Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

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daviddave1
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Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by daviddave1 » 23 Jul 2022, 07:39

A Solid lad wrote:
22 Jul 2022, 16:44
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
22 Jul 2022, 04:19
I hope that the 500Hz Windows limit is going to be broken rather quickly by Windows 11. There's preliminary Hz-limit-raising already done by Microsoft, thanks to some of my encouraging of some of my Microsoft contacts...
I didn't even know about that limit... seems like I'll finally need to let go of 7, despite it having way better polling precision and DPC latency.
Try the New Windows server 2022 build if you into low dpc latency. I have a average of 4.90μs on it. Tested with Latencymon. Only smalldown side is that in Apex Legends you cannot get exclusive fullscreen cause u cannot edit the registry for Apex. (The Windows store folder is missing where the file need to be edited). ( other games u can get exclusive fullscreen) But from what I understand Exclusive fullscreen is fixed now in Windows. U only get a little higher inputlag when a symbol like for example the windows volume button is displayed in screen when the button dissapears so does the inputlag. Fr33thy tested it. See the fr33thy WIndows server build on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrO1YmT ... el=FR33THY
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Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by A Solid lad » 24 Jul 2022, 03:01

Thanks to both of you for the infos!

What are the benefits of the Server edition over Pro? (aside from lower DPC lat)
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daviddave1
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Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by daviddave1 » 25 Jul 2022, 02:35

A Solid lad wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 03:01
Thanks to both of you for the infos!

What are the benefits of the Server edition over Pro? (aside from lower DPC lat)
Its the most bareboned build there is plus: U don't like something in the build and u don't use it? Chances are u can just disable it. Windows Update for example. Also If u don't change anything on the build chances are very slim some update will change something in the background cause every update should ask for permission. Imo The server build holds that "fresh just installed OS" feeling the longest.

Keep in mind its based on Windows 10. So prob the max supported Hz is 500 also.
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daviddave1
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Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by daviddave1 » 25 Jul 2022, 06:47

PS if you gonna give Server a try check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-8pMUs ... ppeAllaire how to install the Intel Ethernet adapter on Server if Server don't recognize the adapter.
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Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Jul 2022, 21:31

A Solid lad wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 03:01
Thanks to both of you for the infos!

What are the benefits of the Server edition over Pro? (aside from lower DPC lat)
  • More barebones (lest it interrupt server goodness)
  • Less OEM crud (lest it interrupt server goodness)
  • Less unwanted ads (lest it interrupt server goodness)
  • Less unwanted things running in background (lest it interrupt server goodness)
  • Less automatic nags (lest it interrupt server goodness)
  • Server optimization by Microsoft (low DPC latency FTW!)
  • More CPU cycles on things that matter (more server goodness per second)
It's overkill, but if you're sufficiently wealthy and have $$$ to burn, it's a route to go.

You're paying an arm and a leg -- and sometimes it is like a Bugatti Veyron or Tesla Model S Plaid just to do your grocery errands. It's efficient for some things, but not for others.

I use Pro, not Server, but some swear by it. Being that said, I don't play esports directly but I'm more well known as an equivalent of a pickaxe/shovel supplier in the esports gold rush -- e.g. the tests used in the esports industry.

But if you want the world's fastest Windows 10 compatible OS, money no object, blank cheque, there ya go -- go FTW and go Windows Server barebones install and use it to play your Fortnite game. :D

Be warned, it might not do squat, especailly if your DPC latency is already low with a hand-optimized Pro install after finishing a lot of motherboard lottery. I don't know if Pro can get as low DPC as Server, but you'll have to go full FR33THY type stuff but it's sometimes hard to tell babies apart with bathwater.

Now... if you want something that's lean mean green out of the box, a clean minimum licensed Windows Server install is pretty crud-free (even of Microsoft nags) with minimum optimizing. You can even completely disable or reschedule Windows Update with your very own fine-granularity group policy control, and stay on LTSC Channel (infrequent updates of the most critical kind). But you must be prepared to be your own real Admin if you're going to play with such fire.

Why is Server low DPC? Compete against Linux servers etc. Microsoft needed Server to do things as fast as possible, for their data centres, so they've done a lot of DPC optimization in Server -- to try and compete with Linux servers in some markets (e.g. virtualization), since VM's often have to cross a lot of DPC latencies to get things done. Although Microsoft now "loves" Linux these days, they still have to keep Server running as scared cheetah as Windows lets it.

In the refresh rate race to retina refresh rates, 360Hz to 500Hz and up, Windows Server may make more noticeable microjitter-smoothing differences in the >500Hz future, unless Microsoft starts optimizing Pro more (or that some tweaker produces a package of proper vetted tweaks that turns Pro into literally Server-quality for esports)...

No guarantee though. But the forest of placebos definitely has more noticeable trees than it used to be when it comes to ultrahigh framerates on ultrahigh refresh rate displays (that lifts the veil of ever-tinier temporal defects) in the Amazing Human Visible Feats of the Millisecond.

In several youtuber Pro-vs-Server benchmarking, the CPU benchmarks are usually higher for Server but GPU benchmarks isn't noticeably better. Some things even run slower. But CPU is where the DPC latencies are, so YMMV, and if you're playing something that's CPU/network/etc limited, Server could pull out ahead.

You *might* find some weirdness. Application launching is slightly slower but running the application is often more efficient, by virtue of prioritizing always-running apps (servers!). It is possible to find that certain kinds of workflows such as gamestreaming (UE5) might slightly underperform by a tiny amount (like 1%) because of Servers' different disk access behaviors might not be optimized for a specific game's gamestreaming pattern. While, conversely, 8000Hz mouse and networking might outperform on Server (CPU/DPC latency bottlenecks can add up more there in a death-by-a-zillon-nanoseconds style). It's a nature of how differently optimized the Windows OS versions are.

