240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

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Cyanide_
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240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Cyanide_ » 05 Jul 2022, 07:44

Hey guys, I guess it's the right forum to seek help for my issue, which is: gameplay is not smooth especially when moving mouse around, textures are flickering (?), overall image on screen is choppy and jiterry, it feels like 60 or 80 hz instead of 240 hz mode. Audio is cracking/popping sometimes too, in menu, in youtube when adjusting volume. I'm trying my best to describe it. It has started 6-8 months ago, and is still present.

Games tested are - MW19, Battlefield 4/1/5, Rainbow Six Siege, I have also tried few singleplayer games: Doom, Metro Exodus, Stalker 1-2, some RPGs. It's all the same. The only game that was surprisingly smooth was Crash Bandicoot trilogy lol and I've played with gamepad.

My specs:

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CPU: Ryzen 5600x Cooler: Dark Rock 4 (non-PRO)
MB: MSI B550 Tomahawk RAM: 2x16 3200Mhz Crucial Ballistix (BL2K16G32C16U4B)
GPU: Palit 3070 Gamerock OC SSD: Kingston 500Gb NVME + Crucial 500Gb SSD
HDD: WD10EZEX 1Tb PSU: Corsair RM750x Case: Lian Li Lancool II Mesh RGB Black
Soundcard: Asus Xonar SE Headset: HyperX Cloud II Monitor: Acer XV253QX
Mouse: G403 Keyboard: HyperX Alloy FPS Pro
Temps are completely fine for me (CPU 50-60C, GPU 60-70, drives are 35-45, Mobo ~40C and so on), monitored it multiple times in the latest HWInfo. Frametimes, fps, 1% 0,1% all was good when I measured it with MSI Afterburner, haven't seen any big dips. LatencyMon gave me some weird results though, like 2k-6k latency for Nvidia driver.

I've tried alot of things:

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- reinstalling Windows 10/11, maybe 7-8 times already
- installing old, new drivers (GPU, Audio, LAN, chipset)
- opening PC, cleaning the dust, reseating every single cable multiple times
- changing thermal paste (temps went lower)
- latest(beta) BIOS, old BIOS, PBO on/off, CPPC on/off, secure boot/fTPM on/off, XMP on/off/custom overclock, and more BIOS tweaks
- reseting monitor settings, trying GSync (Adaptive sync in my case) on and off
- capping fps at 200-237-240-245, leaving it uncapped, low latency on/ultra, Vsync on/off in many games many times
- taking out hard drives, SSD's, fans, audio card (I use Xonar SE, integrated is always off) 
- remaking my rig on MoBo box outside of case, with no fans, only one drive with fresh Windows, only 1 stick of RAM
Maybe more things I forgot to mention. Literally ripped my rig inside out numerous times and it's still not smooth. Which makes me think it's some hardware incompability, or something with RAM/MoBo/monitor/idk what else.

Feel free to ask me anything, to do any test, measurement, any action just to fix this annoying issue.

I'm grateful in advance for any help.

DPRTMELR
Posts: 165
Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by DPRTMELR » 06 Jul 2022, 00:21

Assuming things were working at somepoint and you know what fluid 240hz feels like: Was the sonar sound card added on after the rest of the system? maybe make sure nvidia's audio driver is uninstalled. i've had some version cause me issues even while disabled. There's no obvious outlier except maybe usb port the mouse is connected on to.

if you are using your old 60hz monitor, might want to unplug that or make sure notthing 3d is going on there. there's some dwm issue that can't be solved apparently. it will slow down your 240hz to that of 60hz if theres anything going on.

try running latencymon in the background while you are playing the games for a few minutes.
- taking out hard drives, SSD's, fans, audio card (I use Xonar SE, integrated is always off)
, like 2k-6k latency for Nvidia driver.
maybe timer mismatch?
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

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Cyanide_
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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Cyanide_ » 06 Jul 2022, 02:03

Thank you for your reply.
Yea things were working great e.g. last summer I was playing just completely fine, this 240 hz monitor was perfectly smooth and even better than my old LG 144 hz panel, I can tell the difference. My brother has the exact same monitor and every time I play on his PC it's night and day.
I added this sound card like 2 years ago, integrated one is always off and I delete the drivers every single time. Tried playing without it and even making fresh w10 install with no audio card, nothing changed. Tried different USB ports for mouse and keyboard also.
Nah I'm not using any other monitor, tried that in the past (144hz + 60hz monitor), I had similar experience with that, games were not smooth until I disconnected 60hz screen.
Latencymon gives me some weird results, sometimes it's good while playing games (gameplay is choppy still), sometimes latency skyrockets on desktop with no programs launched.

