't. I am proposing it does and that csgo will suck no matter what, even on optimized systems. you are saying no it's some other crazy shit that causes lag and it has othing to do with system optimization. Let me break this down for you:

me : i think csgo.exe sucks during online sessions, even for optimized systems
you: no your system is unoptimized, look at streamers streams it looks amazing
me: no here's results of my system sucking for csgo online but kicking ass for csgo single player and overwatch. can you post your system's frametime "without problems" as a reference?
you: no point because ur aimsucks lol go watch how good people play and feel it

Every issue is different, like yours, mine or "this guy". Why do you mention this guy or yourself, like 100% proof? This is not works like this. There is no 100 % proof at anything in the Universe.
but all these Fps and Hz's looks worst than 60Hz without "problem"
I have my proof that game is running poorly online and only for csgo online. my computer does not have issues rendering csgo graphics, my computer does not have frametime issues caused by other games that's not csgo that's the proof I have provided thus far. Where is your proof of anything?

You call out people are bad for asking evidence of their bullshit but all you got is more words ridiculing the other person without any proof of your own. How can you be so confident of your csgo performance when you haven't done anything beyond reading your net_graph fps values? . Because EVERYBODY thinks they have "good fps but lags and stuttery" on csgo because they do good on 64tick ulletical map and think their system is perfectly capable when they are not. But juust look at this thread "5800x vs 12700k", we are in middle of a discussion for bruteforcing a 10 year old game with 8~12 core cpus of yesteryear lol.

I am only suggesting that there is error in people claiming "good fps but lags and stuttery" of itself and that people probably never had good fps in csgo(at least not in online). That's all I am asking you to find out. You can spend 5 minutes to find out and do both us the favor or use that 5 to post some bullshit that has no sustance what so ever for the third time because of your preconceived notion that you can't have frametime issues in csgo because X says so and their "there's so much fps to begin with anyway" crap. Like you are stalling to post your results for some reason and have to bring up "laws of universe" when it would only take 5 minutes to see it for yourself and get a definitive yes or no. Do you not see what's wrong with this picture?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smlHIvZ8x40

You crosshair movements too bad here, like dragging thru mud
That's my wrist or arm becoming slightly stiff after overdraggings and not resetting my palm position, kinda feels like it happens more often on widescreen than 4:3 but that's just an excuse. But it's hilarious to hear this from someone claiming 128+1 fps is enough for perfect mouse movements in csgo.

Sorry that I am not under the delusion that my mouse is gliding beyond my control like.. an NA silver. But tbf you would've said something if I had reset my mouse positioning after every other lifts, just like how you are bitching to be bitching right now.

Please get us something real or piss off to emi forums.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

InputLagger
Posts: 198
Joined: 13 Sep 2021, 12:39
Location: RUS

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by InputLagger » 06 Jul 2022, 04:35

DPRTMELR wrote:
05 Jul 2022, 08:33
You're still dont uderstand anything. We talk not about smoothing, we talk about overall gameplay from twitch streamers, their game works differently and character moves different too. This is not about video codecs and 60 fps videos.
I don't even know what the fuck lol. you are gonna be the last person standing in these forums is that's truly your goal, maybe reachable by 2040. like how are we not talking about smoothing when there's smoothing process both on record and stream distribution? and probably some on the playback for audio syncs on twitch. like what the are you even trying to talk about here? you need to come back to the reality if your complaint is that 60 fps in between the palm of your hand is smoother than the game you are playing in front of you.
Frame time doesnt matters in terms on our "issue", I suppose. You still dont understand. You can have the best system and best peripherals and facing this problem again and again
Maybe it does, or it doesn't. I am proposing it does and that csgo will suck no matter what, even on optimized systems. you are saying no it's some other crazy shit that causes lag and it has othing to do with system optimization. Let me break this down for you:

me : i think csgo.exe sucks during online sessions, even for optimized systems
you: no your system is unoptimized, look at streamers streams it looks amazing
me: no here's results of my system sucking for csgo online but kicking ass for csgo single player and overwatch. can you post your system's frametime "without problems" as a reference?
you: no point because ur aimsucks lol go watch how good people play and feel it

Every issue is different, like yours, mine or "this guy". Why do you mention this guy or yourself, like 100% proof? This is not works like this. There is no 100 % proof at anything in the Universe.
but all these Fps and Hz's looks worst than 60Hz without "problem"
I have my proof that game is running poorly online and only for csgo online. my computer does not have issues rendering csgo graphics, my computer does not have frametime issues caused by other games that's not csgo that's the proof I have provided thus far. Where is your proof of anything?