A great example of Server bareboneness is you don't see the Windows combo search box or Cortana, it's gone (by default), the file indexing is disabled by default so less stuff automatically runs in the background to bog you down. You don't see weather forecasts or fancy screen savers.

In fact, you can even omit installing the GUI (Microsoft lets you install Server with no Windows GUI!) -- aka Server Core -- and just use Task Manager or CMD as your app-launcher. Dunno how happy Fortnite / Valorant / Overwatch / etc will be if DWM and Start Menu is missing, though, but should run with superlative low latencies if it tolerates a command-line launch. Very little Microsoft crud, even!

There are some methods to switch between GUI mode and Core mode (command line), via PowerShell. Theoretically you can install all your games with full GUI first, then uninstall the GUI to remove its overhead completely, and call it a day. But I have not personally tested that.

Be prepared to pay four figures for this version of Windows though...
It's that sort of version of Windows that many small-to-medium companies only buy one license for...

Some people can hand-optimize Pro very well though, so Server does not have the monopoly here in low DPC latencies. But for tweakers who wants to save time and have more tweaking control (from a very Server POV) -- then the time savings may be worth it for some. The time-and-effort of optimizing many consumer versions of Windows (bloatware) is so extreme by some people, some spent more than $1000 of their personal time (e.g. $25/hr times 40 hours) -- when they could have saved all that time=money by getting Server instead and doing simpler quicker minor tweaks using Server as a base.

TL;DR: Windows Server cost is usually not worth it for most for gaming, but people exist out there, where gaming on Server was felt worth it for them.
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Re: Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by DPRTMELR » 26 Jul 2022, 22:59

In the refresh rate race to retina refresh rates, 360Hz to 500Hz and up, Windows Server may make more noticeable microjitter-smoothing differences in the >500Hz future, unless Microsoft starts optimizing Pro more (or that some tweaker produces a package of proper vetted tweaks that turns Pro into literally Server-quality for esports)...
Windows gaming edition isn't gonna be a thing, is it?
In fact, you can even omit installing the GUI (Microsoft lets you install Server with no Windows GUI!) -- aka Server Core -- and just use Task Manager or CMD as your app-launcher. Dunno how happy Fortnite / Valorant / Overwatch / etc will be if DWM and Start Menu is missing, though, but should run with superlative low latencies if it tolerates a command-line launch. Very little Microsoft crud, even!
Aight who wants to start up a corporation with me D:
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Re: Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Jul 2022, 23:07

DPRTMELR wrote:
26 Jul 2022, 22:59
In the refresh rate race to retina refresh rates, 360Hz to 500Hz and up, Windows Server may make more noticeable microjitter-smoothing differences in the >500Hz future, unless Microsoft starts optimizing Pro more (or that some tweaker produces a package of proper vetted tweaks that turns Pro into literally Server-quality for esports)...
Windows gaming edition isn't gonna be a thing, is it?
Hmm, possible marketing opportunity for a high-end custom-computer builder.

A VAR can install and tweak (towards gaming priorities) a specially optimized version of Windows Server and essentially kind of call it "Windows Esports Edition".

Gonna require a lot of testing -- but you could just get by with just Fortnite / Overwatch / Valorant / CS:GO / Apex -- and if you can tweak to a good performance with high-Hz for display and mouse -- that is noticeably ahead of Pro -- preferably reputable third party testing --

Then advertising could show it off and people will pay the pretty penny, like $5K instead of $4K for a fancy top of the line neon RGB rig.

But it gotta be legit tweaking that shows superiority over Pro -- with all the right benchmarks. Given Server some times can have ~1%(ish) less framerate in some games, you have to compensate-tweak elsewhere to show other kinds of superiorities -- like noticeably lower latency and lower jitter. (Hint: Strobed jitter tests are excellent for showing off sub-millisecond jitter -- lower MPRTs make jitter more human visible)
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Re: Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by DPRTMELR » 26 Jul 2022, 23:14

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
26 Jul 2022, 23:07
"MS's teams of specialists approved tweaks for maximum gaming performance and pwnage" catchline with faker thumbing up should do it.
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Re: Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Jul 2022, 23:17

DPRTMELR wrote:
26 Jul 2022, 23:14
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
26 Jul 2022, 23:07
"MS's teams of specialists approved tweaks for maximum gaming performance and pwnage" catchline with faker thumbing up should do it.
Generally, Microsoft isn't yet well educated on the "Amazing Human Visible Feats of The Millisecond", so I doubt it. However, elements of Windows Server optimization is very useful for esports optimization, so Server will have to be the stand-in.

This stuff mainly becomes visible when MPRTs are less than the jitter error margin, so you need ultra-low MPRTs (e.g. 500Hz monitors or strobed monitors) in order to show milliseconds-league jitter that is normally invisible on 60Hz displays.

Jitter smaller than MPRT is usually lost in the MPRT motion blur, which is why a 3ms stutter is invisible at 60fps but very visible at 500fps-at-500Hz (or when impulse-driven like DyAc, PureXP or CRT at sub-3ms MPRT).

QA would need to be aware of it, and Microsoft QA isn't (yet) populated by people educated in the principles of www.blurbusters.com/area51
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Re: Windows Server has less CPU lag [Lower DPC Latency]

Post by DPRTMELR » 26 Jul 2022, 23:23

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
26 Jul 2022, 23:17
Well they want to build some kind of home entertainment empire with microsoft store right, better act fast before steam does something :p
How do I download Windows Server 2022 Standard?
Go to: Microsoft update catalog and search for "Windows Server 2022”. Evaluation versions of Windows Server must activate over the internet in the first 10 days to avoid automatic shutdown.
ohhhhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
i will post some results by the weekends probably
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