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Cyanide_
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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Cyanide_ » 06 Jul 2022, 06:25

Dunno how to past images but I've found something interesting, my 1% and 0,1% are really low, what can cause that?

Latencymon gave me normal results though, like 200-300 max latency for hours.

DPRTMELR
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Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by DPRTMELR » 06 Jul 2022, 19:34

Maybe bad ram overclock? try feeding it more volt within reason or drop it down to 3000mhz and see how it fairs.

Empty lags from idling in desktop can be attributed to mismatched timer or bad realtek drivers, but there's no way you have tried all these but haven't done it raw without doing any post window install tweaks so really no clue. maybe try ltsc2018 version it's stuck on 1809. it could be windows update related from last year.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

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Cyanide_
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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Cyanide_ » 07 Jul 2022, 11:25

Excuse me what is "mismateched timer"? RAM is in XMP right now, tried stock (2666) with no luck. Maybe something is wrong with XMP itself. Intergrated audio card is off so there should be no realtek drivers, or if there are any, I'd like to know how to uninstall them.

Eonds
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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Eonds » 07 Jul 2022, 13:26

Iserverthefirelord wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 11:25
Excuse me what is "mismateched timer"? RAM is in XMP right now, tried stock (2666) with no luck. Maybe something is wrong with XMP itself. Intergrated audio card is off so there should be no realtek drivers, or if there are any, I'd like to know how to uninstall them.
The audio adjusting crackling is pretty normal. Just like If i were to turn off and on my box fan i can hear a pop and or crackle in my audio. That's unrelated to your issue. It's likely just a combination of factors and lack of knowledge on how to tune such things properly. It's a COMBINATION of a bunch of things. All motherboards have way way different settings on default. I can tell you because I've tweaked thousands of motherboards and manually scroll through them all. So I suggest dumping your bios settings and disabling all ASPM & spread spectrum settings, clock gating settings, etc. I would start with ASPM since it's easy and probably exposed without needing to dump the settings. Of course unless you have a special kit that allows you to change all of this with ease aka intel engineering level equipment that is very hard to find or expensive.

You wouldn't believe how many settings there are that impact your game. On ryzen ill give you the basic settings to disable/enable.

SB spread spectrum DISABLE, DF c-states disable, C-states disable, disable power down, disable SMEE, disable TSME, set APBDIS to 1, SoC/Uncore OC Mode Enable, PM L1 SS Disable, LCLK DPM Disable, LCLK DPM Enhanced PCIe Detection Disable, Adaptive S4 Disable, USB ecc SMI Enable : DISABLE it, ACP CLock Gating disable, ACP Power Gating disable & SRIS can be disabled or enabled (some people experience a drastically smoother experience with it enabled).

There's many settings that I can list and yes these matter and drastically alter system latency. You're welcome and anyone is free to larp and post these in their tweak guides idc. These are mostly amd specific but the general rule of thumb is c-states, power/clock gating, / encryption/ sleep states/ things which use SMI's, SSC/SS should be disabled.

