240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 15 Jul 2022, 02:42

a_c_r_e_a_l wrote:[...]
DPRTMELR wrote:[...]
Reminder about the "Be Nice" forum rule.

Although these are mostly okay posts, both of you threw in something not-nice-thing-to-say. Omit slipping in unfriendly comebacks into any segments of your future posts please. Thanks.
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DPRTMELR
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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by DPRTMELR » 15 Jul 2022, 03:17

Not precisely. Lag compensation is other thing but I have mouse and keyboard issues aswell. For the mouse it's variable sens, unexplainable accelerations and for the keyboard slow response and "stickyness" (because of it I can't peek with the deagle quickly). I am playing with the same sensitivity for years, on a cheap gaming laptop I didn't put so much efford to move cursor quickly and directly at an enemy's head because it was already in my muscle memory. On my superduper PC it's barely possible, I would say depending on luck most of the times. Before you conclude something: tried already so many mice that I stopped counting, 5 mechanical keyboards, 5 mouse pads, accel 100% off. My suspiction: induced current in the wires from radio interference generated by PSU. My PSU emits enormous amount of EMI (checked with AM radio). When I was moving the mouse the interference was disturbed, it would explain why I see the difference when I move it rapidly or slowly with microadjustments. It's somehow correlated. Can't describe exactly how does it feel.

If I find motivation then I'll record it.
If you ID'd the issue then you already have a probable solution.
Could the placement of your pc (e.g. back-end of case too close a wall) potentially have an affect on the EMI emitted by the PSU?
I only have knowledge of what I learned in highschool level, but you already know the answer to thisie super compact computer(or a wifi signal), you know it's fine even if the rear exhaust gets clogged up real bad sitting besides a thin plastered wall. you need to talk about the thickness of the wall in question before getting a yes or no answer.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Cyanide_ » 16 Jul 2022, 09:13

Finally, going to install ReviOS, then LTSC, wish me luck lol.
Some quick thoughts on your latmon results. Wow. Your system has some serious issues in regards to latency.
kokkatc are you talking about your idle latency vs my in game results? I've tried all of your suggestions, difference is negligible.

I've tried recently disabling SMT, no changes also. Maybe FPS went a bit lower (tested R6siege and BF1 so far). Still jittery/choppy image. And I'm not really gonna use SMT off anyway, I'd rather buy other CPU (e.g. new 5800x3d) or even switch to Intel.
I tested it 2 years ago. People must understand that the only option is to move and buy brand new PC. Especially those, who fight with this issue for months.
If it's some total incompability between PC parts then yes, I have no other choice but buy other parts, and still I wanna find the culprit, not just throw money towards new rig with no guarantee even.

BTW no I don't play CSGO nor I care about it and Valve also, this game is a whole another story. I'm having issues in many other games (R6 Siege, BF4, BF1, BF5, MW19/Warzone, heck even in Hearthstone or Dota2 (!) mouse movement and on screen image were choppy). Also tried Fortnite with friend just for fun and testing purposes, since this game is not really cpu/gpu intensive, and should run smoothly but no... the same story.
Could the placement of your pc (e.g. back-end of case too close a wall) potentially have an affect on the EMI emitted by the PSU?
*tin foil hat mode on*
Are you talking about "electricity-related input lag/desync"? Can it permanently damage your parts, do you guys have any info?
*tin foil hat mode off*

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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by dervu » 16 Jul 2022, 09:44

Could the placement of your pc (e.g. back-end of case too close a wall) potentially have an affect on the EMI emitted by the PSU?
*tin foil hat mode on*
Are you talking about "electricity-related input lag/desync"? Can it permanently damage your parts, do you guys have any info?
*tin foil hat mode off*
If talking about electricity caused issue, then it is more about lack of smoothness, inconsistency of inputs (muddy or ice inputs depending on day) rather than stable input lag or just desync alone, also it is more pronounced during higher power usage like gaming, but if it is bad enough you will notice it even on desktop.
Noone will tell you for sure if it damages parts or not because:
- Everyone's case might be different
- There are some reports from some people who say they had to replace whole equipment after moving to better place
- If it is necessary to replace everything - that also depends how much sensitive you are to such changes - for one person it might be enough for another not.
- There is no way to diagnose that other than just knowing how PC should behave - because all stats seem to be normal, at least the ones everyone can access
Ryzen 7950X3D / MSI GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio / ASUS TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS / 2x16GB DDR5@6000 G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279QM / Logitech G PRO X SUPERLIGHT / SkyPAD Glass 3.0 / Wooting 60HE / DT 700 PRO X || EMI Input lag issue survivor