You call out people are bad for asking evidence of their bullshit but all you got is more words ridiculing the other person without any proof of your own. How can you be so confident of your csgo performance when you haven't done anything beyond reading your net_graph fps values? . Because EVERYBODY thinks they have "good fps but lags and stuttery" on csgo because they do good on 64tick ulletical map and think their system is perfectly capable when they are not. But juust look at this thread "5800x vs 12700k", we are in middle of a discussion for bruteforcing a 10 year old game with 8~12 core cpus of yesteryear lol.

I am only suggesting that there is error in people claiming "good fps but lags and stuttery" of itself and that people probably never had good fps in csgo(at least not in online). That's all I am asking you to find out. You can spend 5 minutes to find out and do both us the favor or use that 5 to post some bullshit that has no sustance what so ever for the third time because of your preconceived notion that you can't have frametime issues in csgo because X says so and their "there's so much fps to begin with anyway" crap. Like you are stalling to post your results for some reason and have to bring up "laws of universe" when it would only take 5 minutes to see it for yourself and get a definitive yes or no. Do you not see what's wrong with this picture?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smlHIvZ8x40

You crosshair movements too bad here, like dragging thru mud
That's my wrist or arm becoming slightly stiff after overdraggings and not resetting my palm position, kinda feels like it happens more often on widescreen than 4:3 but that's just an excuse. But it's hilarious to hear this from someone claiming 128+1 fps is enough for perfect mouse movements in csgo.

Sorry that I am not under the delusion that my mouse is gliding beyond my control like.. an NA silver. But tbf you would've said something if I had reset my mouse positioning after every other lifts, just like how you are bitching to be bitching right now.

Please get us something real or piss off to emi forums.
>you need to come back to the reality if your complaint is that 60 fps in between the palm of your hand is smoother than the game you are playing in front of you.

Dide, remember this - I'm never making complaints here, on this forum, this is just my opinion and what I saw. And stop mention smoothness again again, I talk about overall game behavior, enemy movements, synchronization etc. You are talking about something else, with butthurt ofc

>me : i think csgo.exe sucks during online sessions, even for optimized systems
you: no your system is unoptimized, look at streamers streams it looks amazing
me: no here's results of my system sucking for csgo online but kicking ass for csgo single player and overwatch. can you post your system's frametime "without problems" as a reference?
you: no point because ur aimsucks lol go watch how good people play and feel it

I'm never say that you are trying to attach to my posts. Online game always heavily use system resources, like Gta 5 and Gta 5 online, for calculate and synchronize many things. This so oblivious, man!

>You call out people are bad for asking evidence of their bullshit but all you got is more words ridiculing the other person without any proof of your own.

Read my posts carefully, I'm never call out ppl are bad. And proofs of frametime are useless in terms of inputlag. Did you learn a new word "frametime" and use it as evidence on everything now? Many ppl already have a better PC and still have inputlag even with good frametime

>Because EVERYBODY thinks they have "good fps but lags and stuttery" on csgo because they do good on 64tick ulletical map and think their system is perfectly capable

Many ppl never thinks abot that aaand hey just do heashots and strafing without any problems

>But juust look at this thread "5800x vs 12700k", we are in middle of a discussion for bruteforcing a 10 year old game with 8~12 core cpus of yesteryear lol.

Yep, csgo is very cpu intensive game, especially online, with some lack of optimization needed (source 2 upgrade ). Csgo team working very bad (only adds cases) in comparison to dota2 team

>But it's hilarious to hear this from someone claiming 128+1 fps is enough for perfect mouse movements in csgo.
This is what you came up with. I only say this enough for playing. And its truly enough for correct hit calculations

>That's my wrist or arm becoming slightly stiff after overdraggings and not resetting my palm position

My term "bad" is not about you at all. This is about something, that prevents you easy aim. You shound have any problems with "heavy" "floating" aim in csgo, game works different for the rest of players.

joseph_from_pilsen
Posts: 166
Joined: 01 Apr 2022, 23:51

Re: 5800x vs 12700K competitive fps player

Post by joseph_from_pilsen » 06 Jul 2022, 13:54

I see people struggle with some terms, so:

IF you have good frametimes, it doesnt mean you have low input lag. You may have and you may not.These are 2 different things. Frametime is only one of many sources of input lag.
If you have bad frametimes, you will always have terrible input lag. This way it works. But the opposite deduction is false.

