60hz games locked fullscreen exclusive on a 240hz monitor

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witega
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60hz games locked fullscreen exclusive on a 240hz monitor

Post by witega » 30 Jun 2022, 10:44

Hey folks,

I am curious about the input latency with games that have a game logic and rendered locked to 60 fps using the "fullscreen exclusive" option found in most games settings.

This changes the display refresh rate to 60hz on these games, but how is input lag affected by this change? Is it worse or better than an actual 60hz panel?

Since games running in fullscreen exclusive mode aren't displaying at 240hz I wonder how latency would be affected by this.

Any ideas?

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jorimt
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Re: 60hz games locked fullscreen exclusive on a 240hz monitor

Post by jorimt » 30 Jun 2022, 11:48

witega wrote:
30 Jun 2022, 10:44
Hey folks,

I am curious about the input latency with games that have a game logic and rendered locked to 60 fps using the "fullscreen exclusive" option found in most games settings.

This changes the display refresh rate to 60hz on these games, but how is input lag affected by this change? Is it worse or better than an actual 60hz panel?

Since games running in fullscreen exclusive mode aren't displaying at 240hz I wonder how latency would be affected by this.

Any ideas?
The lowest possible 60 FPS latency on a 240Hz monitor is 60 FPS (not Hz) at a 240Hz physical refresh rate with no sync (G-SYNC off + all forms of V-SYNC off), followed closely by the lowest latency tear-free 60 FPS scenario on a 240Hz monitor, which is 60 FPS (not Hz) at a 240Hz physical refresh rate with G-SYNC + V-SYNC.

As for the latency of a physical 60Hz refresh rate on a native 240Hz monitor vs. a physical 60Hz refresh rate on a native 60Hz monitor, it depends on the 240Hz monitor in question, most of which perform scanout rate conversion at that refresh rate, which significantly increases latency when a 240Hz monitor is set to a physical 60Hz refresh rate. See:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9001&p=70797&hilit ... ion#p70797
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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witega
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Re: 60hz games locked fullscreen exclusive on a 240hz monitor

Post by witega » 01 Jul 2022, 10:20

jorimt wrote:
30 Jun 2022, 11:48
The lowest possible 60 FPS latency on a 240Hz monitor is 60 FPS (not Hz) at a 240Hz physical refresh rate with no sync (G-SYNC off + all forms of V-SYNC off), followed closely by the lowest latency tear-free 60 FPS scenario on a 240Hz monitor, which is 60 FPS (not Hz) at a 240Hz physical refresh rate with G-SYNC + V-SYNC.

As for the latency of a physical 60Hz refresh rate on a native 240Hz monitor vs. a physical 60Hz refresh rate on a native 60Hz monitor, it depends on the 240Hz monitor in question, most of which perform scanout rate conversion at that refresh rate, which significantly increases latency when a 240Hz monitor is set to a physical 60Hz refresh rate. See:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9001&p=70797&hilit ... ion#p70797
So here is a DX11 game I have in "Fullscreen Exclusive" (my display is a LG C1 with G-Sync and Game Mode enabled):

Image

The game is hard locked at 60FPS and it changes the refresh rate of my panel to 60hz (my panel is 120hz for reference).

Are you saying I could have worse input lag with this change in refresh rate? Should I change this to "Borderless Fullscreen"? Or do I need to enable "Fullscreen Optimizations" (I have it disabled for this game application).

It sounds like it's a bad idea to have these hard locked 60FPS games run in "fullscreen exclusive" if I'm reading your post correctly.

And also, can playing games in bordeless window be worse for input delay since the game isn't taking exclusive access?

Thanks for responding!

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jorimt
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Re: 60hz games locked fullscreen exclusive on a 240hz monitor

Post by jorimt » 01 Jul 2022, 12:06

witega wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 10:20
The game is hard locked at 60FPS and it changes the refresh rate of my panel to 60hz (my panel is 120hz for reference).

Are you saying I could have worse input lag with this change in refresh rate? Should I change this to "Borderless Fullscreen"? Or do I need to enable "Fullscreen Optimizations" (I have it disabled for this game application).
That 60 FPS "lock" pictured is the current variable refresh "rate" (which is dependent on the current average framerate with VRR), not the physical refresh rate.

From that readout, it looks like your physical refresh rate is still at 120Hz, and your variable refresh "rate" is at 60, which is already the lowest latency G-SYNC scenario on your particular display. I.E. 60 FPS VRR at the max physical refresh rate of 120Hz.

You'd only need to worry if the readout instead showed "3840 x 2160P@60," the final digits after the @ sign being your current physical refresh rate.

Basically, you never want the variable refresh rate/framerate to be at or above the physical refresh rate with VRR, since VRR will only function within the currently set physical refresh rate of the display.

At 120Hz, 60 FPS is ~60 frames within the VRR range.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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witega
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Re: 60hz games locked fullscreen exclusive on a 240hz monitor

Post by witega » 01 Jul 2022, 14:31

jorimt wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 12:06
witega wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 10:20
The game is hard locked at 60FPS and it changes the refresh rate of my panel to 60hz (my panel is 120hz for reference).

Are you saying I could have worse input lag with this change in refresh rate? Should I change this to "Borderless Fullscreen"? Or do I need to enable "Fullscreen Optimizations" (I have it disabled for this game application).
That 60 FPS "lock" pictured is the current variable refresh "rate" (which is dependent on the current average framerate with VRR), not the physical refresh rate.

From that readout, it looks like your physical refresh rate is still at 120Hz, and your variable refresh "rate" is at 60, which is already the lowest latency G-SYNC scenario on your particular display. I.E. 60 FPS VRR at the max physical refresh rate of 120Hz.

You'd only need to worry if the readout instead showed "3840 x 2160P@60," the final digits after the @ sign being your current physical refresh rate.

Basically, you never want the variable refresh rate/framerate to be at or above the physical refresh rate with VRR, since VRR will only function within the currently set physical refresh rate of the display.

At 120Hz, 60 FPS is ~60 frames within the VRR range.
Thank you jorimt for this information.

I went ahead and tested this again on my BenQ XL2546K 240hz display with G-Sync and V-Sync turned off.

So this is the same DX11 game I posted before, "Fullscreen Exclusive" and still with RTSS enabled with a 60FPS framecap:
Image

240hz in game so this is good

However, when I switch over to a DX9 game with fullscreen exclusive, the refresh rate changes to 60hz.

Image

Is this a DX9 issue? I tried disabling and enabling fullscreen optimizations in the game's properties to see if that changed anything, and it didn't.

If I change the settings to "Windowed" mode, I get back to 240hz...however would there be an increase in latency doing it this way, having it windowed?

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jorimt
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Re: 60hz games locked fullscreen exclusive on a 240hz monitor

Post by jorimt » 01 Jul 2022, 21:44

witega wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 14:31
Is this a DX9 issue?
The 60Hz lock in exclusive fullscreen, regardless of the max refresh rate capabilities of the display and whether fullscreen optimizations or preferred refresh rate is set to highest available, tends to be game, not API-specific.

It has only ever happened for me in Souls games, but can be corrected in said (DX11 Souls) games by disabling fullscreen optimizations.

What game(s) are you experiencing this in specifically? There could be workarounds without resorting to traditional borderless/windowed modes.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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