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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Cyanide_ » 16 Jul 2022, 11:09

If talking about electricity caused issue, then it is more about lack of smoothness, inconsistency of inputs (muddy or ice inputs depending on day) rather than stable input lag or just desync alone, also it is more pronounced during higher power usage like gaming, but if it is bad enough you will notice it even on desktop.
Noone will tell you for sure if it damages parts or not because:
- Everyone's case might be different
- There are some reports from some people who say they had to replace whole equipment after moving to better place
- If it is necessary to replace everything - that also depends how much sensitive you are to such changes - for one person it might be enough for another not.
- There is no way to diagnose that other than just knowing how PC should behave - because all stats seem to be normal, at least the ones everyone can access
Hey man I've seen you before, here and on Overclock forum maybe, more than year ago I had this electricity issue but after moving houses it went away. In other house where I brought my PC for testing twice, it was also smooth. As well as in a new apartment.
But somehow after 6-7 months of moving houses, I have some weird "lag/input delay/latency" issue, it's consistent and is always here, even in my friend's place, or in house where everything was/is working fine. No floaty mouse, no desync or anything, just image being not smooth, and there is little constant delay, if that makes sense.
If it was electicity related, wouldn't it be always present, and not "come back" after 6 months of smooth fluid gaming?
If it's software/hardware related then it's easier to pin down and fix I guess, I'm up to it.

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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Shade7 » 17 Jul 2022, 02:29

ujjwal15 wrote:
14 Jul 2022, 18:10
Sorry I might sound dumb but this worked for me. So what happened was my nvidia driver latency was also higher than other drivers (others were below 0.1) and it's was around 0.3. Also in safe mode the mouse was very responsive, the difference was night and day. So i decided to turn off msi mode from my GPU and this is where it sounds dumb because i know msi is meant to reduce latency but I have a laptop with a 1070 non max-q and it has high dpc because of acpi.sys driver. I could never find a proper fix for this driver(there is one but it requires me to disable turbo). I also have a 240hz monitor and it never felt like gaming on a high refresh rate one. Also msi mode was on by default. So yeah disabling msi worked for me atleast for valorant, using 'atleast' because I didn't test it on other games.
Did you untick MSI mode for only the Nvidia GPU driver or for any other one's as well?

ujjwal15
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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by ujjwal15 » 17 Jul 2022, 13:47

First I only unticked the one for the gpu and then I unticked the one for usb driver aswell but then they both started sharing irq so I put my usb controller back to msi.

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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Shade7 » 18 Jul 2022, 02:24

ujjwal15 wrote:
17 Jul 2022, 13:47
First I only unticked the one for the gpu and then I unticked the one for usb driver aswell but then they both started sharing irq so I put my usb controller back to msi.
Hmm- I have MSI mode unticked for my 1080TI as well at the moment. My game has been performing pretty smooth with my current setup, so not going to try ticking it again.

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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Cyanide_ » 18 Jul 2022, 10:31

I'm going to mess around with MSI mode too. Any advice how to use it, let's say USB hub (?) and GPU share IRQ, what should I do?

LTSC Windows didn't work though, it was the same as regular Windows, maybe slightly faster. But image was not smooth, same choppiness that builds up over first few mins of gameplay.

Trying ReviOS now, at my own risk I'd say. Maybe Linux then. Then I might just start swapping parts e.g. buying some used b450 board and trying to build a system around that one.

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Re: 240 hz feels like 60 hz, high fps, choppy image, not smooth

Post by Shade7 » 18 Jul 2022, 11:34

Iserverthefirelord wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 10:31
I'm going to mess around with MSI mode too. Any advice how to use it, let's say USB hub (?) and GPU share IRQ, what should I do?

LTSC Windows didn't work though, it was the same as regular Windows, maybe slightly faster. But image was not smooth, same choppiness that builds up over first few mins of gameplay.

Trying ReviOS now, at my own risk I'd say. Maybe Linux then. Then I might just start swapping parts e.g. buying some used b450 board and trying to build a system around that one.
Let me know how ReviOS goes.

Where did you get a download for it? The main site download link seemed broken and just led me to an ad-spammed download site.

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