IF you play online, its normal to have slightly less FPS and the hardware is more stressed than offline/solo. Its OK to measure 350fps at good online server and 375fps offline solo. BUT if i compare 2 similar ONLINE servers with same tickrate, same amount of players and my client has at one server 275fps and at other one 350fps, and the game at the 275fps server runs blatantly heavier and shittier, there is something rotten at the server, what a wonder. Unfortunatelly rotten servers are in MEHRHEIT the same way like dumb people are more common than smart ones creating very toxic environment for the good ones. /sorry for german language/. I wouldnt wonder if many players who think the problem is on their side dont play faceit and struggle only with MM and DM and there are simply only the trash servers so they dont even know how reference server gameplay looks like.

If you think that tickrate+1 fps is enough to play, you think wrong. The input lag diminishes with every frame rendered, its source engine, rendering fps directly affects the crosshair and your "aim". At 300fps the game runs noticably better than at 129fps and at 500fps its noticable less heavy than at 300. Simply, because the aim lag is diminishing with framerate. Good compromise is 400fps hard limit to keep rendering queue not full (IF you play with unlimited fps, the input lag may be increasing due to GPU render queue overload - if you stress GPU to 100 percent, it generates input lag). So if your computer is capable to do e. g. 400-600fps its better to cut it to 400, it will save GPU from overloading rendering queue. Unfortunatelly, the player with 500fps stable will have a slight edge above you, for about a milisecond + a bit more crisp aim. But this is minimum difference, at lower numbers its much higher. 200fps player is currently nearly non-competitive, against 400fps "most common players" its double aim lag + worse clumsier aim + worse spotting (144Hz is noticably worse than 240hz + you see opponents a bit later).

Source engine has 12ms input lag. ALWAYS. There is no way, no setting how to cut it off. (valorant has 5ms with active low lag mode). The better is your reflex, the more you suffer from it because the more percent of your reaction time will be affected. If you move mouse cursor right and spot an opponent and you flick left, cursor wont go left for next 1-3 ticks (2-3 at 128t, 1-2 at 64t). And you will most probably miss your insane reaction shot because the crosshair movement since you reacted and moved mouse to flick opponent will be: 1 tick right, 1 tick nowhere, 8 ticks left. Instead of 8 ticks left you would expect. So in the end it will go 7 ticks left instead of 8 + 2 ticks delay, you will hit arm and not head and you will die. My biggest issue with csgo. At good servers its better, at bad servers its horrible and aim is heavy as hell and i feel like i need to use brutal force to win over "heavy" crosshair. Because at bad server its not 12ms. Its 20ms. Sometimes even more (greeting Valve Warszawa server). The gameplay experience increases GEOMETRICALLY so 5ms input lag vs 12ms and 20ms is not comparable so easy. The game at 5ms runs like a charm, at 12ms with noticable limits and at 20+ms it starts to be unplayable unless you play at silver rank with bots playing at TESCO computers.

Btw you PERMANENTLY compensate the input lag by your hand, your brain gets used to it and tries to. But it cost time. And it also messes up your muscle memory, you wont improve at bad server, its not the true experience. So it nullifies a bit the difference between faster and slower players. IF i play at 2-3ms sv DM (input lag below 15ms) i have much higher K:D than at slow heavy 5+ms sv DM. Because at the slow rubberbanding aim server i cant fire so fast, im not so accurate, i need permanently to reaim as it doesnt often go where i want, i cant control so much space, i cant turn so quickly because im permanently annoyed with the heavy aim which i need permantly to bother with and im very fast exhausted.

Unfortunatelly, you cant compare game experience at valorant with csgo because valorant has different movement (much slower) so you would need to port csgo into valorant engine to see the difference. Im sure, some players would be instantly worse (grindy mechanical csgo 10000h robots) and some instantly much better at valorant engine csgo (low reaction insane flickshot masters who now suffer from inconsistency).

And last thing, if i speak about 12ms "basic" source input lag, its the best scenario input lag at best hardware and settings. You need to add your monitor penalty, penalty from lower dpi if you play lower dpi (the higher dpi the lower delay of mouse), graphic card rendering latency , if you use g-sync, then also g-sync lag (yes g-sync increases input lag, freesync too but usually less). Everything counts. So in the end for an average Joe with average 240Hz screen, 400dpi "pseudopro" config g pro mouse, RTX2060 mainstream GPU and some ryzen 5X00 its 11ms in valorant, 18ms in csgo faceit if you have luck and roll a good server and 28ms at csgo at trash server.

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