DPRTMELR
Posts: 165
Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by DPRTMELR » 07 Jul 2022, 17:42

Iserverthefirelord wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 11:25
Excuse me what is "mismateched timer"? RAM is in XMP right now, tried stock (2666) with no luck. Maybe something is wrong with XMP itself. Intergrated audio card is off so there should be no realtek drivers, or if there are any, I'd like to know how to uninstall them.
I was referring to you messign with system timer (keyword hpet). try windows ltsc 2018 It's probably the closest experience you can get to windows from last year. And you try this without performing any cute tricks from online at bios level or after windows installation(that means no custom os or postinstall script, even the one you made yourself) just lan driver, graphics driver and directx stuff game forces you to install. no webcam utilities, logitech mouse suite things, hardware monitoring tools or anything of sort. don't even use CRU's - just play on native 16:9 until the you find what the problem is. oh and you can wipe out realtek drivers with newer versions of ddu.

but again, there's no way you have done everything in your posts without trying it raw that one time. so either there's a misinformation in your post or you missed something obvious.
My brother has the exact same monitor and every time I play on his PC it's night and day. this 240 hz monitor was perfectly smooth and even better than my old LG 144 hz panel, I can tell the difference.
does he have the same system spec as you do? could be important. I know amd benefits from having higher ram speed at least up until 3733 or something. maybe he has single ranked 2x 8gb rams. switch out the rams from his system and turn on xmp, and let him do the installations. this post is not making sense to me anymore.

Like you claim your 1% 0.1% was good then you found it surprising that it isn't good anyway. Was it ever good? are you certain your temps and everything else is in order now?

this isn't a interrogation but assuming you did experience 240hz working fluidly on YOUR system at some point (i am not questioning your abiltiy to tell apart 144 and 240, read it again), then you did X 6 months ago and then Y happened. only you hold the answer to this, just gotta retrace the steps. other than changes made by your decisions, 6 months ago your power supply could have degraded, a rat could have chewed parts off of your ethernet cables too, but i am sure you got those covered.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

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Cyanide_
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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Cyanide_ » 09 Jul 2022, 01:49

Hey guys thank you for your detailed responses.
These are the pics I tried to insert before
Image
Image
Image
Either AB is malfunctioning (or I setted it up badly, pls let me know), or these 1% 0.1%'s are really low

One more thing Ive noticed, when I'm idle (not moving or touching mouse, keyboard) image is overall smoother, I reseted the benchmark and went "afk" for few mins, just take a look at graphs, what can it be?
Image
There's many settings that I can list and yes these matter and drastically alter system latency. You're welcome and anyone is free to larp and post these in their tweak guides idc. These are mostly amd specific but the general rule of thumb is c-states, power/clock gating, / encryption/ sleep states/ things which use SMI's, SSC/SS should be disabled.
I tried some of the settings you listed above, and games are slightly more smooth now (idk maybe its placebo) but still far from perfect.
What would even cause this "unsmoothness" in the first place, new BIOS versions?

DPRTMELR if you are talking about "raw" Windows installation yes I've tried that numerous times, just fresh windows, default drivers, with OR without chipset drivers from AMD website, just games and launchers for them, zero spare software, and it was still not smooth, literally no changes. I've also tried unplugging case fans, audio card, hard drives (left only nvme, or one old 500 gb hdd ive tried to install windows on too) etc.
does he have the same system spec as you do? could be important. I know amd benefits from having higher ram speed at least up until 3733 or something. maybe he has single ranked 2x 8gb rams. switch out the rams from his system and turn on xmp, and let him do the installations. this post is not making sense to me anymore.
His detailed specs are: r5 3600, asus b550m plus, same ram as mine (BL2K16G32C16U4B), 2060s gigabyte, 2 kingston sata ssds + 2 wd hdds, g502 mouse, same keyboard, same monitor, as u can see his specs are somewhat inferior to mine yet still his PC runs games really smooth. IDK what makes the difference. I might take my PC soon to a friend and swap his RAM, PSU, monitor etc with mine.

DPRTMELR
Posts: 165
Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by DPRTMELR » 09 Jul 2022, 02:36

so either there's a misinformation in your post or you missed something obvious.
you benchmark your parts, find out what's not performing up to the standard.

really though? Ask your brother to record his fps to make comparisons of and get tips on system/game settings optimizations. Either you have set some unrealistic expectations of your computer (which I can't completely clear out because internet people and their pride/ego etc., and if that 2D disney game is feeling smooth then that narrows it down doesn't it) or he's just better at being a gamer.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

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